Birmingham Muslims pull their kids out of LGBT-inclusive lessons

[The Emperor of Mankind]

A primary school in Birmingham is at the centre of a furore surrounding the teaching of lessons designed to teach children about social diversity. This doesn't just cover LGBT but also covers things like ethnicity, religion & different family compositions. Some kids at the school live with one parent, some live with two parents of the same sex etc

The issue started when Fatima Shah, a Muslim parent began objecting to 'No Outsiders'; a series of lessons designed by 'out' teacher Andrew Moffat. No Outsiders reinforces the innate desire of children to be accepting and tolerant. Shah was worried that her kids were too young to be taught about these subjects; claiming that they amount to 'promoting homosexuality' and 'indoctrinating our kids to be gay' and are not 'age appropriate'. One of the other arguments she also put forward is ' children are being told it's OK to be gay yet 98% of children at this school are Muslim. It's a Muslim community'. Roughly 400 parents have barely consulted with Parkfield Community School and have instead signed a petition calling for the lessons to be dropped from the curriculum.

They've also withdrawn circa 600 kids which is approximately 80% of the pupil population in protest.

To make matters worse, Shabana Mahmood, Labour MP for Birmingham Ladywood, has come out in support of the parents, claiming there is no consultation taking place.

Shabana Mahmood on Twitter

This is actually untrue as a letter published by the school makes clear: they're planning to hold various meetings with parents throughout the next half term - presumably to let parents view the lesson material for themselves. This was the result of a meeting held roughly a week before Mahmood claimed there has been no consultation.

Additionally, Mahmood demands that the pupils' parents' religious beliefs be respected with regard to the curriculum. She is referring to a clause in certain laws passed by the government which grant exemptions from inclusive education on religious grounds; this was essentially added to ensure the Lords Spiritual did not vote down the bill on the basis that Church of England schools would have to host these lessons or ones like them.

The more cynical part of me does wonder if Mahmood's support for the parents stems in part because she is Muslim; but I need to balance this with the fact Mahmood has apparently

This whole situation does beg the following questions:

1. Given that LGBT people exist and some Parkfield kids may even have LGBTs friends/family, what age do these parents think is appropriate for the children to learn they exist;
2. Whose rights should take precedence? The rights of religious parents to ensure their children are not taught contrary to their religious beliefs or the rights of the kids to a balanced education?

 

[Ellen Brown]

I long for the day when none of these issues need discussion. People are happy and no one *****es.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

In public schools, religious beliefs should be irrelevant. If they want their kids taught according to their religion only, they can send them to a religious school or homeschool them. Sad that we allow parents to act like they own their kids but there it is.

 

[BSM1]

Whew! For a minute there I thought you meant Birmingham, Alabama. Imagine my chagrin....

 

[Mindmaster]

1. Given that LGBT people exist and some Parkfield kids may even have LGBTs friends/family, what age do these parents think is appropriate for the children to learn they exist

Having knowledge of homosexuals and bisexuals doesn't make your kids get interested. Many of my family friends are, and my children knew them their entire lives. Sexual preference has nearly nothing to do with what one is raised around -- you like frank and beans, you like tacos, or both. Nothing anyone says to you is going to change that.

But, in the end, Islam is an ***-backward primitive belief system in regard to these issues and Christianity isn't much better. Their problems stem from the fact that nothing outside of their holy books is acceptable, if one takes the most literal understanding of those books. Christianity has largely stepped away from violence and disdain for LGBT folks, but Islam is still partying like it's 1369. The motive for a Muslim parent is simple -- they don't want their children beaten or murdered for their sexual preference. So, I guess from that perspective, I understand it.

 

[sun rise]

Whew! For a minute there I thought you meant Birmingham, Alabama. Imagine my chagrin....

True. The same does apply to fundamentalist Christians.

 

[BSM1]

Having knowledge of homosexuals and bisexuals doesn't make your kids get interested. Many of my family friends are, and my children knew them their entire lives. Sexual preference has nearly nothing to do with what one is raised around -- you like frank and beans, you like tacos, or both. Nothing anyone says to you is going to change that.

*Hehehehe...he said franks and beans.....and tacos.....hehehe.*

But, in the end, Islam is an ***-backward primitive belief system in regard to these issues and Christianity isn't much better. Their problems stem from the fact that nothing outside of their holy books is acceptable, if one takes the most literal understanding of those books. Christianity has largely stepped away from violence and disdain for LGBT folks, but Islam is still partying like it's 1369. The motive for a Muslim parent is simple -- they don't want their children beaten or murdered for their sexual preference. So, I guess from that perspective, I understand it.

True. The same does apply to fundamentalist Christians.

Kind of what crossed my mind, also.

 

[icehorse]

How about this, religious fundamentalists don't get to warp public school curricula?

 

[SomeRandom]

Shows how insecure some people are. Christianity had to be, for lack of a better term, tamed by society. With the only holdouts being fundamentalists, apparently. Muslims kind of need to do the same. Branch out and live in today’s reality. Many do, but some people have to dragged kicking and screaming it seems. And if learning about being gay is enough to turn you gay, I doubt you were heterosexual to begin with. Bisexual maybe.

 

[Father Heathen]

If they dislike Western culture, why don't they stay in their homeland rather than migrate to Western nations? It's beyond arrogant to expect your host country to forgo it's own culture and values in order to accommodate yours.

 

[Shad]

A primary school in Birmingham is at the centre of a furore surrounding the teaching of lessons designed to teach children about social diversity. This doesn't just cover LGBT but also covers things like ethnicity, religion & different family compositions. Some kids at the school live with one parent, some live with two parents of the same sex etc

The issue started when Fatima Shah, a Muslim parent began objecting to 'No Outsiders'; a series of lessons designed by 'out' teacher Andrew Moffat. No Outsiders reinforces the innate desire of children to be accepting and tolerant. Shah was worried that her kids were too young to be taught about these subjects; claiming that they amount to 'promoting homosexuality' and 'indoctrinating our kids to be gay' and are not 'age appropriate'. One of the other arguments she also put forward is ' children are being told it's OK to be gay yet 98% of children at this school are Muslim. It's a Muslim community'. Roughly 400 parents have barely consulted with Parkfield Community School and have instead signed a petition calling for the lessons to be dropped from the curriculum.

They've also withdrawn circa 600 kids which is approximately 80% of the pupil population in protest.

To make matters worse, Shabana Mahmood, Labour MP for Birmingham Ladywood, has come out in support of the parents, claiming there is no consultation taking place.

Shabana Mahmood on Twitter

This is actually untrue as a letter published by the school makes clear: they're planning to hold various meetings with parents throughout the next half term - presumably to let parents view the lesson material for themselves. This was the result of a meeting held roughly a week before Mahmood claimed there has been no consultation.

Additionally, Mahmood demands that the pupils' parents' religious beliefs be respected with regard to the curriculum. She is referring to a clause in certain laws passed by the government which grant exemptions from inclusive education on religious grounds; this was essentially added to ensure the Lords Spiritual did not vote down the bill on the basis that Church of England schools would have to host these lessons or ones like them.

The more cynical part of me does wonder if Mahmood's support for the parents stems in part because she is Muslim; but I need to balance this with the fact Mahmood has apparently

This whole situation does beg the following questions:

1. Given that LGBT people exist and some Parkfield kids may even have LGBTs friends/family, what age do these parents think is appropriate for the children to learn they exist;
2. Whose rights should take precedence? The rights of religious parents to ensure their children are not taught contrary to their religious beliefs or the rights of the kids to a balanced education?

Identity politics eating itself. Christians protest but the left would ignore it and continued with the program. When Muslims protested the left caves due to increased chance of dying.

1. 12-14.

2. The parents have no rights in this matter. Take the kids to a private school. That is their right not 7th century whining.

 

[Ellen Brown]

If they dislike Western culture, why don't they stay in their homeland rather than migrate to Western nations? It's beyond arrogant to expect your host country to forgo it's own culture and values in order to accommodate yours.

This is difficult for me to understand. Here in America several different ethnic groups have immigrated here and in a generation or two are part of our culture, both sides changing the other a bit. Do Muslims resist that cultural blending, particularly in the UK, and if so, why? I left Christianity in 2003 and converted to Islam in 2005, and years later I realize that frustration with the hedonistic ways of the Christians I was with drove that.

I can see having a certain moral standard. Christians in America have created ructions over the same issues. While I think the LGBT political action pac should have rights, there are boundaries and their behavior should not be forced on others.

 

[Shad]

Do Muslims resist that cultural blending, particularly in the UK, and if so, why?

Muslim views changed due to the collapse of socialist policies and Pan-Arabism with fundamentalist Islam filling the gap. Immigrants from fundamentalist nations bring fundamentalist ideas.

I can see having a certain moral standard. Christians in America have created ructions over the same issues. While I think the LGBT political action pac should have rights, there are boundaries and their behavior should not be forced on others.

This is what happens in a public education system. Other people decide what is good for the whole nation not the individual and will teach it. The trend in the UK as it "presents"itself is secular and liberal so will teach those values.

 

[Father Heathen]

I can see having a certain moral standard. Christians in America have created ructions over the same issues. While I think the LGBT political action pac should have rights, there are boundaries and their behavior should not be forced on others.

You're right. The schools had a moral standard, which was to educate against irrational bigotry, but the parents overstepped boundaries by forcing their superstitious hangups upon the school system.

 

[SomeRandom]

.
I can see having a certain moral standard. Christians in America have created ructions over the same issues. While I think the LGBT political action pac should have rights, there are boundaries and their behavior should not be forced on others.

How is teaching children that gay people exist and should be treated humanely forcing their behaviour onto anyone?
For that matter why is it that homophobia is always framed as some twisted morality issue? Like it’s somehow moral to treat gay people as lesser or something?
How is that moral?

I understand people having prejudices and tribal behaviour. But I’m kind of over people hiding behind religion to justify racism or homophobia or whatever. If one hates gay people, at least have enough conviction to hate gay people on your own terms. (Please note I do not condone hating anyone over sexual orientation or race or religion or whatever.)

 

[Ellen Brown]

Muslim views changed due to the collapse of socialist policies and Pan-Arabism with fundamentalist Islam filling the gap. Immigrants from fundamentalist nations bring fundamentalist ideas.



This is what happens in a public education system. Other people decide what is good for the whole nation not the individual and will teach it. The trend in the UK as it "presents"itself is secular and liberal so will teach those values.

I wonder what a sociologist would say? I doubt that it's been going on like forever. Someone probably protested over the correct way to make a spear head.

 

[Ellen Brown]

You're right. The schools had a moral standard, which was to educate against irrational bigotry, but the parents overstepped boundaries by forcing their superstitious hangups upon the school system.

Well, they actually just forced their standards on their own children. I hope the school did not bow to them.

 

[Ellen Brown]

How is teaching children that gay people exist and should be treated humanely forcing their behaviour onto anyone?
For that matter why is it that homophobia is always framed as some twisted morality issue? Like it’s somehow moral to treat gay people as lesser or something?
How is that moral?

I understand people having prejudices and tribal behaviour. But I’m kind of over people hiding behind religion to justify racism or homophobia or whatever. If one hates gay people, at least have enough conviction to hate gay people on your own terms. (Please note I do not condone hating anyone over sexual orientation or race or religion or whatever.)

Agreed. I was a very small, thin, feminine child and I was beaten and harshly admonished to like grow into my perceived role. When I was 16-17 I finally weighed 100 lbs. In adult life, lots of people thought I was gay, so I know about homophobic hatred. People get these awful ideas and won't let go of them, and it is sad, so sad.

I recently found out about Navajo culture and reading about it has brought so many of my own internal conflicts sharply into focus. I wish I had known about them many years ago. It is sad to have wasted so much of my time in self loathing.

 

[Flankerl]

This is absolutely hilarious.

 

[Ellen Brown]

This is absolutely hilarious.

You find humor in the suffering of others.