World’s Top Religious Leaders Issue Rare Joint Appeal

[Dawnofhope]

I don't know, Adrian. As individuals, we can try, but as we all know, talk, unless it translates into action, doesn't really cut it. I think that there is certainly a temporary change, especially like in your city, where tragedy is so close to home. But wait five years, and will the goodwill still be around? I guess time will tell.

Call me a pessimist, but if such appeals had any chance of actually working we'd probably have world peace and no more war by now. It's a nice, friendly gesture, but I doubt it changes minds. Especially since friendship is a two way street, and not everyone will want to be your friend.

Thank you both for your responses. Its all a little too fresh and raw for me to be objective at this stage. What resonated for me is the solution is in our hands and not the leaders. Sitting around waiting for others to make the world a better place won't work. We create our own heaven and hell. We can be at peace with others or in conflict. My experience is that in taking positive steps towards others, eventually others take steps towards us. When we feel connected with others in the community and strive towards harmony we create peace in the world, even if it is our own world.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What resonated for me is the solution is in our hands and not the leaders.

It's always been in our hands, and always we resort to the least effective means of addressing such issues.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When that's the case, the Christian avoids them (if necessary)... but never kills them!!

There are more than ample examples of Christians who have killed.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I have to agree with those sentiments - this is temporary - look at the outrages that have happened just in the last six to seven years in working memory alone - one could argue that some of them were because the individuals were mentally ill or that personal issues were involved but there is a fair sprinkling of ethno-religious hate that is involved.

@adrian009 - one can hope that this interfaith gathering sets the tone for something different but history provides a different context.

I offer for your consideration a list of positive social changes since the nineteenth century that are essential to a peaceful world.

1/ All peoples are increasingly seen as equal regardless of race, ethnicity, nationality or religious affiliation.

2/ Universal education has been progressively implemented throughout the globe.

3/ The equality of men and women has been firmly established at most levels of society.

4/ There are unprecedented levels of international cooperation and agencies for socioeconomic development.

5/ Democratic institutions have become the preferred model of government at a local and national level.

6/ Slavery has largely been abolished.

 

[osgart]

Is that not an oxymoron of sorts?

And take a look at a couple of the dharmic perspectives - they come close - in my opinion - to what you are espousing

I dont think there has ever been an all inclusive religion. I dont have much experience with dharmic religions.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Who knows maybe 'a new faith' will emerge from the rubble. These are very negative, tragic times. Faith IS for friendliness. Great unifying forces move the world through faith. Faith is far more powerful than skepticism. I'm looking for a more universal faith myself. I find it very frustrating that each generation feels like a startover process, and the same tragedies get repeated again and again as if some new thing is happening by ditching faith. I mean the skeptics have totally changed the meaning of faith into that of poofery, when its confidence and reliance on those things of virtue. Faith in virtue! Let love live!

For me its high time religions adopt a more inclusive and universal faith. A faith anyone can get behind. Believers, and non believers! Fundamentalism has got to go! Hating someone for their faith is as destructive a force as there is.

I enjoy differences in people! I dont need to convert others to faithlessness.

What I see is significant numbers from all the main religions or those of no particular faith at all embracing universalism. I do agree a new faith is required. One of the challenges of all the main religions is they came about during times and social conditions vastly different from today. So some of the laws and teachings belong to a bygone era. While they all contain teachings that are universal, they generally lack the specific teachings that address the challenges of our modern era.

 

[ManSinha]

1/ All peoples are increasingly seen as equal regardless of race, ethnicity, nationality or religious affiliation.

2/ Universal education has been progressively implemented throughout the globe.

3/ The equality of men and women has been firmly established at most levels of society.

4/ There are unprecedented levels of international cooperation and agencies for socioeconomic development.

5/ Democratic institutions have become the preferred model of government at a local and national level.

6/ Slavery has largely been abolished.

I would aver that it is in spite of rather than due to the presence of religion.

Look at the US - long considered a bastion of "free society" we have the majority trying to impose their religiosity and views using the ballot box and the courts rather than outright force - but in the interest of the topic of the post - we can debate this another time

 

[osgart]

Once a religion tells its people that their beliefs are right and that the other religions are wrong, it is already too much fundamentalism. Can religions, even the Baha'is, do this? So many of the "fundamental", core beliefs of a religion is that they are the ones that have the ultimate, real truth. The others are off a little, or, in some cases, a lot. So can religions and religious people really accept and be one with people in other religions without telling them how wrong they are?

I really do think all religions would have to break and come to ultimate failure before they ever become a thing of honest self reflection. Perhaps if they all get together they will see their own dead end paths. The Dalai Lama expressed his view on being open to change in the light of scientific discovery in a book of his i used to own. If every religion had that attitude then something different would manifest itself.

Religion can really do powerfully good charity work imo.

 

[ManSinha]

Religion can really do powerfully good charity work imo

And they do - there is absolutely no doubt about that - but as I was educated - charity as a concept existed long before organized religion came into the picture

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Thank you both for your responses. Its all a little too fresh and raw for me to be objective at this stage. What resonated for me is the solution is in our hands and not the leaders. Sitting around waiting for others to make the world a better place won't work. We create our own heaven and hell. We can be at peace with others or in conflict. My experience is that in taking positive steps towards others, eventually others take steps towards us. When we feel connected with others in the community and strive towards harmony we create peace in the world, even if it is our own world.

This may happen on small scales, but unfortunately, for now -- I know you don't accept this -- the world is controlled by the Devil. -- 1 John 5:19; Revelation 12:9b; Luke 4:6b

That's why we see such defiance, like people rallying against and throwing stones at the very ones assigned to keep order, i.e., the police.

Such ugliness, like those hating others only because their skin is different.

Such idiocy....seeing some throw stones at tanks!

Most everyone wants peace, but it's always just out of reach.... it seems 'their rights' come first.

There's simply too much frustration, stress and injustice. More than just 'bandaids' are needed; gangrene has set in, and some parts need amputation!

That's why Christians pray the prayer at Matthew 6:9-10.

Take care.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

There are more than ample examples of Christians who have killed.

Yes, unfortunately. Were they really following Christ?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

This may happen on small scales, but unfortunately, for now -- I know you don't accept this -- the world is controlled by the Devil. -- 1 John 5:19; Revelation 12:9b; Luke 4:6b

That's why we see such defiance, like people rallying against and throwing stones at the very ones assigned to keep order, i.e., the police.

I agree with you that the world is effectively controlled by the Devil. But just to be clear, are you saying that people's defiance against the police or those in power is the mark of the Devil?

Such idiocy....seeing some throw stones at tanks!

Those with the tanks aren't necessarily in the right. And sometimes stones is all you have.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes, unfortunately. Were they really following Christ?

If we use the Bible as a guideline, it is solely up to god and god alone to decide such a thing.

 

[ManSinha]

Yes, unfortunately. Were they really following Christ?

So if in your opinion they were not - how do you propose they be stopped / brought to a better path? Do you have a solution that is not reliant on the interference of a non transactional deity?

 

[osgart]

And they do - there is absolutely no doubt about that - but as I was educated - charity as a concept existed long before organized religion came into the picture

I dont doubt that this is the case. But how many non religious charity institutions ever existed? And do they outperform religious charities?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

are you saying that people's defiance against the police or those in power is the mark of the Devil?

No, not necessarily. But it's a spirit (attitude) of rebelliousness that certainly isn't Godly! -- Romans 13:1-2

Those with the tanks aren't necessarily in the right. And sometimes stones is all you have.

That's for sure! But it is idiotic, fighting a tank w/ rocks. (Try another way, at another time....you'll live longer.)

 

[Dawnofhope]

This may happen on small scales, but unfortunately, for now -- I know you don't accept this -- the world is controlled by the Devil. -- 1 John 5:19; Revelation 12:9b; Luke 4:6b

That's why we see such defiance, like people rallying against and throwing stones at the very ones assigned to keep order, i.e., the police.

Such ugliness, like those hating others only because their skin is different.

Such idiocy....seeing some throw stones at tanks!

Most everyone wants peace, but it's always just out of reach.... it seems 'their rights' come first.

There's simply too much frustration, stress and injustice. More than just 'bandaids' are needed; gangrene has set in, and some parts need amputation!

That's why Christians pray the prayer at Matthew 6:9-10.

Take care.

Thanks @Hockeycowboy

As you know Baha'is don't believe in a literal Satan or Devil, but see Satan as being a symbol of man's lower nature.

I see positive changes since the nineteenth century and it confirms for me the peace foretold by the Israelite prophets. During the twentieth century there were at least three distinct periods where humanity made significant strides towards being united as one people. The first was after WWI with the formation of the league of nations. Unfortunately the provisions of this first international body was fatally flawed. The American president Woodrow Wilson was a visionary but the other nations were not ready to adopt key aspects of his proposal. This inevitably led to WWII which was arguably the most destructive war in human history.

From the carnage arose the United Nations that managed to overcome many of the deficiencies of the aborted league of nations. Along with this international body, agencies were established for greater economic cooperation and tribunals to adjudicate on international matters. As colonialism lost its grip many nations were free for the first time to have a much greater say as to how to run their affairs.

Unfortunately the cold war followed with a sizeable portion of the worlds population (about one third) opting towards communist inspired governments. This led to unprecedented violations of human rights in some places and economic stagnation for most of these regimes. With the collapse of communism in the late 1980s followed another period of renewed optimism and resurgence in global cooperation.

Unfortunately the period in which we currently live has seen the rise of nationalism, racism and chaos. The mosque shootings in Christchurch reflect that but great unity has emerged in New Zealand as we grapple with the aftermath.

There appears to be many currents of human activity pulling people apart, rather than uniting us. It seems quite likely world affairs will deteriorate further with another global catastrophe in our midst. However, I would anticipate that as with the two world wars and the cold war, a greater level of international cooperation will emerge.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

No, not necessarily. But it's a spirit (attitude) of rebelliousness that certainly isn't Godly! -

I think there are (at least) two kinds of rebelliousness: a good and a bad kind. The good rebellion is that against the institutions of the Devil, who holds the reins of power in the world. The bad rebellion is that against (the Supreme) God.

But it is idiotic, fighting a tank w/ rocks.

I imagine those throwing stones at tanks do not genuinely believe they can beat the tanks, it is more an act of defiance, which as above can be a good thing.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

So if in your opinion they were not....

The Bible's words...Jesus' words. (Not my opinion) Matthew 5:44;

John 15:10,12,14,17.

In fact, Jesus said that that's what ID's his followers (John 13:34-35), their love for their brothers. And God does 'transact' on that.

Take care.

 

[dfnj]

There are more than ample examples of Christians who have killed.

And more examples of Christians helping others in need. The problem with prejudice is you only see the World through a single lens of meaning.