The Four Friends

[Willamena]

Four friends go to visit the Eiffel Tower in France for the first time. After taking the tour and exploring the structure, they compare notes.

The first one says of the tower, "I saw a gigantic structure made of wrought-iron, a marvel of engineering, lit up last night with thousands of lights. Quite the spectacle!"

The second one says, "I saw a colossal waste of money and time, poor architectural design, and the view from the top was a disappointment."

The third one says, "I saw a human endeavour that has stood the test of time. It stands along with the Statue of Liberty and the Pyramids of Egypt as symbols of great civilizations. It left me hopeful about the future of mankind."

Then the fourth one says, "I saw the bold spirit of a nation of artists, engineers, and architects. They may have had their differences about its construction, but the end result is iconic of France itself."

Do they express opinion or fact?

 

[Revoltingest]

Hmmm.....opinion!
Did I get it right?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Four friends go to visit the Eiffel Tower in France for the first time. After taking the tour and exploring the structure, they compare notes.

The first one says of the tower, "I saw a gigantic structure made of wrought-iron, a marvel of engineering, lit up last night with thousands of lights. Quite the spectacle!"

The second one says, "I saw a colossal waste of money and time, poor architectural design, and the view from the top was a disappointment."

The third one says, "I saw a human endeavour that has stood the test of time. It stands along with the Statue of Liberty and the Pyramids of Egypt as symbols of great civilizations. It left me hopeful about the future of mankind."

Then the fourth one says, "I saw the bold spirit of a nation of artists, engineers, and architects. They may have had their differences about its construction, but the end result is iconic of France itself."

Do they express opinion or fact?

All facts. Ignore Rev's opinion. Nothing any of them said was not factual, and they did not contradict each other.

 

[Nakosis]

Four friends go to visit the Eiffel Tower in France for the first time. After taking the tour and exploring the structure, they compare notes.

The first one says of the tower, "I saw a gigantic structure made of wrought-iron, a marvel of engineering, lit up last night with thousands of lights. Quite the spectacle!"

The second one says, "I saw a colossal waste of money and time, poor architectural design, and the view from the top was a disappointment."

The third one says, "I saw a human endeavour that has stood the test of time. It stands along with the Statue of Liberty and the Pyramids of Egypt as symbols of great civilizations. It left me hopeful about the future of mankind."

Then the fourth one says, "I saw the bold spirit of a nation of artists, engineers, and architects. They may have had their differences about its construction, but the end result is iconic of France itself."

Do they express opinion or fact?

Both, facts and opinion about stated facts.

 

[BSM1]

Four friends go to visit the Eiffel Tower in France for the first time. After taking the tour and exploring the structure, they compare notes.

The first one says of the tower, "I saw a gigantic structure made of wrought-iron, a marvel of engineering, lit up last night with thousands of lights. Quite the spectacle!"

The second one says, "I saw a colossal waste of money and time, poor architectural design, and the view from the top was a disappointment."

The third one says, "I saw a human endeavour that has stood the test of time. It stands along with the Statue of Liberty and the Pyramids of Egypt as symbols of great civilizations. It left me hopeful about the future of mankind."

Then the fourth one says, "I saw the bold spirit of a nation of artists, engineers, and architects. They may have had their differences about its construction, but the end result is iconic of France itself."

Do they express opinion or fact?

You missed the fifth friend that hit the vin ordinaire waaay too much and simply didn't care...just sayin'. But, of course, that's just my opinion.

 

[Polymath257]

The statement that it is a gigantic structure made of wrought iron and was lit up by lights is a statement of fact (mostly--gigantic is a matter of opinion).

The rest are opinions.

 

[viole]

Four friends go to visit the Eiffel Tower in France for the first time. After taking the tour and exploring the structure, they compare notes.

The first one says of the tower, "I saw a gigantic structure made of wrought-iron, a marvel of engineering, lit up last night with thousands of lights. Quite the spectacle!"

The second one says, "I saw a colossal waste of money and time, poor architectural design, and the view from the top was a disappointment."

The third one says, "I saw a human endeavour that has stood the test of time. It stands along with the Statue of Liberty and the Pyramids of Egypt as symbols of great civilizations. It left me hopeful about the future of mankind."

Then the fourth one says, "I saw the bold spirit of a nation of artists, engineers, and architects. They may have had their differences about its construction, but the end result is iconic of France itself."

Do they express opinion or fact?

In my opinion, they express opinions.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Revoltingest]

The statement that it is a gigantic structure made of wrought iron and was lit up by lights is a statement of fact (mostly--gigantic is a matter of opinion).

The rest are opinions.

But that statement also included....
"marvel of engineering" & "Quite the spectacle!"

 

[Polymath257]

But that statement also included....
"marvel of engineering" & "Quite the spectacle!"

Which is why I left those phrases out....those are opinions.

 

[Revoltingest]

All facts. Ignore Rev's opinion. Nothing any of them said was not factual, and they did not contradict each other.

Non-contradiction doesn't mean factuality.
Would these consistent claims then be factual.....
- Jesus was a pretty prophet.
- Ctthulhu is magnificent.

 

[Revoltingest]

Which is why I left those phrases out....those are opinions.

But they were in first statement, which affects judging it as opinion or fact.

Note the OP's question....
"Do they express opinion or fact?"
Because both "opinion" & "fact" were singular, this suggested to me
that we weren't to separate each of the 4 claims into individual components.

How's that for a tedious complication?

 

[youknowme]

Four friends go to visit the Eiffel Tower in France for the first time. After taking the tour and exploring the structure, they compare notes.

The first one says of the tower, "I saw a gigantic structure made of wrought-iron, a marvel of engineering, lit up last night with thousands of lights. Quite the spectacle!"

The second one says, "I saw a colossal waste of money and time, poor architectural design, and the view from the top was a disappointment."

The third one says, "I saw a human endeavour that has stood the test of time. It stands along with the Statue of Liberty and the Pyramids of Egypt as symbols of great civilizations. It left me hopeful about the future of mankind."

Then the fourth one says, "I saw the bold spirit of a nation of artists, engineers, and architects. They may have had their differences about its construction, but the end result is iconic of France itself."

Do they express opinion or fact?

Facts are intersubjectively verifiable, so what they saw was not entirely factual.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Non-contradiction doesn't mean factuality.
Would these consistent claims then be factual.....
- Jesus was a pretty prophet.
- Ctthulhu is magnificent.

They each told us what they saw, not what actually was. They didn't say what it was, only what they saw. Since we have no reason to think they were lying, it was factual.

 

[Revoltingest]

They each told us what they saw, not what actually was. They didn't say what it was, only what they saw. Since we have no reason to think they were lying, it was factual.

They didn't actually see some of the things they described,
eg, "marvel" is an aesthetic judgement.
Typical kitten reasoning....you'll see the light when you become a cat.

 

[YmirGF]

Four friends go to visit the Eiffel Tower in France for the first time. After taking the tour and exploring the structure, they compare notes.

The first one says of the tower, "I saw a gigantic structure made of wrought-iron, a marvel of engineering, lit up last night with thousands of lights. Quite the spectacle!"

The second one says, "I saw a colossal waste of money and time, poor architectural design, and the view from the top was a disappointment."

The third one says, "I saw a human endeavour that has stood the test of time. It stands along with the Statue of Liberty and the Pyramids of Egypt as symbols of great civilizations. It left me hopeful about the future of mankind."

Then the fourth one says, "I saw the bold spirit of a nation of artists, engineers, and architects. They may have had their differences about its construction, but the end result is iconic of France itself."

Do they express opinion or fact?

Opinion supported by facts?

 

[sun rise]

Four friends go to visit the Eiffel Tower in France for the first time. After taking the tour and exploring the structure, they compare notes.

The first one says of the tower, "I saw a gigantic structure made of wrought-iron, a marvel of engineering, lit up last night with thousands of lights. Quite the spectacle!"

The second one says, "I saw a colossal waste of money and time, poor architectural design, and the view from the top was a disappointment."

The third one says, "I saw a human endeavour that has stood the test of time. It stands along with the Statue of Liberty and the Pyramids of Egypt as symbols of great civilizations. It left me hopeful about the future of mankind."

Then the fourth one says, "I saw the bold spirit of a nation of artists, engineers, and architects. They may have had their differences about its construction, but the end result is iconic of France itself."

Do they express opinion or fact?

The "Blind Men and the Elephant" teaching story using the Eiffel Tower instead of an elephant. That's cool.

 

[Brickjectivity]

They didn't actually see some of the things they described,
eg, "marvel" is an aesthetic judgement.
Typical kitten reasoning....you'll see the light when you become a cat.

'Marvel' in this case is a qualitative measurement. You simply don't trust the observer, and by your methods all facts are merely opinions rendering your answer meaningless.

 

[Revoltingest]

Opinion supported by facts?

On RF, the preferred relationship is facts supported by opinions.

 

[Revoltingest]

'Marvel' in this case is a qualitative measurement. You simply don't trust the observer, and by your methods all facts are merely opinions rendering your answer meaningless.

Even if I trust the observer, "marvel" is still an aesthetic judgement, ie, an opinion.
It differs from a claim like "wrought iron", which is very precisely & quantitatively
defined, eg, the percentage of carbon in the iron matrix.

 

[ChristineM]

Four friends go to visit the Eiffel Tower in France for the first time. After taking the tour and exploring the structure, they compare notes.

The first one says of the tower, "I saw a gigantic structure made of wrought-iron, a marvel of engineering, lit up last night with thousands of lights. Quite the spectacle!"

The second one says, "I saw a colossal waste of money and time, poor architectural design, and the view from the top was a disappointment."

The third one says, "I saw a human endeavour that has stood the test of time. It stands along with the Statue of Liberty and the Pyramids of Egypt as symbols of great civilizations. It left me hopeful about the future of mankind."

Then the fourth one says, "I saw the bold spirit of a nation of artists, engineers, and architects. They may have had their differences about its construction, but the end result is iconic of France itself."

Do they express opinion or fact?

They each (except the 2nd one) expressed their opinion of the facts as they saw them.

As for the 2nd on, he stated his opinion but the facts are the Eiffel tower has consistently made a profit, currently a yearly net of about €78 million. I doubt a poor design of the weight vs height of the tower would have stood the test of time.