The Four Friends

[Revoltingest]

Those 900(ish) year old architects didnt quite have access to the same ground penetrating technology available today.

Lets face it, what architecturally designed building put up today is going to be still around in 850(ish) years.

Other architects managed to make buildings which didn't want to tip over.
And well designed buildings today typically don't have the goal of lasting
for so many centuries. Designers observe that many will become obsolete
due to factors like....
- Increasing land value in the future will mean tear down for a replacement
with more tenants per acre.
- Technology & tenant market changes mean they'll become obsolete.

There are actually buildings designed to last only a few decades, eg,
self storage buildings are planned for a business in an area where money
can be made until the land becomes more valuable, & has some higher
& better use. It's called "land warehousing" in the business.

Performance over a limited life is often good design.
A great example is a car. If it were designed last a million miles
for the average driver, it would have to be much more expensive.
But by the time it reached that mark, it should've been replaced
with something safer, more fuel efficient, & with more features.
And average drivers will want a different care before then anyway.

 

[ChristineM]

Other architects managed to make buildings which didn't want to tip over.
And well designed buildings today typically don't have the goal of lasting
for so many centuries. Designers observe that many will become obsolete
due to factors like....
- Increasing land value in the future will mean tear down for a replacement
with more tenants per acre.
- Technology & tenant market changes mean they'll become obsolete.

There are actually buildings designed to last only a few decades, eg,
self storage buildings are planned for a business in an area where money
can be made until the land becomes more valuable, & has some higher
& better use. It's called "land warehousing" in the business.

Performance over a limited life is often good design.
A great example is a car. If it were designed last a million miles
for the average driver, it would have to be much more expensive.
But by the time it reached that mark, it should've been replaced
with something safer, more fuel efficient, & with more features.
And average drivers will want a different care before then anyway.

All very nice but not really relevant to a 850 year old tower and the available knowledge available to an architect of the period

In italy just about any cluster of more than a dozen houses has or had a tower. I say had because many have, for one reason or another have fallen down. The tower of Pisa, with care and attention is still standing.

 

[Revoltingest]

All very nice but not really relevant to a 850 year old tower and the available knowledge available to an architect of the period

Perhaps it's discomforting to admit that something you like is badly designed (in one way).
Let me assure that I like some things which I consider badly designed in some way.
"Bad design" is just an attribute, one of many which an object can have.

In italy just about any cluster of more than a dozen houses has or had a tower. I say had because many have, for one reason or another have fallen down. The tower of Pisa, with care and attention is still standing.

We who collect old machinery enjoy bad designs.
They're interesting, & they have their place in history.

 

[ChristineM]

Perhaps it's discomforting to admit that something you like is badly designed (in one way).
Let me assure that I like some things which I consider badly designed in some way.
"Bad design" is just an attribute, one of many which an object can have.

We who collect old machinery enjoy bad designs.
They're interesting, & they have their place in history.

I dont actually like towers. We only went to see it because we had a spare half day after visiting the (fairly) close by da Vinci museum.

The design is actually superb, the ground it was built on is not. I do not blame the architect for ignorance of ground conditions when no means of analysis was available to whoever it was at that time. It was essentially a pot luck approach to citing buildings.

 

[Augustus]

On RF, the preferred relationship is facts supported by opinions.

I think you'll find it is statements supported by insults.

Awa' an bile yer heid, ya glaikit gowk.

 

[Revoltingest]

I dont actually like towers. We only went to see it because we had a spare half day after visiting the (fairly) close by da Vinci museum.

The design is actually superb, the ground it was built on is not. I do not blame the architect for ignorance of ground conditions when no means of analysis was available to whoever it was at that time. It was essentially a pot luck approach to citing buildings.

By "design" I refer to much more than mere appearance.
Are you familiar with the work of Raymond Loewy?
He's one of my favorite industrial designers for making
attractive appearance result from function, particularly
human interaction.

 

[ChristineM]

By "design" I refer to much more than mere appearance.
Are you familiar with the work of Raymond Loewy?
He's one of my favorite industrial designers for making
attractive appearance result from function, particularly
human interaction.

Is he the guy that designs airports with no exit signs because they are not functional and drain pipes exposed in full view and colour coded because they are functional?

No designer can make a perfect job if they do dot have all the data. 850 years ago the ground data was not available.

 

[Revoltingest]

Is he the guy that designs airports with no exit signs because they are not functional and drain pipes exposed in full view and colour coded because they are functional?

Airports are more civil engineering.
Loewy designed products, eg, Studebaker Loewy Coup & Avanti bodies.

No designer can make a perfect job if they do dot have all the data. 850 years ago the ground data was not available.

Hence a reason for bad design.

 

[ChristineM]

Airports are more civil engineering.
Loewy designed products, eg, Studebaker Loewy Coup & Avanti bodies.

Hence a reason for bad design.

Nope not heard of him

Not bad design at the time it was designed.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nope not heard of him

Not bad design at the time it was designed.

In pre-wind tunnel days, I recall that the Avanti was quiet & relatively
aerodynamic for such a fast car (super-charged V8 was available).

When he redesigned a cream separator, he made the appearance
sleek & modern (for the day) while simultaneously making it much
easier to keep clean.

A designer must consider so much.
When I designed a new air brake control system for
GM heavy trucks, some of the things I considered.....
- Meet FMVSS 121 (regulation)
- Be easier to service.
Thes meant taking into account what mechanics need to do, & how they approach diagnosing a problem.
- Easier to diagnose problems.
- Be easier to manufacture, eg, fool-proof assembly, damn fool-proof assembly, simple assembly, easy to manufacture, obvious assembly, maximizing standard parts.
- Be more reliable than current systems.
- Function exactly as the driver expected.
- As failsafe as possible.
- Corrosion resistance.
- Compatible with all environments.
- Minimize taking up space behind the dashboard.
- Resistant to sabotage.
- Reliable performance & durability in a high G environment.
- Better documentation than was normal. (I was the first engineer at GM to use ANSI Y14.5 drafting standards for pneumatic circuits).
- Compatible with all anti-lock braking systems.
- Be superior to the competition in all ways.
- And it had to look good....like it was the ultimate in simplicity, quality, serviceability, durability, & ease of understanding.

 

[ChristineM]

In pre-wind tunnel days, I recall that the Avanti was quiet & relatively
aerodynamic for such a fast car (super-charged V8 was available).

And the austin allegro was more aerodynamic in reverse. What is the point of strawmen?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

None of them pointed out that both the statue of liberty and the Eifell tower were designed and
made by the French. And are French ikons.

 

[Revoltingest]

What is the point of strawmen?

They're so much fun to burn?
Wickermen are too.

 

[ChristineM]

They're so much fun to burn?
Wickermen are too.

Only when they are not damp

 

[ChristineM]

None of them pointed out that both the statue of liberty and the Eifell tower were designed and
made by the French. And are French ikons.

A lot of things made by the french are icons but not necessarily for the right reasons... Le Périphérique and the pyramid at the louvre for instance.

Both blights on the landscape

 

[columbus]

We who collect old machinery enjoy bad designs.
They're interesting, & they have their place in history.

I sincerely hope that modern USA youngsters appreciate the depth of this insightful post. It helps explain the current state of federal politics.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

I sincerely hope that modern USA youngsters appreciate the depth of this insightful post. It helps explain the current state of federal politics.
Tom

I recall seeing a piece of literature (catalog) on ebay for an engine.
I bid, but it went high.
The engine was 1900 vintage.
It had a stationary piston, & a sliding cylinder.
The cylinder had porcupine quill style cooling....lots'o pointy prongs sticking out.
It would be horribly impractical & dangerous.
Yes.....reminds me of politics in DC too.

 

[columbus]

It would be horribly impractical & dangerous.

The smartest kids can probably read "electoral college" in between the lines.

But probably not the richest kids.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

The smartest kids can probably read "electoral college" in between the lines.

But probably not the richest kids.
Tom

Aye, the EC won't always work wonderfully for dodging the bullet as it did in 2016.

 

[Willamena]

None of them pointed out that both the statue of liberty and the Eifell tower were designed and
made by the French. And are French ikons.

That's because it's spelled "icon."