Okay. I got my physical bible out

[david-david]

Maybe a better response is if the spirit saves and not the flesh, the spirit would need to be sacrificed. The flesh (sin) doesnt save so it's temporary death does nothing.

Maybe a better response is that God is pleased and well enough that (J)esus Christ was/is That Sacrifice which does not need to be offered up again.

 

[74x12]

That makes sense. Im thinking death is the sacrifice. Anyone can give their life to suffer (many do) regardless the intensity. When someone gives their life for a cause, that is completely different. Humans are used to suffering but not many are of death. Psychologically and physiologically speaking.

Yet many people would choose suicide over torture. In fact it's not uncommon. People committing suicide to avoid suffering.

That I dont understand. By concept, yes. Literal or laymans terms, no. Youd have to compare it to a present, real world experience.

Everyone is condemned to death after Adam and Eve sinned. By being the children of Adam and Eve we all are born into a trap. Because God said to them "you will surely die" And that also pertains to all their descendants.

Jesus blood makes covering for our sins because it satisfies justice in God's eyes. The price is paid for our sins. So we don't have to die. Every time someone repents of their sins; then God remembers the blood of Jesus and so forgives them because their sin is paid for.

That's why Paul said that Jesus blood speaks a better word than Abel's blood. Abel's blood cried out from the ground to God for vengeance against Cain(his killer). But Jesus' blood speaks forgiveness.

Jesus blood provides a loophole. A way for God's justice to be satisfied but also His love. In other words God's love prevailed over His sense of justice.

What does it mean to be the First?

Do you understand the concept of being part of the body of Christ? If you are in the body of Christ; then you will rise from the dead because He rose from the dead. That's how Jesus resurrection extends to us. This is why Jesus said "I am the resurrection and the life".

 

[74x12]

I'm tired of you Christian guys bragging on the torture beating of Jesus and claim it as unique and Jesus the only one who allowed himself to be whipped to death.There were hundreds of Messiahs in the Messiah movement who died and was sacruficed the same way Jesus was who died for the sins of others.

Hundreds of messiahs? Okay name one who died for our sins other than Jesus.

 

[Riders]

Yet many people would choose suicide over torture. In fact it's not uncommon. People committing suicide to avoid suffering.

Everyone is condemned to death after Adam and Eve sinned. By being the children of Adam and Eve we all are born into a trap. Because God said to them "you will surely die" And that also pertains to all their descendants.

Jesus blood makes covering for our sins because it satisfies justice in God's eyes. The price is paid for our sins. So we don't have to die. Every time someone repents of their sins; then God remembers the blood of Jesus and so forgives them because their sin is paid for.

That's why Paul said that Jesus blood speaks a better word than Abel's blood. Abel's blood cried out from the ground to God for vengeance against Cain(his killer). But Jesus' blood speaks forgiveness.

Jesus blood provides a loophole. A way for God's justice to be satisfied but also His love. In other words God's love prevailed over His sense of justice.

Do you understand the concept of being part of the body of Christ? If you are in the body of Christ; then you will rise from the dead because He rose from the dead. That's how Jesus resurrection extends to us. This is why Jesus said "I am the resurrection and the life".

AHA YES! The blood the blood the blood I got get how obsessed yall are with his blood. Remember this song? What can wash away my sins nothing but the blood of Jesus! Yes well I know my higher power does not want me to make an idol out of blood.

 

[74x12]

AHA YES! The blood the blood the blood I got get how obsessed yall are with his blood. Remember this song? What can wash away my sins nothing but the blood of Jesus! Yes well I know my higher power does not want me to make an idol out of blood.

What? The higher power you just decide on in your own mind? I mean how do you determine it?

 

[Earthling]

Thank you!

Jesus died by torture. This was thousands of years ago. When you are saved by a bus you are saved at that present moment. However, if you say you are saved by a bus today but that bus only existed hundreds of years ago, that wouldnt make sense.

Even if the bus was in Loundon and you were in China, you still wont be saved by the us. You can be saved by concept, yes. Develop a spiritual life and faith that you are saved by the bus. But at the end, it didnt save you.

Id see jesus in the same light. Since he isnt god, that makes the question more confusing. One. He/bus cant save you in this present moment without your interaction and faith that it is true, and two since he cant save you at present, his tortue may mean some something to you, but the actual salvation by tortue maks no sense than the bus driver purposely swerving to prevent your death without you being present.

Kinda see the complication?

Not really, because the torture Jesus died from isn't an issue. He died. That's all that matters.

Secondly, death was then and it is now. Adam was meant to live forever. Everyone dies because of his sin. Jesus nullified that sin for those who wish to live forever. Then and now and always.

 

[Riders]

Hundreds of messiahs? Okay name one who died for our sins other than Jesus.

All of the ones who were in the Jewish Messiah movement at the time and got crucfied by the roman government which was a lot. Not to mention Egyptian and Greek Gods as well, Cleopatra also laid her life down for Egypt.

 

[Riders]

Not really, because the torture Jesus died from isn't an issue. He died. That's all that matters.

Secondly, death was then and it is now. Adam was meant to live forever. Everyone dies because of his sin. Jesus nullified that sin for those who wish to live forever. Then and now and always.

He is not the only way.

 

[Earthling]

Actually, the Logos is very much part of the Trinity. "In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God".

So the Logos was the god with whom the God was?

 

[Riders]

What? The higher power you just decide on in your own mind? I mean how do you determine it?

The Muslim and Jewish and Noahide God of the old testament. I worship one God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

we were talking about human sacrifice here. Jesus' sacrifice was indeed a 'human sacrifice,' though He allowed it for Himself.

there is, of course, a selection of critics who wouldn't call His sacrifice a sacrifice unless He utterly ceased to exist....and even then it wouldn't have been enough.

Critics? Uterally? Well, the latter, we are thinking death as a sacrifice not his suffering. Both of you have a good points rather than one over another.

But if jesus is a full human, he is no longer perfect. Jesus would die like the rest of us and he would be resurrected with the rest of us (those who are christian).

His sacrifice would be that of a prophet, as other prophets for their god. Whether he was first or unique or last doesnt matter.

But, yeah, the ultimate sacrifice is death. You can heal from suffering but not from death. Unless jesus is resurrected, he would have a full earthly sacrifice. In other words, if he actually sacrificed himself without joining god as his real self, he wouldnt exist anymore. The jesus christians speak with isnt the real one who sacrifice himself because he no longer lives to hear their prayers.

As long as he can hear your prayers, he wasnt truely sacrified. Suffering, yes. Death, no.

 

[74x12]

All of the ones who were in the Jewish Messiah movement at the time and got crucfied by the roman government which was a lot. Not to mention Egyptian and Greek Gods as well, Cleopatra also laid her life down for Egypt.

Well the Messiah is only for the Jewish religion. It has nothing to do with Egyptian or Greek gods. But seriously, although there were a few would be messiahs that certainly died. It was never "for our sins". That's only Jesus. So, can you prove your claim that other would be messiah's died for people's sins? Or did they just die fighting the Romans or whatever?

 

[Earthling]

He is not the only way.

Yeah, he kind of is. Can you name another?

 

[74x12]

The Muslim and Jewish and Noahide God of the old testament. I worship one God.

Which God of the Jews demands blood sacrifices. You know this right?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Actually, the Logos is very much part of the Trinity. "In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God".

To be honest, Logos sounds like a catch-term phrase that could be simplified in english. Since its overly stated, the best definition online I can get is:

They called the logos providence, nature, god, and the soul of the universe, which is composed of many seminal logoi that are contained in the universal logos. Philo of Alexandria, a 1st-century-ad Jewish philosopher, .

Another definition says thats the name of Christ.

Metaphysics

Christ was with god? Is that what you are saying?

The" Spirit, or just Spirit with a capital S, saves us in that within this is the true Self. Not the illusion of the separate "I" as the ultimate truth and reality of who we are.

Knowledge of Self, or Spirit, is what "saves" us from the suffering generated by a sense of separation from our Source. We are "saved" from the game of being other to who and what we really are.

If spirit is god, what does it mean when you separate god from spirit in the two paragraphs above?

In other words, god is in you and saves you internally by seperating your external nature to reveal the internal one???

Sight is when the veil of illusion is lifted. You see something every day, then one day you look and see what was there the whole time, but you couldn't see, for whatever reason blocked that from you. To see the world through the filter that we are separated "in here" with the world "out there" blocks sight. We we die to that illusion, the "eye of the flesh," alone, that we see there is a whole reality that is really real, and what we believed was real before was an illusion.

Huh? Cant translate.

God is Spirit. Spirit is God.


Not "a" or "the" spirit as if it were a turtle, or a racoon, or a goldfish or something. Spirit is the Ocean within which all that exists is inseparable from . It's not separate from them, like some object outside you own self. The Ocean is within, as well as without. No boundaries.

I got the first part...

I don't understand what you're asking here.

Oh. You separate the flesh/physical from the spirit saying the latter is deep and depreciating the former, the physical. I never understood why the material and spiritual arent seen the same in regards to spirituality. Thats what I was reffering to. It will take a bit to find your exact wording.

Yes, in that who we think we are, who we attach our sense of self-identity to creates an attachment that keeps us from letting go of all that to see Reality beyond that veil. When we let that go, when we "die to the ego", that is experienced very much, as facing one's own physical death, if not to a far greater degree.

In other words, letting go of ego so self can surface and you have insight and experience god?

Perhaps he was enlightened. Perhaps he was just holding a sign with a religious slogan on it. But while what that verse says may sound complicated, that's only to the mind that makes it that way. Not to the mind that has realized its meaning. Then it is simplicity itself, not fancy metaphysics, or such.

Shrugs. I thought it more simple than that. When you give your life to christ, you no longer live for your own needs but christ needs. So he (Paul, I think?) no longer lives for himself but for the son of god. Spirituality dont need to be complicated and metaphoric.

The guy holding the sign, I think he was a christian very strong in his faith. I see a lot of signs where I live; so, there isnt anything supernatural behind it. Id consider them having their own blessings though.

You asked if salvation is of the Spirit, why have a body.

I answered that you might realize the joy of being a fully awakened human being. That's why.

A great way to put this would be to frame it this way. "We are not humans on a spiritual journey. Rather we are Spirit on a human journey." That explains "why" right there. To be fully Human. The Divine Human.

In other words, you need the body to experience the spirit?

Trying to translate your points.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yet many people would choose suicide over torture. In fact it's not uncommon. People committing suicide to avoid suffering.

Many people.... not all.. You probably have one or two will consider torture more sacrifice than death. I guess it depends. 2,000 years ago isnt that far ago.

Everyone is condemned to death after Adam and Eve sinned. By being the children of Adam and Eve we all are born into a trap. Because God said to them "you will surely die" And that also pertains to all their descendants.

Jesus blood makes covering for our sins because it satisfies justice in God's eyes. The price is paid for our sins. So we don't have to die. Every time someone repents of their sins; then God remembers the blood of Jesus and so forgives them because their sin is paid for.

That's why Paul said that Jesus blood speaks a better word than Abel's blood. Abel's blood cried out from the ground to God for vengeance against Cain(his killer). But Jesus' blood speaks forgiveness.

Jesus blood provides a loophole. A way for God's justice to be satisfied but also His love. In other words God's love prevailed over His sense of justice.

Do you understand the concept of being part of the body of Christ? If you are in the body of Christ; then you will rise from the dead because He rose from the dead. That's how Jesus resurrection extends to us. This is why Jesus said "I am the resurrection and the life".

Yes and no. I was a part of the Eucharist/Jesus but didnt understand it in full until later. It bothered my spirit so I left the body of christ.

But the concept is easy to understand. How does a person who died and resurrected thousands of years ago save you today? Is it your faith that saves you and not christ himself?

I cant see how he saved you. Concept yes. Faith yes. Literally, no.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Not really, because the torture Jesus died from isn't an issue. He died. That's all that matters.

Secondly, death was then and it is now. Adam was meant to live forever. Everyone dies because of his sin. Jesus nullified that sin for those who wish to live forever. Then and now and always.

If someone saved you from the bus, you can say you were saved at that moment. The person who saved you, the bus, and you are present at the same time.

Not so with jesus. So, you cant be saved by his death since the time differences are off. Even more so, if you were back then, you can watch christ die and wash your face wit his blood, but in what way has he saved you?

I know why and the concept of how. Beyond that, I have no clue.

 

[Riders]

Which God of the Jews demands blood sacrifices. You know this right?

Jewish folks and Muslims don't do animal sacrifice's do they?Any Jewish or Muslim folks here?

 

[Cooky]

Is there another definition of the Highest sacrifice that is beyond giving up ones life? (Probably a better question )

No, that is the top one.

There once existed an anti-materialist Christian sect from France who were called the Cathars. They were so anti-materialist, in fact, that they rejected food to the point that they starved themselves to death... To die of starvation, to them, was an ultimate act of martyrdom, and became the "ultimate sacrifice" of their greatest adherants.

 

[74x12]

Jewish folks and Muslims don't do animal sacrifice's do they?Any Jewish or Muslim folks here?

Check Exodus 29:12 for one among many other scriptures.

Yes and no. I was a part of the Eucharist/Jesus but didnt understand it in full until later. It bothered my spirit so I left the body of christ.

But the concept is easy to understand. How does a person who died and resurrected thousands of years ago save you today? Is it your faith that saves you and not christ himself?

I cant see how he saved you. Concept yes. Faith yes. Literally, no.

When you receive the Spirit of Jesus then what does that make you? It makes you part of Jesus' body. THis is how the Father will recognize anyone who is in the true body of Christ. Because the Spirit of Christ will be in them.

This is how Jesus was made a "life giving Spirit". (1 Corinthians 15:45) Jesus resurrection becomes our resurrection. (John 6:39, Romans 8:11) Because the Spirit of Jesus is in us; making us the body of Christ.

This was predicted in Isaiah 26:19