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Okay. I got my physical bible out

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
With old notes and online. I have not read a distinct answer to this repeated question. Normally it's in the middle of other topics.

How is jesus a sacrifice when he does not die?

A sacrifice is when you give something up of value for another person's wellbeing. Jesus said he sacrificed himself for your wellbeing. But what exactly did he loose in order to relate to you so that you are saved?

Edit. Actually, below are better questions: what's the definition of sacrifice and is there a higher one than giving up ones life.

Is there another definition of the Highest sacrifice that is beyond giving up ones life? (Probably a better question )

What' the definition of Christian sacrifice to where jesus can give himself up without dying?
 
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sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
How is jesus a sacrifice when he does not die?

Death is a supreme sacrifice to those who consider dying to be the worst possible thing to happen.

Is there another definition of the Highest sacrifice that is beyond giving up ones life? (Probably a better question )

I would say suffering is the highest sacrifice. The Christ suffered for every thing in creation.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Death is a supreme sacrifice to those who consider dying to be the worst possible thing to happen.



I would say suffering is the highest sacrifice. The Christ suffered for every thing in creation.

When one says jesus died for my sins by death they mean his suffering not his physical death? (Wouldnt it make sense to say jesus suffered for my sins?)
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
Ahhh...the physical body of Jesus in heaven, sitting aside the almighty `God`.
And there on the right is the spirit that was Jesus in the new bible writings.
In the womb of Mary did He grow, from the spirit that `God` gave to Mary.
What did arise from the body of Jesus, what spirit was in there at the core ?
If the spirit arose to heaven, what did happen to the body, where did it go ?
Christianity and the trinity, amazing to the mind isn't it all, just amazing !
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
I still don't get that idea of Jesus suffering for any `sins`,
future or distant from that time, our `sins` belong to each one,
we own our `sins`, we shouldn't blame them on Jesus,
or on any imaginary `God` !
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I still don't get that idea of Jesus suffering for any `sins`,
future or distant from that time, our `sins` belong to each one,
we own our `sins`, we shouldn't blame them on Jesus,
or on any imaginary `God` !

Personally I think Jesus showed us that sin is attachment to this world, attachment to our animal self.

I agree it is our own selves we blame for any sin. I do think we should bring ourselves to account each day, until we are summoned back to our One God.

Regards Tony
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
hey Tony,
Although we differ in the belief in `God`, we seem to agree on the need to escape sin.
I don't believe in `sin` as such, I myself, do no harm, no forgiving needed.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
hey Tony,
Although we differ in the belief in `God`, we seem to agree on the need to escape sin.
I don't believe in `sin` as such, I myself, do no harm, no forgiving needed.

That is great Mud, well done and I wish you always well in life.

Personally I have found that sin can go deeper than we realize, as to me it is feeding the constant self. I see we have to even consider the power of our thoughts and thus what we direct our minds to and on.

I also consider what good deeds we could have done, but did not and what help could I have given, but self interest made me unaware.

Regards Tony
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Then where is he now, if he didn't die?


His earthly life?

Wanted to better answer your question.

The consensus is jesus rose with his new body via resurrection.

How does his earthly death save you when it is irrelvant in salvation? In other words, salvation should be sacrifice of the spirit not flesh.

Since flesh means nothing (its not perfect), what exactly was sacrificed if not his spirit?
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
When one says jesus died for my sins by death they mean his suffering not his physical death? (Wouldnt it make sense to say jesus suffered for my sins?)

A lot of folks suffered though. Lots of folks on the cross. Jesus experienced some finite human pain knowing he would be raised into glory. Providing a path to save humanity. Noble but others have suffered similarly or worse without knowledge of any divine purpose.

We all suffer pain, but we come out the otherside of the experience. I've had some painful procedures done but knowing it was for the greater good of my well being. Maybe a necessity to achieve a goal but what was sacrificed? Three days without pain where instead of being on a cross he could have been at a local coffee shop tossing back lattes?

I'm sure being crucified is really, really unpleasant but doesn't seem a particularly prodigious sacrifice.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
A lot of folks suffered though. Lots of folks on the cross. Jesus experienced some finite human pain knowing he would be raised into glory. Providing a path to save humanity. Noble but others have suffered similarly or worse without knowledge of any divine purpose.

We all suffer pain, but we come out the otherside of the experience. I've had some painful procedures done but knowing it was for the greater good of my well being. Maybe a necessity to achieve a goal but what was sacrificed? Three days without pain where instead of being on a cross he could have been at a local coffee shop tossing back lattes?

I'm sure being crucified is really, really unpleasant but doesn't seem a particularly prodigious sacrifice.

Yeah. I had pain from brain surgery. I suffer more from the after affects. If I sacrificed myself, I would have chosen not to have the surgery. Since my wellbeing is more important than suffering and death, I figure go through it.While I believe there is no afterlife, I do believe we can live this life as it is our last.

But, well..
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't know. The consensus is jesus is eternal and sits at the right hand of his father.
The divinity of Jesus is what is considered eternal. The Logos is not the flesh that was the man called Jesus. God is in us too, but when we die, God doesn't die. :)

Both. If it were just his spirit he would not need to have a physical death. He wouldn't need to rise in body.
There are other ways to understand the resurrection, other than a reanimation of one's corpse after death. I find that idea purely a mythology to try to speak to something far more subtle than that using a "contretized" image to convey a deeper truth about our own salvation, or enlightenment through death of the separate self. "I live, and yet not I, but Christ in me", or the Spirit of God in me. The ego dies, I rise a new creature, etc.

If the body is irrelevant to salvation, why have one?
Because of the experience of being an enlightened human being. To enjoy Freedom in this flesh is the highest gift. Why would we want to leave with our eyes blind, when they could be open?

Maybe a better response is if the spirit saves and not the flesh, the spirit would need to be sacrificed. The flesh (sin) doesnt save so it's temporary death does nothing.
The Spirit saves by virtue of the fact it is Spirit. What has to die is the illusion that causes separation and suffering, which, is the "eye of the flesh". Once we see beyond that, then Spirit saves. Flesh has to die, that is the seeing with the eye of mind alone.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I do believe we can live this life as it is our last.

But, well..

I think the sacrifice of Jesus the Christ shows us it is the beginning of life.

To be spiritual we must do away wiith the desires of this world. Live for service, live to be a shining light. Be born again by the spirit of faith.

Regards Tony
 

lukethethird

unknown member
I think the sacrifice of Jesus the Christ shows us it is the beginning of life.

To be spiritual we must do away wiith the desires of this world. Live for service, live to be a shining light. Be born again by the spirit of faith.

Regards Tony
'Do away with desires of this world.' That 's why I did away with going to church.
 
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Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
With old notes and online. I have not read a distinct answer to this repeated question. Normally it's in the middle of other topics.

How is jesus a sacrifice when he does not die?

A sacrifice is when you give something up of value for another person's wellbeing. Jesus said he sacrificed himself for your wellbeing. But what exactly did he loose in order to relate to you so that you are saved?

Edit. Actually, below are better questions: what's the definition of sacrifice and is there a higher one than giving up ones life.

Is there another definition of the Highest sacrifice that is beyond giving up ones life? (Probably a better question )

What' the definition of Christian sacrifice to where jesus can give himself up without dying?

This'll make some crazy with anger. Jesus was here to instruct, and to show that a path exists from life to death and to life again, though this second life is dimensionally shifted so we can not see it unless it is revealed. Nothing mystical, or metaphysical at all.
 
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