Christmas recital cancelled not to offend other cultures

[Shadow Wolf]

It is rarely mentioned in this long standing debate that there is always a ton of learning time lost to rehearsals, to practice, etc. The entire week or two before these events are often lost. They're also mostly just PR for the school.

I'm not approaching it from that angle. Of course people need breaks, need to do fun things, and school is no different. But religious teachings aren't suitable for a school. In every way possible religion is a private matter, and it has no place being promoted in a public institution.

 

[shmogie]

It seems that renaming it a winter solstice or holiday recital wasn't acceptable to the school. If so, that smacks of Christian exceptionalism - the idea that one religion or tradition should enjoy more privilege than the others.

Italy is 98% Christian. Aren't you a believer in strict democratic idea's ? The majority wins. The others live in a Christian country, get used to it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Italy is 98% Christian. Aren't you a believer in strict democratic idea's ? The majority wins. The others live in a Christian country, get used to it.

I would hope no educated person believes in strict democracy, which is no better than mob rule.

 

[shmogie]

I would hope no educated person believes in strict democracy, which is no better than mob rule.

You got it. However, isn't that the new mantra ? I seriously doubt that the Italians have any kind of law that prohibits School Christmas celebrations. Some progressive lunkhead made this decision.

How far do we go with this ? A Muslim sued a NY restaurant because he/she was offended by the smell of frying bacon. They wanted the owner to install a very expensive air filtering system.

A judge tossed it out.

Based upon the absurd steps Britain has taken to appease their imported Muslims, it would probably be required there.

 

[Flankerl]

My family doesn't celebrate Christmas for the purpose of the "j-guy" getting born, it's just getting us all together to have a good meal and to have a good time and to spend time with each other.

And your family has probably a Christian background. Over time the Christian part of Christmas was reduced and so it turned into a secular get together.

But this is not the norm and not what the holiday is about.

Accept that there are differences and move along with your life, is a Christmas carol or 10 going to ruin your life?

As someone who was forced to attend all Christian ceremonies throughout Kindergarten, primary school and early high school in Austria I have a very different opinion on that.

Also historically the times around major Christian holidays were usually a bad time to be a Jew.

Channukah is upcoming soon and because I live in England, I won't be finding menorahs or dreidels anytime soon, nor will I be hearing local children singing Jewish hymns.

And that's good. Because the majority Population would try to include Channukah into Christmas time like it has done in the US and Canada.
Which only waters down Channukah and turns it into Jewish Christmas including a Christmas tree and gift giving.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Based upon the absurd steps Britain has taken to appease their imported Muslims, it would probably be required there.

For one, we aren't talking about Muslims. For two, there are more than just Christians and Muslims in Italy, and not all of the Christians are going to be Catholic or Methodist or Baptist no more than all the Muslims will all be Shia or Sunni. And if we do favor Christianity, who's Christianity do we favor? Christians do, after all, have a long history of political and social strife, upheaval, and war and destruction trying to sort out who's Christianity to favor.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Yes, but the public are accustomed to, in Europe at least, Christianity. They see this not only as a religion, but as part of their culture. To take it away would be stripping away a well-known and loved cultural aspect. The primary school I attended was a state school, not affiliated with any Church or organisation, but we sang hymns, did the nativity, sent Christmas cards and so on. No-one cared, no-one complained and no-one was offended, because they understood this to be part of western culture and when the kids were old enough and went to secondary school, these things would disappear more often than not. You can't just legislate away a culture.

Again NO ONE is suggesting that they not be allowed to celebrate in any manner that they wish. They are welcome to do whatever they want in their churches and their homes. And just because no one dared to complain about you imposing Christianity on a public school does not mean that no -one cared. The reality is when religious people start to claim that their religion is a part of EVERYONE'S culture, those who do not share such a view can often be ostracized by the majority.

So tell me, why exactly MUST these people do their celebrating in a public forum? Why is it not acceptable for them to perform their religious programs in their homes and churches? I am aware of no other religions that attempt to impose their beliefs on everyone in a public school system - or asked them to 'opt out' from participating - so why do Christians appear to have this need?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But this is not the norm and not what the holiday is about.

Very true. Even the Pagan origins of Saturnalia are mostly lost and unknown to contemporary humans, because it has become--as the dozen or so Christmas songs that have been remade dozens of times--a time to celebrate the time when "the Lord is born," a "holy infant" born to a "round young virgin," so "hark the herald Angels sang" and "come all ye faithful" to this Christian celebration.

 

[Kapalika]

Ya I don't believe this, the "facts" in this is probably twisted to high heaven to fit a narrative.

 

[Shad]

PC absurdity

I am guessing there was a lack of a secular push in schools if that reason was used.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Christmas is awesome and I don't see why people think only Christians can enjoy it.

I mean, I'm a Baha'i, and I'm one of those who begins Christmas decorating in October.

I'm an atheist, my kids sing Carol's at school and I happily attend. Well...maybe not happily, but that's logistics rather than religion.
Still, isolated examples of over reaction shouldnt be over reacted to.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm not approaching it from that angle. Of course people need breaks, need to do fun things, and school is no different. But religious teachings aren't suitable for a school. In every way possible religion is a private matter, and it has no place being promoted in a public institution.

I totally concur. I taught for 30 years. There are a lot of quite sneaky people out there who do it despite it even being against the law. It took many years here to stop Gideon distribution of bibles, for example. Christmas is just the tip of the iceberg. But social change takes time.

 

[Cacotopia]

And your family has probably a Christian background. Over time the Christian part of Christmas was reduced and so it turned into a secular get together.

But this is not the norm and not what the holiday is about.

As someone who was forced to attend all Christian ceremonies throughout Kindergarten, primary school and early high school in Austria I have a very different opinion on that.

Also historically the times around major Christian holidays were usually a bad time to be a Jew.

And that's good. Because the majority Population would try to include Channukah into Christmas time like it has done in the US and Canada.
Which only waters down Channukah and turns it into Jewish Christmas including a Christmas tree and gift giving.

That's not what it is to you. how hard is this to understand? Do you want to force the world to spend Christmas how you like to spend it? That sounds like a lot of fun.

Dude I worked in retail....OK? I HATE Christmas carols. I ****ing hate them. But you can endure it for a month or 2. I did it for years working and listening to that absolute garbage.

You can see it in a negative light or you can see it in a positive one that is your choice to be a Debbie Downer, during Christmas time. A time to spend quality time with your fam fam and friends.

 

[Riders]

I believe if its a public school I do not believe they should put on a Christmas pageant. That's what private Christian schools are for.


If I thought someone was having a Christian pageant at my child's school and I was Jewish or Muslim I would have them stay home.Why should non Christian children be made to participate in a Christian tradition"

I agree with the person who called it off,its not fair unless they celebrate other religious traditions as well.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Bring on you Christmas recitals. Put up your Hannukah bush and candelabra. Give me a creche, a Star of David, a Crescent moon and any other religious symbol you cling to. I have no objection to any of those things in the public square. Whether I believe in your religion or not, I still believe in freedom of expression...and if I don't like it, my own freedom to ignore it. I don't ask that anybody give up their precious traditions just so that I don't have to see them.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

If I thought someone was having a Christian pageant at my child's school and I was Jewish or Muslim I would have them stay home.Why should non Christian children be made to participate in a Christian tradition"

It is very likely more enriching than hurtful to learn something about other cultures, other beliefs. Being an observer doesn't necessarily make you an initiate.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I don't like Christmas trees and I think they are Pagan nonsense, ..

Well, the whole religion thing is non-sense and no less pagan. What is wrong if when it is snowing outside, they bring a tree in their homes and decorate it with things that children like. It is fun.

I wonder what that leave us.

A great void.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Traditional Christmas recital at Italian school cancelled to not offend children with other beliefs


No Comment

Something is amiss. If children of different backgrounds go there, then what about the years prior?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It seems that renaming it a winter solstice or holiday recital wasn't acceptable to the school. If so, that smacks of Christian exceptionalism - the idea that one religion or tradition should enjoy more privilege than the others.

Ah yes this is probably the reason. I was wondering why they would cancel it.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Well.... I do understand that a Muslim kid can feel as an outsider in a class of 23 Christian kids who think of Xmas as the best time of the year.
It mustn't be easy.
At the same time...those 23 kids are guilty of being born in a traditionally Christian country.

But where does it say there are Muslim kids?