Christmas recital cancelled not to offend other cultures

[Estro Felino]

Traditional Christmas recital at Italian school cancelled to not offend children with other beliefs


No Comment

 

[Rival]

Absurd.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Traditional Christmas recital at Italian school cancelled to not offend children with other beliefs


No Comment

It seems that renaming it a winter solstice or holiday recital wasn't acceptable to the school. If so, that smacks of Christian exceptionalism - the idea that one religion or tradition should enjoy more privilege than the others.

 

[Rival]

It seems that renaming it a winter solstice or holiday recital wasn't acceptable to the school. If so, that smacks of Christian exceptionalism - the idea that one religion or tradition should enjoy more privilege than the others.

Because the holiday being celebrated is Christmas, not the winter solstice or Chanukah. It's not any more offensive than Jewish majority areas celebrating the latter, or Islamic areas celebrating Eid Al Fitr. It's a traditional European holiday and schools have every right to celebrate it if they want. Those other kids aren't forced to join if they don't desire to. Christians celebrating Christian holidays in Christian areas is called tradition, not exceptionalism, and it's not hurting anyone.

 

[Augustus]

It seems that renaming it a winter solstice or holiday recital wasn't acceptable to the school. If so, that smacks of Christian exceptionalism - the idea that one religion or tradition should enjoy more privilege than the others.

It's pretty standard across the world that traditions which have a longstanding basis in the local culture are given greater privilege than those which don't.

 

[Cacotopia]

Acceptance of other cultural values is going in the opposite direction that it should be going in, instead of not trying to offend everyone, they should be including everyone.

And the so called "offended parties" should be learning to accept the cultural and religious differences of each other.

It's backwards progress like this that only serves to widen the gap between peoples instead of building a bridge to bring them together.

It's this fear of offense that serves as the hydraulic pump that is pushing people further apart. Invite them to attend as they should invite you to attend their celebrations learning about each other is the first step towards a better tomorrow, not closing your door in their face.

America is a nation that is defined by its own wide diversity they should* be at the forefront combating these issues, only they are falling fast into last place.

 

[Augustus]

And the so called "offended parties" should be learning to accept the cultural and religious differences of each other.

Often it is some PC do-gooder who decides other people will be offended, rather than the people who are supposed to be offended themselves who instigate such actions. The people who are being 'protected' from offence usually have no problem with the majority celebrating their cultural traditions as they have cultural traditions of their own that they also value.

 

[Cacotopia]

Often it is some PC do-gooder who decides other people will be offended, rather than the people who are supposed to be offended themselves who instigate such actions. The people who are being 'protected' from offence usually have no problem with the majority celebrating their cultural traditions as they have cultural traditions of their own that they also value.

I am of the opinion that both sides are at equal fault, those that let their fear govern their actions and those that would be loud and obnoxious by allowing such a small event to anger them in the first place.

If the spirit of Christmas is to bring people together it's these yahoos that are destroying it.

 

[stvdv]

Traditional Christmas recital at Italian school cancelled to not offend children with other beliefs No Comment

I am curious about the details. This headmaster can't be a true Christian I think. Maybe an atheist who has been hurt by Christian proselytizers now trying to make a point. Or he has another religion and tries to make his point. This will never happen in a Muslim country. They are very strong on "never let go of your culture, and be proud of your culture and religion". And Putin will never allow it to happen in Russia either. We need not be chauvinistic but killing Christmas is lacking some self respect I think

I love Christmas Carols and I love the Christmas holidays. The best part of Christianity IMO.

Must be some Christian Karmic thing biting them back in the butt. Better solve that problem than killing your culture

 

[Stanyon]

Because the holiday being celebrated is Christmas, not the winter solstice or Chanukah. It's not any more offensive than Jewish majority areas celebrating the latter, or Islamic areas celebrating Eid Al Fitr. It's a traditional European holiday and schools have every right to celebrate it if they want. Those other kids aren't forced to join if they don't desire to. Christians celebrating Christian holidays in Christian areas is called tradition, not exceptionalism, and it's not hurting anyone.

I'd imagine most of the kids in those religions wouldn't care either way what holiday they celebrate if they got a day off from school or got sweeties, beats doing schoolwork!

 

[Flankerl]

If the spirit of Christmas is to bring people together

But it's not. It's to celebrate the birth of the J-guy.

 

[Estro Felino]

. If so, that smacks of Christian exceptionalism - the idea that one religion or tradition should enjoy more privilege than the others.

Well.... I do understand that a Muslim kid can feel as an outsider in a class of 23 Christian kids who think of Xmas as the best time of the year.
It mustn't be easy.
At the same time...those 23 kids are guilty of being born in a traditionally Christian country.

 

[Sanzbir]

Christmas is awesome and I don't see why people think only Christians can enjoy it.

I mean, I'm a Baha'i, and I'm one of those who begins Christmas decorating in October.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Because the holiday being celebrated is Christmas

Apparently, others think that the recital should be more inclusive. The article wasn't clear about whether the school in question received public funds, but if it did, then those others have a say in how that money is spent.

Many people including some Christians believe that if Christians want to celebrate Christmas exclusively, they should do so in private spaces on their own dime, not using public funds.

This is how democracies and free markets work. For as long as the church could impose Christian-only values onto society, it did. Apparently, now the counter-forces are powerful enough to impose their wills enough to force the school in question to offer an inclusive event or incur potential social and economic repercussions.

It's a traditional European holiday and schools have every right to celebrate it if they want.

Agreed. And the school opted out. They made a choice. What's the problem?

Christians celebrating Christian holidays in Christian areas is called tradition, not exceptionalism, and it's not hurting anyone.

Hurting others isn't the issue, and traditions change. Remember when Christmas was a desert holiday featuring camels and mangers? Well, now its an ice holiday featuring decorated evergreens, and tinsel and flocking to simulate ice and snow. Bethlehem became the North Pole, and the Magi, Baby Jesus, Joseph and Mary were replaced by Santa, elves, Frosty and Rudolph.

Regarding exceptionalism,

• "The problem with being privileged your whole life is that because you have had that privilege for so long, equality starts to look like oppression." - Mark Caddo

Isn't that what's happening here?

If the spirit of Christmas is to bring people together it's these yahoos that are destroying it.

Nothing is being destroyed. Society is evolving and being transformed in the process.

Also, the spirit of Christmas is not meaningful to non-Christians just as Christians probably don't have much interest in the spirit of Kwanzaa or Festivus.

Nor is unity an exclusively Christian value, and probably not a Christian value at all, which is likely the reason that if the school can't honor an exclusively Christian holiday, then it would rather cancel the event. What is the message there?

 

[Cacotopia]

But it's not. It's to celebrate the birth of the J-guy.

If that's what you want to take from it, that's fine, and telling people what Christmas is about to you, is also good, but don't exclude what Christmas means to other people, that very thought process is one of the major issues that is causing this regression.

My family doesn't celebrate Christmas for the purpose of the "j-guy" getting born, it's just getting us all together to have a good meal and to have a good time and to spend time with each other.

 

[stvdv]

With Christmas I always went to the Ashram of Sai Baba. There they celebrated Christmas like nowhere else. Having Choirs practicing for about 2 weeks and then many days of celebrating Christmas. And the students of Sai Baba, being Hindu, always made sure to have the best Christmas songs and having always a few amazing Christmas performances for us to enjoy.

I think this is the way to go. Stop criticizing other religions. Embrace and injoy each others religion. Good lesson for Christians to learn from this. When they stop proselytizing others won't have problems with Christmas, even more they will enjoy it. Who does not like a party celebrating Jesus?

 

[Cacotopia]

I'm not talk about other religious or not religious celebrations I am discussing in particular Christmas, let's try not to muddy the waters this time with the tired and old semantics argument that this forum is apt to regularly decline into.

People get together to celebrate various things for a whole slew of different reasons, what may have begun as a religious ceremony celebrating one thing has evolved to celebrate another, and the name may have just stayed the same for the purposes of convenience. Does that mean people can't celebrate something else for what was once a religious ceremony?

Nope.

Christmas is an excellent example of this evolution, since it is a ceremony comprised of an amalgamation of various pagan and christian traditions mish mashed into one.

Accept that there are differences and move along with your life, is a Christmas carol or 10 going to ruin your life? No it is not. This isn't 'Mars Attacks' where if you hear a certain song your brain will literally explode. And neither is a play about Christmas as act of war on other religions.

 

[Rival]

Apparently, others think that the recital should be more inclusive. The article wasn't clear about whether the school in question received public funds, but if it did, then those others have a say in how that money is spent.

Many people including some Christians believe that if Christians want to celebrate Christmas exclusively, they should do so in private spaces on their own dime, not using public funds.

This is how democracies and free markets work. For as long as the church could impose Christian-only values onto society, it did. Apparently, now the counter-forces are powerful enough to impose their wills enough to force the school in question to offer an inclusive event or incur potential social and economic repercussions.

There is no reason why the recital needs to include other religions. Italy is a Catholic country and celebrates Catholic traditions and holidays. It has nothing to do with where the money comes from, but the culture and the background, the tradition and the familiarity. Inclusivity waters it down and makes it no longer Christmas, which, as I said before, is what is being celebrated. This is how majority religious countries work. Christian countries celebrate Christian festivals and non-Christian ones don't. It doesn't matter how people feel about that. I can also turn to some people and say, Well, this is a Christian country, so you ought to celebrate your non-Christian festivals in private.

Agreed. And the school opted out. They made a choice. What's the problem?

The problem was they were afraid of offending a non-existent party because nobody claimed to be offended.

Hurting others isn't the issue, and traditions change. Remember when Christmas was a desert holiday featuring camels and mangers? Well, now its an ice holiday featuring decorated evergreens, and tinsel and flocking to simulate ice and snow. Bethlehem became the North Pole, and the Magi, Baby Jesus, Joseph and Mary were replaced by Santa, elves, Frosty and Rudolph.

Regarding exceptionalism,

• "The problem with being privileged your whole life is that because you have had that privilege for so long, equality starts to look like oppression." - Mark Caddo

Isn't that what's happening here?

Nothing is being destroyed. Society is evolving and being transformed in the process.

Also, the spirit of Christmas is not meaningful to non-Christians just as Christians probably don't have much interest in the spirit of Kwanzaa or Festivus.

Nor is unity an exclusively Christian value, and probably not a Christian value at all, which is likely the reason that if the school can't honor an exclusively Christian holiday, then it would rather cancel the event. What is the message there?

Celebrating Christmas in a majority Christian country is not a problem. Sure, it's a privilege for Christians, but it's because their faith is dominant in that country so that's just how it works. Other people just need to get over that. Channukah is upcoming soon and because I live in England, I won't be finding menorahs or dreidels anytime soon, nor will I be hearing local children singing Jewish hymns. That's not oppression, that's called living in a Christian country.

 

[Cacotopia]

Well, this is a Christian country, so you ought to celebrate your non-Christian festivals in private.

I can see this occurring in mono-cultural areas of the world, America is not a mono-cultural society like say, Japan is. You have large communities of people from a multitude of different cultural backgrounds, yes the dominating religion of America is Christianity, but there are those pesky things called rights, stuff like freedom of expression, that would generally meddle with you trying to stifle another from expressing themselves and religious freedom.

 

[Vinayaka]

In Italy, are the schools secular, or Catholic? Is there one single system, or are there private religious schools as well? In Rome, for example as its a bigger place, is there a private Islamic school, or does everyone attend the same schools?

I ask, because here in Canada we have about 3 or 4 kinds of schools, public, private, and some sort of half-way ... publicly funded but intended for a certain group.