Christmas recital cancelled not to offend other cultures

[Jumi]

Lots of kids will be happy if they're cancelled. The parents won't be, though.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Traditional Christmas recital at Italian school cancelled to not offend children with other beliefs.

That is why we do not have 'secularism' in India. What we have in our Constitution is "Sarva Dharma Sama Bhava' (Treat all religions equally). So, so when the Christians celebrate Christmas, Hindus and Muslims also celebrate and shop. When Muslims have Eid, Christians and Hindus join and enjoy the savories. When Hindus have Holi, Chriswtians and Muslims join. We do not negate religion. All important festivals of all religions are Holidays. That way we have more Public Holidays to enjoy, 14 compulsory for all and 3 by choice and 2 for people of a particular religion, in all 19.
Public holidays in India - Wikipedia

If the spirit of Christmas is to bring people together it's these yahoos that are destroying it.

Let us not talk about the spirit of Christmas, or whatever it is. It is for Christians and not necessarily for others. Christians have a festival, let us join and enjoy without beating the Christian drum.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

There is no reason why the recital needs to include other religions

Other traditions. They're not all religious holidays. And there is also no reason to exclude them, at least not any more now that alternate traditions are gaining some visibility and social clout.

Inclusivity waters it down and makes it no longer Christmas, which, as I said before, is what is being celebrated.

Inclusivity waters Christmas down? How can you water Christmas down any more than what has already occurred? The holiday isn't even recognizable any more. It could use an eclectic infusion of other traditions to give it some substance other than malls and e-cards.

Christian countries celebrate Christian festivals and non-Christian ones don't. It doesn't matter how people feel about that

Well, apparently it does. That seems to be changing.

I can also turn to some people and say, Well, this is a Christian country, so you ought to celebrate your non-Christian festivals in private.

Yes you can, and most of us do. Isn't that how you celebrate Hanukkah? It's how we celebrate Festivus with its aluminum pole, its airing of grievances, the reporting of mundane miracles, and the feats of strength.

When we start consuming public dollars to stage Festivus-only holiday celebrations, then you'll be justified in your objection.

The problem was they were afraid of offending a non-existent party because nobody claimed to be offended.

I still don't see a problem. They were afraid and made a choice. That's the way life is.

If you think that they kow-towed to a nonexistent threat, then they might have made a tactical error. Why blame others for that?

Celebrating Christmas in a majority Christian country is not a problem. Sure, it's a privilege for Christians, but it's because their faith is dominant in that country so that's just how it works.

People, especially liberal people, are pushing for inclusivity. If they can mount a successful coalition of like-minded people to oppose the status quo, then they will. That's also how things work.

Other people just need to get over that.

Why? If they don't like it and have the power to change it, they will.

That is why we do not have 'secularism' in India. What we have in our Constitution is "Sarva Dharma Sama Bhava' (Treat all religions equally). So, so when the Christians celebrate Christmas, Hindus and Muslims also celebrate and shop. When Muslims have Eid, Christians and Hindus join and enjoy the savories. When Hindus have Holi, Chriswtians and Muslims join. We do not negate religion. All important festivals of all religions are Holidays.

That sounds inclusive. I don't see people objecting to that. I wouldn't. No single tradition is exalted above the others.

 

[Rival]

Other traditions. They're not all religious holidays. And there is also no reason to exclude them, at least not any more now that alternate traditions are gaining some visibility and social clout.

There is a reason to exclude them: they are not Christian. What is being celebrated is a Christian holiday in a Christian country. That's all there is to this. If those others want to celebrate their traditions they can, but they shouldn't expect public places that are majority Christian to include them because they cater to the majority.

Inclusivity waters Christmas down? How can you water Christmas down any more than what has already occurred? The holiday isn't even recognizable any more. It could use an eclectic infusion of other traditions to give it some substance other than malls and e-cards.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that it can't retain its original meaning in certain places. Children singing Christian hymns and performing the nativity has been done for centuries in Europe, so adding in new traditions is indeed watering it down and losing that meaning. Every year in my school the little ones would perform the nativity; nobody would be happy if all of a sudden, it were the Channukah story instead - because that's not the culture or the point.

Well, apparently it does. That seems to be changing.

No, it doesn't matter how people feel. I feel left out during Christmas. So what? I realise that I live in a Christian nation and I get on with my life.

Yes you can, and most of us do. Isn't that how you celebrate Hanukkah? It's how we celebrate Festivus with its aluminum pole, its airing of grievances, the reporting of mundane miracles, and the feats of strength.

When we start consuming public dollars to stage Festivus-only holiday celebrations, then you'll be justified in your objection.

Yes, it is how I celebrate. It's also no big deal.

I still don't see a problem. They were afraid and made a choice. That's the way life is.

If you think that they kow-towed to a nonexistent threat, then they might have made a tactical error. Why blame others for that?

They definitely made an error. The Headmaster did.

People, especially liberal people, are pushing for inclusivity. If they can mount a successful coalition of like-minded people to oppose the status quo, then they will. That's also how things work.

People don't want a coalition, they want to keep their traditions. If those traditions exclude people then that's just how it is. We can't please everyone and no-one is being hurt by not being included because as we've said, they can celebrate in other places.

Why? If they don't like it and have the power to change it, they will.

We'll fight back. I don't like Christmas trees and I think they are Pagan nonsense, but I'll fight for schools to be able to mount them and not be forced to put a menorah next to it.

 

[Altfish]

But it's not. It's to celebrate the birth of the J-guy.

I'd say that in the UK very few celebrate that.
I celebrate Christmas but not the J-guy

 

[Estro Felino]

I'd say that in the UK very few celebrate that.
I celebrate Christmas but not the J-guy

Indeed...my neighbors who live next door are atheists and once I saw in their house a big xmas tree and a very expensive nativity scene. damn

 

[Nakosis]

Traditional Christmas recital at Italian school cancelled to not offend children with other beliefs


No Comment

I suppose the time for tolerance is over. We should do away with all public displays of religious and patriotic holidays so no one feels offended.

I wonder what that leave us.

 

[viole]

Traditional Christmas recital at Italian school cancelled to not offend children with other beliefs


No Comment

And what happens if the other cultures are offended? Will they go back to where they come from?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Altfish]

[/SPOILER]

Indeed...my neighbors who live next door are atheists and once I saw in their house a big xmas tree and a very expensive nativity scene. damn

We have a very old nativity scene that's been handed down.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

It seems that renaming it a winter solstice or holiday recital wasn't acceptable to the school. If so, that smacks of Christian exceptionalism - the idea that one religion or tradition should enjoy more privilege than the others.

Oh give it a rest. There is nothing to stop these so-called other religions from also setting up their own party or worshiping their own stuff in private. Europe has traditionally been a Christian region. Africa, Asia, sure. But when I invite guests to my house, I don't expect them to start making demands. These other cultures are guests in the home. We can in fact extend equal worship to them, but we are not obligated to do so.

In America, yes, you're welcome to worship freely because that's how our culture works. In Italy, I think they're Roman Catholic or something, so yea sod off.

 

[Prestor John]

It seems that renaming it a winter solstice or holiday recital wasn't acceptable to the school. If so, that smacks of Christian exceptionalism - the idea that one religion or tradition should enjoy more privilege than the others.

How is that?

 

[Prestor John]

Traditional Christmas recital at Italian school cancelled to not offend children with other beliefs


No Comment

That's sad but its all according to prophecy. The end draws nigh.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Oh give it a rest.

No thanks. If it's OK with you, I think that I'm going to continue to exercise my freedom of speech and express my opinions.

There is nothing to stop these so-called other religions from also setting up their own party or worshiping their own stuff in private. Europe has traditionally been a Christian region. Africa, Asia, sure. But when I invite guests to my house, I don't expect them to start making demands. These other cultures are guests in the home. We can in fact extend equal worship to them, but we are not obligated to do so.

You contradicted nothing that I wrote. In fact, I recommended private celebrations. I still support the idea that when public dollars are spent, they be spent inclusively.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Traditional Christmas recital at Italian school cancelled to not offend children with other beliefs


No Comment

Good for them. School is not the appropriate venue. I'm sure that there are plenty of local churches that could host such an event.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Because the holiday being celebrated is Christmas, not the winter solstice or Chanukah. It's not any more offensive than Jewish majority areas celebrating the latter, or Islamic areas celebrating Eid Al Fitr. It's a traditional European holiday and schools have every right to celebrate it if they want. Those other kids aren't forced to join if they don't desire to. Christians celebrating Christian holidays in Christian areas is called tradition, not exceptionalism, and it's not hurting anyone.

Then it should be celebrated in the homes of Christians or within their churches. No reason to impose it upon everyone in a public school.

 

[Rival]

Then it should be celebrated in the homes of Christians or within their churches. No reason to impose it upon everyone in a public school.

It's not being imposed. Kids can opt out. No-one is forced to attend a nativity play, a Christmas dance or a hymn recital, and putting a Christmas tree in a hallway isn't hurting anyone.

 

[QuestioningMind]

It's not being imposed. Kids can opt out. No-one is forced to attend a nativity play, a Christmas dance or a hymn recital, and putting a Christmas tree in a hallway isn't hurting anyone.

They shouldn't have to opt out. It's a public school, not a Christian school. Christians and people of other religions all have places of worship where they could host this religious celebration.

 

[Rival]

They shouldn't have to opt out. It's a public school, not a Christian school. Christians and people of other religions all have places of worship where they could host this religious celebration.

Yes, but the public are accustomed to, in Europe at least, Christianity. They see this not only as a religion, but as part of their culture. To take it away would be stripping away a well-known and loved cultural aspect. The primary school I attended was a state school, not affiliated with any Church or organisation, but we sang hymns, did the nativity, sent Christmas cards and so on. No-one cared, no-one complained and no-one was offended, because they understood this to be part of western culture and when the kids were old enough and went to secondary school, these things would disappear more often than not. You can't just legislate away a culture.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Kids go to school to learn, not to be indoctrinated. Kids learn about math, art, science, history, and health. Religious, culture, and other traditional practices should be left to the family and not imposed upon others.

But it's not. It's to celebrate the birth of the J-guy.

The Jolly Red Fat Guy?

 

[Vinayaka]

Kids go to school to learn, not to be indoctrinated. Kids learn about math, art, science, history, and health. Religious, culture, and other traditional practices should be left to the family and not imposed upon others.

The Jolly Red Fat Guy?

It is rarely mentioned in this long standing debate that there is always a ton of learning time lost to rehearsals, to practice, etc. The entire week or two before these events are often lost. They're also mostly just PR for the school.