Does the Bible mention Islam?

[TransmutingSoul]

A couple of things... It also says that all eyes will see him. I'm sure you have an explanation for that. The other is that sure coming in the "clouds" works for Baha'u'llah, but it also has to work for Muhammad and The Bab. Or, do Baha'is use it for all of them, or have different verses that refers to how they came?

With this we all see different aspects. Have you ever asked yourself what is wrong or right with the world?

Personally we see what we wish to see from the Revelation. There is no arguing that since the mid 1800's the world has changed.

Regards Tony.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well, since your Mom is a Christian and you attend a Church, has you attitude of giving them love, peace and justice worked? Because it must be tough once they ask you questions isn't it? How do you diplomatically and with love tell them that what they believe in is wrong? And, doesn't that mean that you have to chip away at their erroneous beliefs too?

Silence is golden. live ones life to the teachings as best as one can.

I have not been to church for a while, they had an evangelistic pastor come for a while.

Life is always challenging, finding Islam in the Bible may be your challenge?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But I thought you guys did have some kind of chart with all kinds of dates and times and lines connecting everything?

There has been some great research done. They are all motivated by the Core Message of Baha'u'llah. Therin to me, is the key to any benefit we may obtain from all charts.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

A couple of things... It also says that all eyes will see him. I'm sure you have an explanation for that. The other is that sure coming in the "clouds" works for Baha'u'llah, but it also has to work for Muhammad and The Bab. Or, do Baha'is use it for all of them, or have different verses that refers to how they came?

There is another aspect we have to consider.

A new Revelation brings about change that all eyes can see, even if they do not know the source of that change.

That seeing the change does not also neccessarly mean accepting the source of the change, these verses were offered about this time.

It is up to each of us to decide how we see these verses;

Acts 13:41 "BEHOLD, YOU SCOFFERS, AND MARVEL, AND PERISH; FOR I AM ACCOMPLISHING A WORK IN YOUR DAYS, A WORK WHICH YOU WILL NEVER BELIEVE, THOUGH SOMEONE SHOULD DESCRIBE IT TO YOU.'"

2 Peter 3:3 "Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,"

How can one mock another Messenger unless the message to mock comes prior?

Regards Tony

 

[PruePhillip]

Actually, Mormonism claims to be the same gospel preached by Jesus. Maybe it's the rest of Christianity that's teaching a different gospel.

If that was the case then they wouldn't create a Mormon bible.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If that was the case then they wouldn't create a Mormon bible.

What about King James?

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

What is it that Christ taught? Without using just a few verses that paint a rosy Baha'i type of picture, but by using all of the quotes from Jesus, what did he teach?

Then, by using the whole of the New Testament, what should Christianity be teaching?

No matter what you come up with, there will always be the question as to how reliable is the New Testament. Baha'is use it both ways. Quoting from it as if it is the "Word of God", and other times questioning what is said and pointing out that those that wrote it were not eyewitnesses. I would add that they were terribly prejudiced in their writing and wanted Jesus and their view of what he taught to look as if it was the very "Word of God". And, if Christians today believe that is the case, why wouldn't they take every word as absolutely the truth about God.

Then what happens, Baha'is criticize them for taking it too literal. There is no reason why a Christian should not believe that Islam, the Baha'i Faith and all the other religions, are false. With the one exception being Judaism, and even there, Christianity, with what they teach in the NT, nullifies it and its laws, and makes themselves the "new" covenant, dissolving the "old" covenant.

Now if you want to say that the NT writers made things up, exaggerated things, and took things out of context from the Jewish Scriptures to make their case, then I'd agree. But that would make Christianity a religion built on falsehoods. And that all goes back to what one of the Jewish posters said about retrofitting. With the "Abrahamic" line of religions, each one knocks down all the pillars of the previous one and yet finds "prophecies" that make it, the new religion, the truth. Christianity took out Judaism. Islam took out Christianity. And now, the Baha'i Faith takes them all out... and not in a good way... not like some God designed progression, but by showing how the previous religion screwed things up.

To say that Christians are "prejudiced" against Islam, then you also have to say that Judaism is prejudiced against Christianity. And, Islam is prejudiced against the Baha'i Faith. But are the "prejudiced" or justified? From their pov, they are justified by their Scriptures. To the Jews, Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies about being the Messiah. For Christians, Muhammad is not a prophet of God. And to Islam and Christianity, Baha'u'llah is not the "return" of Christ or some hidden "Mahdi" or whatever Baha'is say that Baha'u'llah is to the Moslems.

Is that prejudice, or believing the very words of what each religions believes to be the "Word" of God? Then Baha's always argue that these other religions should be open to other interpretations of their own Scriptures? But, those interpretation undermine and destroy their religion. If they go by those Baha'i interpretations, they would not be Jews, or Christians or Moslems, they would be Baha'is. They would be admitting that their old religion was wrong and only, that is, only the Baha'is have it right and speak the truth about God.

Baha'is act as if all the believers in all the other religions are blind followers... that they don't know and understand their own religion and their own Scriptures. But some do, and some question and point out the contradictions in the Baha'i interpretation. And you say those people have 'lost" sight of God? They are wandering in paths of "delusion"? That is how Baha'is really feel about the believers in the other religions? That is "oneness"? That is "respect"? That is accepting all religions to be from the same God? No, it's saying they are all wrong, and anyone foolish enough to still be following these other religions is blind and is nothing but a blind follower of false teachings and traditions... that nothing in their religion has any truth left in it. That is, except, the few verses and the prophecies, and the verses that can be retrofitted to become prophecies, and the things that are true symbolically... Those things, the Baha'is accept.

Great, then everyone is wrong but Baha'is. Then just plainly say so. Quit pretending how you love and respect all the other religions, you don't. You believe they are all wrong. The only reason you need Islam in the Bible is to prove you are in the Bible also. But who are the false teachers and false prophets of the Bible? If it's not you then who? The Christians themselves? The Baha'is constantly use the quote about "good fruit"... Since Baha'is produce good fruit, they must be true. But which religious movement doesn't produce some good? Even Scientology has helped some people. But is it the truth from God? Your truth centers around "Unity" and "Oneness", how can you call it unity when at the core of your beliefs, you don't believe the other religions to know and to be teaching the truth?

God is not the author of confusion! (1 Corinthians 14:33).

The Baha'i Faith is founded on the Teachings of Baha'u'llah. Our writings cut across the tangle of inconsistencies and contradictions that are associated with religion that you describe so well.

There is one God and One truth. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all represent the truth of the One God. Most contradictions can easily be resolved. The Baha'is can clearly demonstrate that as time passes the original Teachings become entangled in man made doctrines that eclipse the actual Teachings themselves. If Muhammad literally returned and declared who He was the Muslims would kill Him. If Jesus literally returned, the Christians would not recognise Him. The Jews have set an unrealistic, almost impossible set of conditions their Messiah must fulfil so they won't accept anyone.

Any religion will look back to 'retrofit'. That's what the Christians, Muslims and Baha'is do. The question is whether a reasonable narrative can be developed to make sense of what has gone before. That alone should never be the standard for accepting or rejecting a religion. Much more important are the effectiveness of a religions teachings to positively transform lives and the example set by the religions founder that gives moral authority.

God will always bless true religion of God and enable it to prosper. No man or religion group can prevent it.

 

[PruePhillip]

What about King James?

Regards Tony

King James is a translation.
The book of Mormon is an invention of Joseph Smith.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

King James is a translation.
The book of Mormon is an invention of Joseph Smith.

I would agree. I do remember reading something about some books not being included. As a translation, it is the standard and style used for the Baha'i Writings.

Regards Tony

 

[PruePhillip]

I would agree. I do remember reading something about some books not being included. As a translation, it is the standard and style used for the Baha'i Writings.

Regards Tony

Yes, there are books not included. Some Protestant bibles have them as "apocrypha."
And some books are clearly fake, such as the so-called "Gospel" of Thomas.
When the modern bible was compiled the latter were widely seen as not credible.

And what I love about about is that Jesus didn't come to be a philosopher, or a great king,
or warrior, or poet, or theologian or poet or whatever. He came to be the Redeemer.
Lots want to be kings, warriors etc, but none want to lay their life down like He did.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And what I love about about is that Jesus didn't come to be a philosopher, or a great king,
or warrior, or poet, or theologian or poet or whatever. He came to be the Redeemer.
Lots want to be kings, warriors etc, but none want to lay their life down like He did.

Do you know as fact that Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah did not live life this way, the way of Jesus the Christ?

Regards Tony

 

[PruePhillip]

Do you know as fact that Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah did not live life this way, the way of Jesus the Christ?

Regards Tony

Sir, no-one has lived as Jesus lived.
Read Isaiah 53, He came to be despised, rejected and to make his
grave with the criminals of this world.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sir, no-one has lived as Jesus lived.
Read Isaiah 53, He came to be despised, rejected and to make his
grave with the criminals.

Then you are not aware of the lives of Muhammad the Bab or Baha'u'llah as they also mirror the Life Jesus the Christ gave to humanity.

You could start a thread and find out more.

The Life Story of the Bab, is also the Story of Christ.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Abdul'baha explained this.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 106-107

To me this is the moment that the Disciples connected with the Spirit of Faith and realised that Christ never dies and is more than flesh.

That inspiration was Christ, the Holy Spirit.

Regards Tony

The Baha'i quote:

After the death of Christ the disciples were troubled, and their ideas and thoughts were discordant and contradictory; later they became firm and united, and at the feast of Pentecost they gathered together and detached themselves from the things of this world. Disregarding themselves, they renounced their comfort and worldly happiness, sacrificing their body and soul to the Beloved, abandoning their houses, and becoming wanderers and homeless, even forgetting their own existence. Then they received the help of God, and the power of the Holy Spirit became manifested..
​

Acts chapter 2:

When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
​

Supposedly, Jesus had already appeared to them for several days and many of them supposedly watched him ascend into the sky. Jesus promised this Holy Spirit and here he is. Abdul Baha ignores that they saw "tongues" of fire and they began speaking in foreign languages.

Later in the chapter Peter speaking:

32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
​

In context the NT says that Jesus rose from the dead. Something that Peter says that he and the other apostles witnessed. That Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would come. And, what the people were witnessing there that day was the pouring out of that Spirit.

Abdul Baha says a lot of nice sounding things, while at the same time bypassing what the NT writers really said. What's so difficult to believe that God brought Jesus back to life and then filled his followers with his Spirit? If modern people today fall for it, oops, I mean believe it, just think how it was 2000 years ago. People today get hands laid on them and start speaking gibberish, oops, again, I mean, they start speaking in tongues. Supposedly people heard these Christians and understood them in their native tongues.

That's all part of this story. Apparently, along with not believing Jesus rose physically from the dead, Baha'is don't believe that Christian get filled with the Holy Spirit. But, 2000 years ago, what would you do? Why would you doubt that Jesus did all these things? If you felt the love of God in your heart, why wouldn't you think it is the Holy Spirit living in you? Now a days, forget about it. It all sounds like stuff of fairytales. It's not logical and not rational. But, for Baha'is to say that those people only "symbolically" saw Jesus alive after being crucified, and that they only "symbolically" saw tongues of fire, how logical or rational is that?

Luke writing all this stuff is nothing but a liar. It didn't happen. Jesus is dead and Christians lied about it. They said they witnessed him as being alive? No, they are lying. The writers are not trying to be symbolic. They were telling of events that they claim really happened. If they didn't... they are liars. But, Baha'is can't have that. They need something from the NT to be true. Like the Comforter being Muhammad and Baha'u'llah. They need the Three Woes to be Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah. But anything that they can't use for their purposes has to be only "symbolic"?

Fine, then do the same with Greek mythology and the Greek religion. I'm sure you can. Or, the Egyptian religion and its mythology. Or, were those false religions and really... only mythology? Sorry, but I have to agree with Paul. If Jesus hasn't risen from the dead, Christianity is a useless religion. It is filled with false hopes and beliefs. It is mythology that some poor suckers took to be true then added even more false beliefs and forced it on to people. I don't know if Baha'is realize how close they sound to saying something just like that.

 

[CG Didymus]

Silence is golden. live ones life to the teachings as best as one can.

I have not been to church for a while, they had an evangelistic pastor come for a while.

Life is always challenging, finding Islam in the Bible may be your challenge?

Regards Tony

Find it? You already told me where it is. The thing is, it don't make sense. To me, Muhammad is not the Comforter that was promised. He is not one of the Two Witnesses. He is not the first of three Woes. Baha'is have said why they believe he is, but I think their interpretations aren't all that good. But, take heart, I agree with Jews that Jesus didn't fulfill the Messianic prophecies either. And, what's worse, I think a lot of the NT quotes from the Jewish Scriptures are terribly out of context. So, Baha'is are in good company.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Abdul Baha ignores that they saw "tongues" of fire and they began speaking in foreign languages.

In my opinion that is taking tounges of fire and speaking in languages too literally. This is a spiritual metephor to be understood by comparing these words to spiritual understandings.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

There is another aspect we have to consider.

A new Revelation brings about change that all eyes can see, even if they do not know the source of that change.

That seeing the change does not also neccessarly mean accepting the source of the change, these verses were offered about this time.

It is up to each of us to decide how we see these verses;

Acts 13:41 "BEHOLD, YOU SCOFFERS, AND MARVEL, AND PERISH; FOR I AM ACCOMPLISHING A WORK IN YOUR DAYS, A WORK WHICH YOU WILL NEVER BELIEVE, THOUGH SOMEONE SHOULD DESCRIBE IT TO YOU.'"

2 Peter 3:3 "Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,"

How can one mock another Messenger unless the message to mock comes prior?

Regards Tony

Are there false religious teachers and false religions? How do you know they are false? Most people think that their own religion is the standard by which to judge the others. Baha'is have judged all the others as dead and behind the times... to be filled with man-made traditions and having lost sight of the truth of God.

Oh, by the way, it's good to have you posting so much. What's that thing Baha'is say about iron striking iron can lead to a spark of truth. Only problem is, Baha'is believe they are the truth. So the only spark is if the rest of us see the "light" and agree with you.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If Jesus hasn't risen from the dead, Christianity is a useless religion. It is filled with false hopes and beliefs. It is mythology that some poor suckers took to be true then added even more false beliefs and forced it on to people.

Life is a journey and Jesus Christ and the Bible are timeless guidence for all Humanity. Humanity was like a child and now it is throwing of adolescence, it takes time to mature.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

In my opinion that is taking tounges of fire and speaking in languages too literally. This is a spiritual metephor to be understood by comparing these words to spiritual understandings.

Regards Tony

That's the problem. I can take it literal... like I'd like to believe in Santa Claus. Or, I can believe it never happened, but they made it up. But why... would they tell this story about speaking in different languages and have it be a metaphor? Oh, and speaking of making it up, what do you think of the Christian tongue speakers today? I know some of them. They think it's real. I've seen some of them and would swear they are making it up. Same with their "healings".

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Are there false religious teachers and false religions? How do you know they are false? Most people think that their own religion is the standard by which to judge the others. Baha'is have judged all the others as dead and behind the times... to be filled with man-made traditions and having lost sight of the truth of God.

Oh, by the way, it's good to have you posting so much. What's that thing Baha'is say about iron striking iron can lead to a spark of truth. Only problem is, Baha'is believe they are the truth. So the only spark is if the rest of us see the "light" and agree with you.

The Bible gives the tests of a True Prophet and then it is for us to judge.

The words of the Messengers are the standard to judge by. The thing here is that that judgement day has a beginning and an end, that is why all things are made new as per Biblical Prophecy.

The biggest test is time. A Faith that has lasted centuries, must have had a firm foundation. A bad tree is hewn down. A good tree produces good fruit for many a year.

Regards Tony