Who Am I? Again

[A Vestigial Mote]

uh huh. matter is not really solid as you know, yet we consider it more solid than some other states of matter. matter is energy and energy is matter. this has been shown with the photon.

example water can take 3 states solid, liquid, gas. all three are water but all three are different states of matter. all three are based on differences in vibration and density.

States of Matter

we know that consciousness is electro-magnetic

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016...he-has-discovered-magnetic-sixth-sense-humans

Conscious Electromagnetic (CEMI) Field Theory | McFadden | NeuroQuantology


Biomagnetism: Magnetic Fields Produced by the Human Body | Thayer School of Engineering at Dartmouth

Don't stretch so hard, you might pull a muscle.

I can't say I'm surprised... at all. First link contains no mention of consciousness linked to any of the experimentation this "maverick scientist" is doing to test whether or not humans have a magnetic "6th sense" - which, throughout the article, the wording strongly suggests hasn't actually been proven or found. Just look at the bolded/underlined parts of these 2 excerpts:

The mounting scientific evidence for magnetoreception has largely been behavioral, based on patterns of movement, for example, or on tests showing that disrupting or changing magnetic fields can alter animals’ habits. Scientists know that animals can sense the fields, but they do not know how at the cellular and neural level.

“The receptors could be in your left toe,” Kirschvink says. Scientists have come up with two rival ideas about what they might be

Sure sounds a lot like they have no freaking idea as of yet, and admit as much. And here YOU are using this to assert that "the consciousness" is of electro-magnetic composure. Do you even comprehend how ridiculous this makes you, and other "non-skeptics" look? Seriously... you, and others like you in this regard, pull this crap ALL THE TIME. And somehow you are shocked when people are skeptical of your ideas.

Your second link to "NeuroQuantology.com" is a like a low budget B-movie (one of those that relies heavily on the "suspension of disbelief" to make the film passable) when compared to actual scientific informational sites. And Wikipedia wholly backs this assessment in the data entered on its entry - with several key pieces of information about the scientific community's reception of "NeuroQuantology.com". From Wikipedia:

It was established in April 2003 and its subject matter almost immediately dismissed in The Lancet Neurology as "wild invention" and "claptrap".

In the Norwegian Register for Scientific Journals, Series and Publishers, NeuroQuantology has been listed as "Level 0" since 2008, which means that it is not considered scientific and publications in the journal therefore do not fulfill the necessary criteria in order to count for public research funding.

And my absolute favorite:

Neither the Editorial Board nor Advisory Board at NeuroQuantology contains scientists working in the fields of quantum physics or neurology.

Your last link also has nothing to do with consciousness. Its only about magnetic fields produced by the human body. I don't even know why you linked this (did you even watch the video?) because the reasons for the magnetic fields are explained. They are caused by the flow of ions through the blood in BOTH the heart (producing a weak magnetic field around the chest area) and the brain (producing and EVEN WEAKER magnetic field around the skull).

Why do you do this? Why do you link 3 separate, completely disparate pieces of information and pretend they are correlated? For the love of intelligence... please stop.

 

[Fool]

Don't stretch so hard, you might pull a muscle.

I can't say I'm surprised... at all. First link contains no mention of consciousness linked to any of the experimentation this "maverick scientist" is doing to test whether or not humans have a magnetic "6th sense" - which, throughout the article, the wording strongly suggests hasn't actually been proven or found. Just look at the bolded/underlined parts of these 2 excerpts:



Sure sounds a lot like they have no freaking idea as of yet, and admit as much. And here YOU are using this to assert that "the consciousness" is of electro-magnetic composure. Do you even comprehend how ridiculous this makes you, and other "non-skeptics" look? Seriously... you, and others like you in this regard, pull this crap ALL THE TIME. And somehow you are shocked when people are skeptical of your ideas.

Your second link to "NeuroQuantology.com" is a like a low budget B-movie (one of those that relies heavily on the "suspension of disbelief" to make the film passable) when compared to actual scientific informational sites. And Wikipedia wholly backs this assessment in the data entered on its entry - with several key pieces of information about the scientific community's reception of "NeuroQuantology.com". From Wikipedia:



And my absolute favorite:

Your last link also has nothing to do with consciousness. Its only about magnetic fields produced by the human body. I don't even know why you linked this (did you even watch the video?) because the reasons for the magnetic fields are explained. They are caused by the flow of ions through the blood in BOTH the heart (producing a weak magnetic field around the chest area) and the brain (producing and EVEN WEAKER magnetic field around the skull).

Why do you do this? Why do you link 3 separate, completely disparate pieces of information and pretend they are correlated? For the love of intelligence... please stop.

yours is an association fallacy. a brain is not required for consciousness. plants, bacteria, slime-molds have all been shown to have consciousness. a brain with out electro-magnetic qualities is obviously dead.

i'm asserting that consciousness is physical. it's electro-magnetic.

electricity creates magnetic fields and magnetic fields create electricity. consciousness is electro-magnetic. it's physical in itself


Field theories of consciousness - Scholarpedia

we also know that the brain is constantly rewiring itself.

 

[`mud]

Ahhh...electronic pathways of intercoupled connected conductions of magnetic vortices of linked cognizance.
It's called a human body you ignoramus idiots.
Everyone has a `spirit` of some sort, it comes and it goes.
It especially goes when one dies, back to the Stuff.
The Stuff that it came from, some call it `soul`, or `being`.
I call it air and liquid and the Stuff we are composed of.
Nothing `magic` about it, it's called simply Life.
Take a big breath of air, there's Stuff mixing with your's.
Much of your Stuff is someone else's Stuff, say hello to it.
Oh well, go back to your fantasies.... talk to you later.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

yours is an association fallacy. a brain is not required for consciousness. plants, bacteria, slime-molds have all been shown to have consciousness. a brain with out electro-magnetic qualities is obviously dead.

i'm asserting that consciousness is physical. it's electro-magnetic.

electricity creates magnetic fields and magnetic fields create electricity. consciousness is electro-magnetic. it's physical in itself


Field theories of consciousness - Scholarpedia

we also know that the brain is constantly rewiring itself.

You didn't address the complete lack of legitimacy of your originally quoted/linked material. What you posted amounted to nothing more than you making up a story and citing three unrelated or dubious sources. I'm done here. It makes absolutely no sense to continue.

 

[Fool]

Ahhh...electronic pathways of intercoupled connected conductions of magnetic vortices of linked cognizance.
It's called a human body you ignoramus idiots.
Everyone has a `spirit` of some sort, it comes and it goes.
It especially goes when one dies, back to the Stuff.
The Stuff that it came from, some call it `soul`, or `being`.
I call it air and liquid and the Stuff we are composed of.
Nothing `magic` about it, it's called simply Life.
Take a big breath of air, there's Stuff mixing with your's.
Much of your Stuff is someone else's Stuff, say hello to it.
Oh well, go back to your fantasies.... talk to you later.

atom, stuff, is held to gether by charges; which again is electro-magnetic.

 

[`mud]

hey Fool,
Ahhh...that is the valence of everything, isn't it !
It's called Stuff, it's everywhere, enjoy all you can !

 

[gnostic]

It is naive to say that consciousness is property of a living body system. First we do not know what is ‘living’. So to say consciousness is property is of ‘living body’ is wrong, or is saying nothing. And second, a dead body does not exhibit any consciousness. If consciousness was property of body, a dead body would also exhibit it.

Er...no.

Yes, consciousness is shown to exist while a person is alive.

But the part where you say that consciousness should be property of someone who is dead, is wrong, not only clinically, but biologically.

Evidences showed that a dead person has no consciousness.

Consciousness is tied to the person’s perceptions and brain. It doesn’t exist outside of the body, or outside the brain.

I have not seen any evidence to show otherwise.

People who are religious, spiritual and in some philosophies may professed that the consciousness transcends the functionality of the physical brain, but all I see are word games with the usage of “consciousness”, wishful thinkings and sometimes delusions.

 

[Ummer]

No consciousness exist once the person is dead. The ultimate death of a person is brain death. Some people would love to live in a metaphysical world, in that reality is zero.

 

[Milton Platt]

Please read fully. For Vedanta, existence (life)-consciousness is one and the same and it is the subject. Through scientific studies we can understand the objects but we cannot know the subject (which is existence-consciousness) as a third party object.

You require contemplation and mediation to unravel he subject as the subject. Normally we know "I am xyz". We never know "I am", the substantive, the subject, the seer of all objects. Mind mis-identifies the subject with some of the seen objects (such as body) very tightly and this mis-identification grows into a huge false tree.

What is the subject and why is it not an object?

Anyway, you are using the word existence-consciousness.........please define it and show it exists independently of a mind.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

Is a newborn consciously aware of itself. What about those with severe dementia? Certainly beheading victims are not consciously aware of themselves? How about the consciousness in other animals? What level of conscious awareness do they exhibit compared to ours? What role does language play in the internal dialogue? I think this metaphysical sophistry, should stay in the realm of philosophy. Although it can't provide any evidence, it does provide the language to answer questions beyond our scope of understanding.

There is still a lot we don't understand about how the physical brain works. But, there is a hell-of-a-lot that we do understand about how the brain works. The "I" is a zero-dimensional mental representation of the physical brain's best-guess interpretation of its sensory inputs. Our consciousness is the result of sensory processing from different areas throughout the brain. It is our senses that enhance the brain's representation of reality. Close your eyes after looking at the computer. How much detail can your brain represent to the mind? Now open them again. Can you see the difference in imaging? How much detailed reality can the blind perceive? How much of reality will be represented to the conscious mind, from a person who has lost 3 of his senses? Finally, only 5% of the brain's activities is devoted to cognitive awareness(consciousness), and 95% is devoted to the mental programming within our subconscious mind.

You also seem to be ignoring the role that hormones and other chemicals play in altering or enhancing our consciousness. Also, we don't live in the Quantum level of reality. We live in the macro level of reality. Inferring that solid objects are an illusion of the mind, because they are composed mostly of space, is just intellectually dishonest. There are just too many atoms in solids, liquids, or gases, for our senses to ignore perceiving them as hard, wet, and stinks. Our sense organs and brain are not self-stimulating. Since our consciousness is limited to self, there is no object of self. There is only self, including our subjective perspective. We can't step outside of self, to see ourselves as the object of self.

 

[atanu]

Er...no.

Yes, consciousness is shown to exist while a person is alive.

But the part where you say that consciousness should be property of someone who is dead, is wrong, not only clinically, but biologically.

Evidences showed that a dead person has no consciousness.

Consciousness is tied to the person’s perceptions and brain. It doesn’t exist outside of the body, or outside the brain.

I have not seen any evidence to show otherwise.

People who are religious, spiritual and in some philosophies may professed that the consciousness transcends the functionality of the physical brain, but all I see are word games with the usage of “consciousness”, wishful thinkings and sometimes delusions.

Huh huh. And those who say that consciousness is property of a brain they have not even thought what they are saying.

If we say that property of sugar is sweetness, it means whatever be the shape or size of sugar, it will be sweet. So, if we say that consciousness is property of brain, consciousness should accompany the brain always, whether living or dead.
...

 

[atanu]

What is the subject and why is it not an object?

Anyway, you are using the word existence-consciousness.........please define it and show it exists independently of a mind.

What is mind? Can you show it to me?

 

[atanu]

No consciousness exist once the person is dead. The ultimate death of a person is brain death. Some people would love to live in a metaphysical world, in that reality is zero.

How do you know? Do you know what consciousness is in a living person? Can you grasp the “I am” awareness?

All that we do is we see consciousness in objects: body or brain. But these are insentient matter. A dead body or a dead brain does not exhibit any consciousness.

So, how can you say that you know what is consciousness in a living body? And if you do not actually know as to what consciousness actually is how can you claim that it is destroyed with destruction of a body?

Is information ever destroyed? Is intelligence ever destroyed? Intelligence keeps appearing in new and newer forms and bodies, which are vehicles.

 

[atanu]

I am I

That is excellent knowledge, if the latter ‘i’ is the subject.

What I mean is that some meditators speak of unbroken awareness of self, unpuncuated by an object. Such experience is symbolised by “I I”, representing unbroken self awareness.

I doubt that any of us knows that, however.

 

[ChristineM]

That is excellent knowledge, if the latter ‘i’ is the subject.

What I mean is that some meditators speak of unbroken awareness of self, unpuncuated by an object. Such experience is symbolised by “I I”, representing unbroken self awareness.

I doubt that any of us knows that, however.

I am fully aware of who i am. No dreaming required

 

[atanu]

I am fully aware of who i am. No dreaming required

I can only be envious.

 

[`mud]

Ahh..Atanu...
You speak in hyper logical confusion, the `I` of the non-illusive existence of a dead `I` that doesn't have the ability to appreciate the loss of cognition in a non-functioning entity. The `live` `I` that you imagine doesn't have the precognitive recognition of an non-existing `I`. Your very premise of the existence of a pseudo consciousness outside of death is preposterous.
A lot like the circular format of this thread and the blog that I am creating as we speak. The dead are not self aware of themselves, nor are they capable of sensing their loss of cognition, the cognition disappeared with their death. The dead aren't aware that they are even dead, thoughts and mind are also dead, the cognition died with them, the entity of death erased the possibility of projected awareness. See...it get's circular rapidly doesn't it ? What happens to the Stuff from what we were made. Where does it go ? What is name of that Stuff...could it be `spirit`? Or maybe even loosely, `soul` ? Where does it go ?
In the afterlife it becomes other Stuff, san cognition, self awareness, sensibilities, or abilities. It's just the Stuff of Life's being, the furtherance of Life's progression, the next Life.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

Ahh..Atanu...
You speak in hyper logical confusion, the `I` of the non-illusive existence of a dead `I` that doesn't have the ability to appreciate the loss of cognition in a non-functioning entity. The `live` `I` that you imagine doesn't have the precognitive recognition of an non-existing `I`. Your very premise of the existence of a pseudo consciousness outside of death is preposterous.
A lot like the circular format of this thread and the blog that I am creating as we speak. The dead are not self aware of themselves, nor are they capable of sensing their loss of cognition, the cognition disappeared with their death. The dead aren't aware that they are even dead, thoughts and mind are also dead, the cognition died with them, the entity of death erased the possibility of projected awareness. See...it get's circular rapidly doesn't it ? What happens to the Stuff from what we were made. Where does it go ? What is name of that Stuff...could it be `spirit`? Or maybe even loosely, `soul` ? Where does it go ?
In the afterlife it becomes other Stuff, san cognition, self awareness, sensibilities, or abilities. It's just the Stuff of Life's being, the furtherance of Life's progression, the next Life.

Nothing on this planet, or in the Universe, can escapes the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, Entropy(measure of disorder), and Oxidation. When we die, our stuff will simply go from a low entropy state(order), to a higher entropy state(disorder). Thus increasing the total entropy of the Universe. There are no conscious states of awareness without a functional brain. There is no self-awareness without functional sense organs connected to the brain. Except maybe the humble jellyfish.

 

[`mud]

hey Truly,
In simplicity: ~Stuff becomes Other Stuff~
Now the jellyfish itself is the sensory organ,
and it, in itself, doesn't have cognizance,
does it ?

 

[atanu]

Ahh..Atanu...
You speak in hyper logical confusion, the `I` of the non-illusive existence of a dead `I` that doesn't have the ability to appreciate the loss of cognition in a non-functioning entity. The `live` `I` that you imagine doesn't have the precognitive recognition of an non-existing `I`. Your very premise of the existence of a pseudo consciousness outside of death is preposterous.
A lot like the circular format of this thread and the blog that I am creating as we speak. The dead are not self aware of themselves, nor are they capable of sensing their loss of cognition, the cognition disappeared with their death. The dead aren't aware that they are even dead, thoughts and mind are also dead, the cognition died with them, the entity of death erased the possibility of projected awareness. See...it get's circular rapidly doesn't it ? What happens to the Stuff from what we were made. Where does it go ? What is name of that Stuff...could it be `spirit`? Or maybe even loosely, `soul` ? Where does it go ?
In the afterlife it becomes other Stuff, san cognition, self awareness, sensibilities, or abilities. It's just the Stuff of Life's being, the furtherance of Life's progression, the next Life.

Who talked of death? Who dies?

OP is about discriminating between conscious subject “I am” (pure awareness of existence) versus “I am xyz”, wherein ‘xyz’ is composite of insentient objects.