How does consciousness interact with the brain?

[tayla]

How does consciousness interact with the brain?

Assuming dualism; that consciousness is not merely an illusion created by brain complexity, nor an emergent property caused by the neural network.

Seems there is two way communication:

1. From brain to consciousness: after receiving sensory information and preprocessing it.
2. From consciousness to brain: to command the brain to trigger bodily activity, or thought, or whatever.

I'm hoping to locate a specific mechanism for the communication, perhaps something involving quantum mechanics.

Also, should we consider not merely conscious activity but also unconscious mental activity since this occurs without being conscious?

 

[Valjean]

Consciousness is the ultimate question. We know almost nothing about it. The few "theories" floating around are pretty much untested and have low confidence levels,

 

[Nakosis]

How does consciousness interact with the brain?

Consciousness seems to function as a directed chaos in the brain. When you're unconscious neural information takes the most direct route through the brain. When you are conscious, the information travels via every possible route. through the brain.

Almost like an omniscience of the brain I'd think. When you're unconscious, touch gets dealt with by the parts of the brain only related to touch. When your awake, all parts of the brain get involved. Memories, sounds, sight etc... Any stimulus creates a virtual experience for the brain along with the original stimulus information.

They said there is a critical level of this chaos in the brain necessary to exist before consciousness can occur. Like when you have dreams, there is some additional interaction going on with the various parts of the brain but you are still not fully conscious.

Neuronal Basis Of Consciousness Explored In New Study

 

[joe1776]

How does consciousness interact with the brain?

Assuming dualism; that consciousness is not merely an illusion created by brain complexity, nor an emergent property caused by the neural network.

Seems there is two way communication:

1. From brain to consciousness: after receiving sensory information and preprocessing it.
2. From consciousness to brain: to command the brain to trigger bodily activity, or thought, or whatever.

I'm hoping to locate a specific mechanism for the communication, perhaps something involving quantum mechanics.

Also, should we consider not merely conscious activity but also unconscious mental activity since this occurs without being conscious?

I can't answer your specific questions but..

While bedridden and bored once, I did some self-experimenting, asking my unconscious to explain the conscious and unconscious states. I got this which might be of some help to you.

Imagine a house at night. The interior is artificially lit. Outside in the darkness lurks a faceless, powerful creature. The powerful creature is the unconscious which operates full-time 24/7. It is faceless, I presume, because it cannot form intent.

The artificially lit interior represents consciousness when we are awake. The walls of the house, I think, represent a barrier within the brain which separates consciousness from the unconscious which exists within a boundless, mysterious, greater reality (represented by the night sky).

 

[Valjean]

Consciousness seems to function as a directed chaos in the brain. When you're unconscious neural information takes the most direct route through the brain. When you are conscious, the information travels via every possible route. through the brain.

Almost like an omniscience of the brain I'd think. When you're unconscious, touch gets dealt with by the parts of the brain only related to touch. When your awake, all parts of the brain get involved. Memories, sounds, sight etc... Any stimulus creates a virtual experience for the brain along with the original stimulus information.

They said there is a critical level of this chaos in the brain necessary to exist before consciousness can occur. Like when you have dreams, there is some additional interaction going on with the various parts of the brain but you are still not fully conscious.

Neuronal Basis Of Consciousness Explored In New Study

Is it a neurological artifact generated within and by the brain, or an external 'stuff' mediated through the brain?

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

I'm hoping to locate a specific mechanism for the communication, perhaps something involving quantum mechanics.

You would first have to define what consciousness is, then you could start to see how that consciousness could interact with matter.

Also, should we consider not merely conscious activity but also unconscious mental activity since this occurs without being conscious?

I think you could lump it all together. With dualism, I don't think anyone is saying that the conscious and subconscious are separate things.

 

[Sunstone]

I think consciousness is most likely something that evolved in us, and that it is probably an emergent property of the brain.

Near as I can see, it's evolution was driven by at least two functions. First its role in foresight and planning, and second its role in self-defense.

Consciousness allows us to envision possible futures and plan responses to them. Beyond that, it creates a sense of self that is essential to some -- but not to all -- forms of self-defense. If you throw a rock at my head I will reflexively duck with or without consciousness. But if you tell me you're going to pee on my roses a week from now, I will need consciousness first to see that as a threat to "me" and second to plan an adequate response to your scheme.

I take the fact it seems to have natural functions that could account for its evolution to be evidence of one degree or another for consciousness as an emergent property of the brain.

 

[George-ananda]

How does consciousness interact with the brain?

Assuming dualism; that consciousness is not merely an illusion created by brain complexity, nor an emergent property caused by the neural network.

Seems there is two way communication:

1. From brain to consciousness: after receiving sensory information and preprocessing it.
2. From consciousness to brain: to command the brain to trigger bodily activity, or thought, or whatever.

I'm hoping to locate a specific mechanism for the communication, perhaps something involving quantum mechanics.

Also, should we consider not merely conscious activity but also unconscious mental activity since this occurs without being conscious?

Good questions.

This subject is explained in Vedic and western (theosophical) traditions. I'll try to explain in a nutshell to the best of my knowledge and abilities..

We are not just a physical body. We also have (names differ by tradition) etheric, astral and mental bodies interpenetrating the physical body. The non-physical bodies are in dimensions beyond our familiar three and matter in those higher realms are at a vibratory rate orders of magnitude greater than the physical. These higher realms are not directly detectable by our physical senses and instruments (kind of like dark matter).

Now thought actually originates on the mental plane of nature and through the process of sympathetic vibrations is carried down through the gradually denser planes to the gross physical brain. Events in the physical body are carried upward to through a similar process.

You asked about wanting to tie this in with quantum mechanics. I would speculate the 'spooky' behavior of quantum mechanics actually involve dimensions not directly detectable by our physical senses and instruments. One theory is that quantum behavior occurs in the neuronal micro-tubules in the physical brain but this is getting in over my head at that point.

I'll add that consciousness is non-physical and is the experiencer of all this vibrating matter that it incarnates.

 

[Twilight Hue]

How does consciousness interact with the brain?

Assuming dualism; that consciousness is not merely an illusion created by brain complexity, nor an emergent property caused by the neural network.

Seems there is two way communication:

1. From brain to consciousness: after receiving sensory information and preprocessing it.
2. From consciousness to brain: to command the brain to trigger bodily activity, or thought, or whatever.

I'm hoping to locate a specific mechanism for the communication, perhaps something involving quantum mechanics.

Also, should we consider not merely conscious activity but also unconscious mental activity since this occurs without being conscious?

Consciousness is reactive chemistry through stimulus. It's what referred to as active matter. Besides Consciousness is on par with seeing or thinking, it's not an actual thing.

 

[David T]

How does consciousness interact with the brain?

Assuming dualism; that consciousness is not merely an illusion created by brain complexity, nor an emergent property caused by the neural network.

Seems there is two way communication:

1. From brain to consciousness: after receiving sensory information and preprocessing it.
2. From consciousness to brain: to command the brain to trigger bodily activity, or thought, or whatever.

I'm hoping to locate a specific mechanism for the communication, perhaps something involving quantum mechanics.

Also, should we consider not merely conscious activity but also unconscious mental activity since this occurs without being conscious?

In multiple ways.
1. It pretends it is independent of it.
2. It pretends its a fiction of it.
3. It pretends its a chemical reaction of it.
There are probably many more.

Apparently lots of pretending going on with disagreements which pretend is fact.

At least there is agreement pretending is fundamental.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I see consciousness more related to our evolved ability to have memories - from the simplest imagery to eventually forming narratives - and then to forming judgment and thoughts based on such. Eventually giving rise to our experiencing the hear and now. So an emergent property of the brain.

 

[Nakosis]

Is it a neurological artifact generated within and by the brain, or an external 'stuff' mediated through the brain?

That's a really good question. I don't know but I don't believe so. I've only heard about two types of artifacts. Those that originate external to the body and those that originate from the body, external from the brain.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

These higher realms are not directly detectable by our physical senses and instruments (kind of like dark matter).

Dark matter is detectable. We use gravitational lensing and the spin rates of galaxies to detect it. Dark matter is also within our plain of existence and entirely physical. I'm not sure that is the best analogy.

If these higher realms interact with the physical then they can be detected by those interactions. By interacting with the physical realm they become physical themselves. Therefore, it isn't enough to say that they are undetectable because that only leads to the conclusion that they aren't affecting humans. You need a physical mechanism whereby these higher realms cause effects in this realm.

You asked about wanting to tie this in with quantum mechanics. I would speculate the 'spooky' behavior of quantum mechanics actually involve dimensions not directly detectable by our physical senses and instruments. One theory is that quantum behavior occurs in the neuronal micro-tubules in the physical brain but this is getting in over my head at that point.

How do they interact at the quantum level? What types of observations should we make in experiments when these higher realms interact at the quantum level as compared to when they are not interacting?

 

[George-ananda]

Dark matter is detectable. We use gravitational lensing and the spin rates of galaxies to detect it. Dark matter is also within our plain of existence and entirely physical. I'm not sure that is the best analogy.

I said dark matter is not directly detectable by our physical senses and instruments. And that is true. It is indirectly detectable, yes.

If these higher realms interact with the physical then they can be detected by those interactions. By interacting with the physical realm they become physical themselves. Therefore, it isn't enough to say that they are undetectable because that only leads to the conclusion that they aren't affecting humans. You need a physical mechanism whereby these higher realms cause effects in this realm.

It may well be at the quantum level where the seemingly 'spooky' physical behavior has its origin in higher realms.

How do they interact at the quantum level? What types of observations should we make in experiments when these higher realms interact at the quantum level as compared to when they are not interacting?

That question is above my pay level and science at this time.

My belief in the existence of the higher realms comes from my study of so-called paranormal phenomena. The science may come in this next century. Post-materialist science is already a thing but I am no expert in that science.

 

[Gohelwan alien Vega 17b]

dmap I really like your topic. Consciousness is Attention, Focus, Awareness. In my experiments Consciousness seems to only be present in highly functional sense after one has coffee. just kidding. So I read in one persons work that Consciousness is interactive with the brain. The brain is like a limiting of consciousness or better yet it narrows the breadth of consciousness down like tuning in on a particular radio station. Some things that's interesting about consciousness is the following. We don't become emotional by eating emotional food. Like I'm not angry by eating an angry orange so at least emotion doesn't seem to be material. Another thing is that we can not locate where the information to recall given memories is stored. Scientists have not found in the brain a storage for information that goes about initiating recall of certain memories. Why we remember something at all at any given time is just not truly known. No one has found storage of information that would trigger given memories over any other. Maybe they will one day but now it is a total mystery.

 

[tayla]

We are not just a physical body. We also have (names differ by tradition) etheric, astral and mental bodies interpenetrating the physical body. The non-physical bodies are in dimensions beyond our familiar three and matter in those higher realms are at a vibratory rate orders of magnitude greater than the physical. These higher realms are not directly detectable by our physical senses and instruments (kind of like dark matter).

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

Yes, I agree we have a body (or bodies) in the spiritual realm(s), a body that loosely correlates with our physical body. I think we have glimpses of this body from time to time, for example in our dreams. But generally we are not conscious of its activities.

This raises another nagging question: why are we not conscious of the activities of our mental life or soul? Seems odd to me that our soul is so blind.

 

[tayla]

Now thought actually originates on the mental plane of nature and through the process of sympathetic vibrations is carried down through the gradually denser planes to the gross physical brain. Events in the physical body are carried upward to through a similar process.

Somehow this explanation is not sufficient. What is it in the physical body that vibrates? How are messages and information encoded in this vibration? Why can't science detect these vibrations? (Dark matter is detected via its gravitational effects.)

 

[tayla]

One theory is that quantum behavior occurs in the neuronal micro-tubules in the physical brain

Yes, this is an interesting idea which I am familiar with.

 

[tayla]

I'll add that consciousness is non-physical and is the experiencer

Yes, I totally agree.

 

[tayla]

They said there is a critical level of this chaos in the brain necessary to exist before consciousness can occur.

Yes, thanks for the interesting (but too short) article.