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The Rapid Decline of Christianity in the USA

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I believe God is very intolerant and you will certainly find that out personally.
And, also to add, it is this intolerance of god that made me absolutely miserable, to the point of wanting to die and a suicide attempt. When god was in my life, I nearly didn't survive my teens. And, without god and his intolerance, I even began to eventually appreciate just being alive, and enough caring enough to care about the things I eat.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
ACCORDING TO CHRISTIANITY, Christians are more moral than atheists.
ACCORDING TO CHRISTIANITY, Christians should refrain from looking for faults in others and instead consider their own faults.

Also ACCORDING TO CHRISTIANITY, judging others is reserved for God alone.

"Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls."
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
ACCORDING TO CHRISTIANITY, Christians should refrain from looking for faults in others and instead consider their own faults.

Also ACCORDING TO CHRISTIANITY, judging others is reserved for God alone.

"Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls."

Thanks for quoting Romans. I will try, going forward, not to judge the devil's servants.
 

Hawkins

Well-Known Member
When has Bible prophecy ever been useful? High quality prophecy is useful. If your prophecies are useless, they are trivial.

Can you give me a biblical prophecy that was useful?

Christianity is fading because its message seems irrelevant, and its public face very off putting.

The usefulness of the prophecies is that it gives the believers the abundance while removing everything from the the unbelievers. That's what Jesus said.

Message is irrelevant? Don't sound as if you know what could possibly happen after a physical death. Religions are all tied up to the unknown that what lies behind our death. That's how the advocate of salvation concerns everyone. Of course, it's irrelevant by your faith to believe that nothing could possibly happen. With this faith at hand then it's irrelevant. However in the end it's just another belief, not fact.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Don't sound as if you know what could possibly happen after a physical death.
No one knows what happens when we shed this mortal coil and go to that undiscovered country from whose bourn no traveler returns.
That's how the advocate of salvation concerns everyone
It doesn't concern me. Concerns me no more than whatever was headline news in China 100 years ago.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Heterosexuals don't go through the same thing; they aren't called abominations in the Bible, the Bible doesn't say they should be put to death and their blood is on their hands, and heterosexuals are not berated and degraded the way LBGT people are. Heterosexual sex is just a sin, and no one attempts to use dangerous methods to "cure" it. Homosexual sex, however, is viewed and treated as worse.

I believe we are not bound by OT law. I don't know any Christians who think such people should be mistreated.

I believe this has more to do with a lack of admittance by them that it is a sin.

I believe it is worse. It might come in a little bit better than rape although there is an OT story about a man who would prefer the men rape his daughter than assault a Levite man.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I believe we are not bound by OT law. I don't know any Christians who think such people should be mistreated.
The Gospels record--three times at least--that Jesus said nothing of law has been done away with, not until all things have been fulfilled, and he gave things during his life that have not yet been fulfilled.
The current VP, Mike Pence, a Catholic who describes himself as a "Christian. Conservative. Republican. In that order." has tried to use his position as governor to protect religious-based discrimination as a right while lowering, primarily LBGT targets, to a status below those who would have otherwise had legally protected discrimination "rights," just so long as it is conducted on the basis of "sincerely held religious beliefs."
I believe this has more to do with a lack of admittance by them that it is a sin.
That has nothing to do with it. At worst, for heterosexuals, the Bible says that Jesus said a man who looks upon a woman with lust has committed adultery in his heart. It doesn't say though that heterosexual adultery is an abomination, detestable, and the only ones to be put to death over it are women who are found to not be a virgin on their wedding night (via a "test" that is in no way reliable for determining the virginity or lack of in a woman).
I believe it is worse. It might come in a little bit better than rape although there is an OT story about a man who would prefer the men rape his daughter than assault a Levite man.
And this is where the torment of LBGT youth in Conservative churches begin. Jesus said "Judge not" and "Let he who is without guilt cast the first stone," yet everywhere else LBGT "sins" are judged worse by Christians, they are degraded moreso than other sins. Here you are, even, saying that a loving and consensual sexual relationship is just "a little bit better" than a violent, heinous, and non-consensual sexual assault. How do you suppose such thinking makes LBGT teens feel?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The current VP, Mike Pence, a Catholic who describes himself as a "Christian. Conservative. Republican. In that order."
He grew up Catholic but does not attend a Catholic church and belonged to Grace Evangelical Church, which is a mega-church. His last public statement on this was in 2013 whereas he said that he and his family were looking for a new church to go to.

More can be found here: Mike Pence - Wikipedia
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
ACCORDING TO CHRISTIANITY, Christians are more moral than atheists.
This makes no sense. What do you mean by "according to christianity"? Of course Christianity is going to say that, as they are biased. It is necessary to take a step back and think. Being Christian doesn't mean that you necessary follow the rules of Christianity or the Commandments. There are plenty of Christians who don't even follow Jesus' most important commandment, treating others how you would like to be treated.

In short, being Christian in no way means that you follow the commandments, necessarily. It merely means that one has received Christian baptism and believes in Jesus and his teachings. You don't have to follow the teachings to believe in them.

Chris·tian
ˈkrisCHən/
noun
  1. a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings.
 

Vaderecta

Active Member
Reading this thread has made me think the bible is like the harry potters series except we can still ask and question the author. Do people not realize how the bible came to be packaged in whatever form they are currently consuming it in?
 

1AOA1

Active Member
Does the OP mean declining Christians or decline of Christianity (decline of economists versus decline of an economy)?
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
This makes no sense. What do you mean by "according to christianity"? Of course Christianity is going to say that, as they are biased. It is necessary to take a step back and think. Being Christian doesn't mean that you necessary follow the rules of Christianity or the Commandments. There are plenty of Christians who don't even follow Jesus' most important commandment, treating others how you would like to be treated.

In short, being Christian in no way means that you follow the commandments, necessarily. It merely means that one has received Christian baptism and believes in Jesus and his teachings. You don't have to follow the teachings to believe in them.

Chris·tian
ˈkrisCHən/
noun
  1. a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings.

I think we're missing the original point.

Christians follow these commandments consistently far more than atheists:

1) One God

2) No idols

3) Honor Shabbat

4) Don't misuse God's name

5) Swear only true witness in the name of God

That's only 5 of the decalogue but with a maximal 50% score, atheists fail the class.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
1) One God
Actually, the commandment is not to have any other God besides God. Atheists actually do this quite well, as they don't believe in any deities.
2) No idols
Atheists do not worship idols either, so they probably do better on this one than Christians. They don't believe in any supernatural deities, including idol worship.
3) Honor Shabbat
It would be incredibly unreasonable for God to judge atheists for not keeping the sabbath when they do not believe that scripture has any merit whatsoever.
4) Don't misuse God's name
Christians do this just as much as atheists. And, it's a lot less worse when atheists do it, as they don't believe that God exists in any way shape or form. So they don't think they are offending anything.
5) Swear only true witness in the name of God
This is just patently false. Atheists and Christians alike say "swear to God" just as much. And, dishonesty is not something that is directly associated with atheism or christianity in any way. So, it stands to reason that this is a toss up, violated by both atheists and christians in more or less equal amounts. And, don't forget that it would be unreasonable to expect someone who does not believe in God to follow his law beyond being honest.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Actually, the commandment is not to have any other God besides God. Atheists actually do this quite well, as they don't believe in any deities.

Atheists do not worship idols either, so they probably do better on this one than Christians. They don't believe in any supernatural deities, including idol worship.

It would be incredibly unreasonable for God to judge atheists for not keeping the sabbath when they do not believe that scripture has any merit whatsoever.

Christians do this just as much as atheists. And, it's a lot less worse when atheists do it, as they don't believe that God exists in any way shape or form. So they don't think they are offending anything.
This is just patently false. Atheists and Christians alike say "swear to God" just as much. And, dishonesty is not something that is directly associated with atheism or christianity in any way. So, it stands to reason that this is a toss up, violated by both atheists and christians in more or less equal amounts. And, don't forget that it would be unreasonable to expect someone who does not believe in God to follow his law beyond being honest.

I did read all of your arguments, and I can conditionally accept them, except for this one:

It would be incredibly unreasonable for God to judge atheists for not keeping the sabbath when they do not believe that scripture has any merit whatsoever.

I can find in the Bible where ignorance of a law is indeed an excuse, but I cannot find where willful disbelief (I know the Bible says to honor the Sabbath, but God can go fly a kite regarding the Sabbath) is an excuse.

Is it reasonable for you to forgive an ignorant omission? Yes. Is it reasonable for you to forgive without consequence willful disobedience? No.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
I did read all of your arguments, and I can conditionally accept them, except for this one:



I can find in the Bible where ignorance of a law is indeed an excuse, but I cannot find where willful disbelief (I know the Bible says to honor the Sabbath, but God can go fly a kite regarding the Sabbath) is an excuse.

Is it reasonable for you to forgive an ignorant omission? Yes. Is it reasonable for you to forgive without consequence willful disobedience? No.
But, atheists are 100% in the "ignorance of the law" crew, as they do not believe that the Bible has any merit. Thus, the claims made in the Bible about God wanting us to keep holy the sabbath (etc.) have no merit. In other words, atheists do not believe that God ordered us to keep holy the sabbath, as they do not believe that God even exists.

It is impossible to willfully disobey a god that you do not believe exists. Atheists do not believe that the claims made in the Bible regarding God's will have any merit whatsoever.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
I did read all of your arguments, and I can conditionally accept them, except for this one:



I can find in the Bible where ignorance of a law is indeed an excuse, but I cannot find where willful disbelief (I know the Bible says to honor the Sabbath, but God can go fly a kite regarding the Sabbath) is an excuse.

Is it reasonable for you to forgive an ignorant omission? Yes. Is it reasonable for you to forgive without consequence willful disobedience? No.
Those who do not believe that God exists in any way do not have knowledge of any of God's demands. To them, they are merely demands made up by imperfect, unknown men thousands of years ago. Thus, to them, they are of absolutely no importance whatsoever.

If I told you that every Tuesday you had to wear a hat all day because God says so, would you do it? Of course not. You wouldn't just take my word for it, and you wouldn't believe that God had ordered it. The same is true for Atheists and the Bible. They don't think that God had anything to do with it. So, the commandments in it are not God created.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
But, atheists are 100% in the "ignorance of the law" crew, as they do not believe that the Bible has any merit. Thus, the claims made in the Bible about God wanting us to keep holy the sabbath (etc.) have no merit. In other words, atheists do not believe that God ordered us to keep holy the sabbath, as they do not believe that God even exists.

It is impossible to willfully disobey a god that you do not believe exists. Atheists do not believe that the claims made in the Bible regarding God's will have any merit whatsoever.

I do agree that it is impossible to willfully disobey a god you disbelieve in.

So let's go with "God will judge all people who disobey their moral conscience, which prompts them to believe in God, accept Christ and not sin."
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Those who do not believe that God exists in any way do not have knowledge of any of God's demands. To them, they are merely demands made up by imperfect, unknown men thousands of years ago. Thus, to them, they are of absolutely no importance whatsoever.

If I told you that every Tuesday you had to wear a hat all day because God says so, would you do it? Of course not. You wouldn't just take my word for it, and you wouldn't believe that God had ordered it. The same is true for Atheists and the Bible. They don't think that God had anything to do with it. So, the commandments in it are not God created.

Fortunately, a good deal of those commands are internalized. I say that human conscience prompts us to carry the Law or else feel guilt for our successes and failures two ways: loving God, loving man.

I mean, I've read testimonies at this very forum of atheists who were formerly very sad because they felt guilty committing certain sins and then when they threw off the God shackle and stopped towing the weight--gosh, they just FELT better. Other ways we can assuage guilt: drinking, pot, running headfirst into walls, obeying God, receiving Jesus as Savior! :)
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
I do agree that it is impossible to willfully disobey a god you disbelieve in.

So let's go with "God will judge all people who disobey their moral conscience, which prompts them to believe in God, accept Christ and not sin."
But, our moral conscience certainly does not automatically prompt us to believe in the Abrahamic God and accept Christ. If you think it does, what proof can you provide?
 
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