Why would a god need middlemen?

[JustWondering]

It seems obvious to me that revealed religions are bogus. Why would a god not announce it's desires and demands directly to the people? Isn't it blatantly obvious that anyone claiming to talk on behalf of a god is either insane or a con artist? If an old man who lived in your neighborhood disappeared for a week and then returned with a stone tablet he chiseled commandments into and claimed he spoke to god, would you believe him?

 

[joshuapecci]

Anything that happens in the physical realm is drama, a part of the movie we watch.

What we really are, deep down, is a spirit, sitting back and viewing these phenomena until we live out our karma.

"Everything flourishes; each returns to its root. Returning to the root is called tranquility"

God doesn't need anything. It's a gift and an opportunity to return to the source of all creation.

 

[George-ananda]

Why would a god need middlemen?


Although the question was clearly addressing Abrahamic like religions, I'll answer from my non-dual (God and creation are not-two) eastern perspective.

The goal of a spiritual life is too become more and more in-tune with the Oneness that is the ultimate reality. Those physical and non-physical beings who are more advanced (middlemen) aid and teach.

 

[gnostic]

Apparently, even god needs to delegate works, so that god get his much-needed siesta.

After all, God needs to rest every 7th day.

 

[princessarachne]

For the most part, they are (IMO).

I think that God doesn't need a middle man. They (God) speak to us indirectly through natural phenomena (The stars and planets, for example). When they speak through people, there is a chance of corruption through one's ego-self, or the desire for fame and power. This could be why some cult leaders originally had good ideas but later ended up doing horrible things.

But only Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Bahai, and Islam are revealed. Even Christianity is questionable because at one point it was a mystery religion and people were called to find God on their own. It was more like a theistic Buddhism than it was the Christianity we see today. We can thank the church for burning all the real Christians and instituting a corrupt organization in their place.

In my experience, God is more than happy to talk to you if you approach them with respect and dignity. Doing that means being kind to the God in the earth, the God in all life, and the God in yourself. Think about it. If someone was really abusive and said all kinds of nasty things to you, would you want to talk to them or avoid them?

This is why, I think, Atheists can't "see" God for themselves. It's not because they believe or don't believe, it's because of what they say and do. (I was raised in an anti-religious household and every atheist I knew was super hateful)

As a Gnostic, I really believe the only way to answer theological questions is to observe spiritual phenomena, reserving judgement and dogma, and come up with an explanation. Not everyone is going to agree, obviously, but our sense of logic and cognitive ability is incredibly weak compared to the vast array of spiritual beings I have encountered. Not everyone is going to understand this.

Many ardent atheists I know are not arrogant but spiritually young. It takes many lifetimes to pull your head out of MEST (Matter, Energy, Space-time) and see the spiritual world. Just as a two-year-old is mentally incapable of understanding calculus, spiritually young people are incapable of understanding spirit.

TL;DR: You need to live many times to answer this question, or any question you have about spirituality. No matter how eloquently someone explains the answer to you, it is unlikely that you will understand or agree because you are likely too spiritually young.

 

[Super Universe]

It seems obvious to me that revealed religions are bogus. Why would a god not announce it's desires and demands directly to the people? Isn't it blatantly obvious that anyone claiming to talk on behalf of a god is either insane or a con artist? If an old man who lived in your neighborhood disappeared for a week and then returned with a stone tablet he chiseled commandments into and claimed he spoke to god, would you believe him?

Because you not knowing is the reason for the universe to exist. You don't know so God can have an new free will personality experience. That doesn't happen if you know God exists and you know what comes next.

Why would God need middlemen? He doesn't need them, He chose to use them. God only does the things that only God can do.

 

[Nakosis]

It seems obvious to me that revealed religions are bogus. Why would a god not announce it's desires and demands directly to the people? Isn't it blatantly obvious that anyone claiming to talk on behalf of a god is either insane or a con artist? If an old man who lived in your neighborhood disappeared for a week and then returned with a stone tablet he chiseled commandments into and claimed he spoke to god, would you believe him?

Probably because God doesn't exist.

I don't however believe they were con artists. I think most believe they were actually spokesmen for God. BTW men? Why no spokeswomen?

Maybe women folks are less filled with their own self-rightness...

If a person has even a casual beliefs in gods, demons, aliens, the subconscious mind is quite capable of providing a pretty realistic experience that can be interpreted to support that belief.

 

[Kemosloby]

It seems obvious to me that revealed religions are bogus. Why would a god not announce it's desires and demands directly to the people? Isn't it blatantly obvious that anyone claiming to talk on behalf of a god is either insane or a con artist? If an old man who lived in your neighborhood disappeared for a week and then returned with a stone tablet he chiseled commandments into and claimed he spoke to god, would you believe him?

Why did God let Adam name the animals? God could have named the animals and told Adam what their names were. Interaction between God and man seems to please God, so why not have middlemen?

He might even like it more since you don't like it that way.

 

[princessarachne]

If a person has even a casual beliefs in gods, demons, aliens, the subconscious mind is quite capable of providing a pretty realistic experience that can be interpreted to support that belief.

What empirical evidence do you have to support this scientifically verifiable claim?

 

[princessarachne]

Oh also, never forget this: Jesus may have been a mass illusion rather than a real person. I believe God is all-powerful in the sense that they can tinker with the way we perceive reality. That is, God caused everyone to see, touch, and hear Jesus, but he wasn't actually human. We can't perceive God because they transcend the boundaries of MEST. We are only equipped to understand MEST.

Thus, no middleman. God is speaking to us directly.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It seems obvious to me that revealed religions are bogus. Why would a god not announce it's desires and demands directly to the people? Isn't it blatantly obvious that anyone claiming to talk on behalf of a god is either insane or a con artist? If an old man who lived in your neighborhood disappeared for a week and then returned with a stone tablet he chiseled commandments into and claimed he spoke to god, would you believe him?

God doesn't need middlemen. Men make middlemen to understand god because it lets them see god as a reflection of themselves and what they best understand. Unless you believe in god and can let us know how god used middlemen, it all comes from man. The other way around, really.

Though I see it in a positive light. I thought the thread would be more thought provoking.

 

[bobhikes]

It seems obvious to me that revealed religions are bogus. Why would a god not announce it's desires and demands directly to the people? Isn't it blatantly obvious that anyone claiming to talk on behalf of a god is either insane or a con artist? If an old man who lived in your neighborhood disappeared for a week and then returned with a stone tablet he chiseled commandments into and claimed he spoke to god, would you believe him?

For God faith is important and personal choice. If God came down and spoke directly to you, you wouldn't need faith and you wouldn't have choice.

 

[Thief]

It seems obvious to me that revealed religions are bogus. Why would a god not announce it's desires and demands directly to the people? Isn't it blatantly obvious that anyone claiming to talk on behalf of a god is either insane or a con artist? If an old man who lived in your neighborhood disappeared for a week and then returned with a stone tablet he chiseled commandments into and claimed he spoke to god, would you believe him?

there is a good deal more to the story of Moses than a week of vacation and stone carving

 

[Thief]

Why would a god need middlemen?


Although the question was clearly addressing Abrahamic like religions, I'll answer from my non-dual (God and creation are not-two) eastern perspective.

The goal of a spiritual life is too become more and more in-tune with the Oneness that is the ultimate reality. Those physical and non-physical beings who are more advanced (middlemen) aid and teach.

so...once you are dead.....
the person I am posting to is no longer part of the creation?

 

[Nakosis]

What empirical evidence do you have to support this scientifically verifiable claim?

Do you ever have dreams? Hopefully the answer is yes or else this is going to fall a little short.

You dream about other folks. They do things say things. Are you consciously controlling anything they say or do? I'm assuming you've experienced this.

They seem completely autonomous, not under your personal control. So we know in a dream state at least the subconscious mind is capable of creating the experience of interacting with autonomous beings.

Did you know the color pink doesn't actually exist. However your subconscious mind creates the experience of seeing pink. So the subconscious mind is capable of causing you to see something that isn't there.

Your conscious self is dealing with only 2 to 3% of your mind. What going on in the other 97%, you're completely unaware of. The reality you perceive is all filtered by you subconscious mind. Consciously, you get a fraction of the sensory input that the central nervous system is capable of.

All of this should be pretty easy for you to Google and verify, that plus your own experiences should be enough to validate what I'm saying.

Now I'm not saying this is proof there is no God. I'm just saying the subconscious mind is quite capable of providing a spiritual experience.

 

[Skwim]

Why did God let Adam name the animals? God could have named the animals and told Adam what their names were. Interaction between God and man seems to please God, so why not have middlemen?

He might even like it more since you don't like it that way.

This kind of apologetic is the whole point. The Christian concept of god is so fraught with contradiction and incongruity that in order to justify it Christians are driven to say the darnedest things; some amusing, some beyond reason, and others outright silly.

.

 

[princessarachne]

Do you ever have dreams? Hopefully the answer is yes or else this is going to fall a little short.

You dream about other folks. They do things say things. Are you consciously controlling anything they say or do? I'm assuming you've experienced this.

They seem completely autonomous, not under your personal control. So we know in a dream state at least the subconscious mind is capable of creating the experience of interacting with autonomous beings.

Did you know the color pink doesn't actually exist. However your subconscious mind creates the experience of seeing pink. So the subconscious mind is capable of causing you to see something that isn't there.

Your conscious self is dealing with only 2 to 3% of your mind. What going on in the other 97%, you're completely unaware of. The reality you perceive is all filtered by you subconscious mind. Consciously, you get a fraction of the sensory input that the central nervous system is capable of.

All of this should be pretty easy for you to Google and verify, that plus your own experiences should be enough to validate what I'm saying.

Now I'm not saying this is proof there is no God. I'm just saying the subconscious mind is quite capable of providing a spiritual experience.

This sounds more like psycho-flapdoodle as opposed to actual science. I meant linking me to a study or report or something.

Empirical evidence would be something like:

"Recent neuroscientists have established that all-consuming euphoria reported by Christian monks is identical to that induced by electrical stimulation of the amygdala"

I do not know of any study like this, except for possibly the godhelmet, but that's another discussion.

On the other hand, I have some knowledge of empirical evidence that points to the reality and immanence of spiritual phenomena. For example, small placebo-controlled studies demonstrate the effectiveness of reiki as an alternative (and possibly a better treatment than) physical therapy.

Not proof of God, but damn close if you ask me.

 

[Thief]

and if you want unique spirit from each occasion of a human....

you let them go and find their way

as little interference as possible

 

[Valjean]

Gives people an excuse to attack their neighbors and steal their stuff -- and still feel good about it.

 

[George-ananda]

so...once you are dead.....
the person I am posting to is no longer part of the creation?

No, I would be on the astral/heaven plane eagerly learning from every post of Thief.