If Jesus is God why doesn't the Bible say so?

[MJFlores]

The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

Hello David!

Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?"

My Answer: Jesus never claimed to be God but Jesus pointed out who is God.

However before we begin the study on this, does everyone here know that if we have a false belief about God, this will lead us to eternal punishment, the second death?

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” (NIV)

in the Amplified Bible Rev 21:8 this is recorded:
But as for the cowards and unbelieving and abominable [who are devoid of character and personal integrity and practice or tolerate immorality], and murderers, and sorcerers [with intoxicating drugs], and idolaters and occultists [who practice and teach false religions], and all the liars [who knowingly deceive and twist truth], their part will be in the lake that blazes with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

It would be constructive if I face one verse at a time, instead of throwing them indiscriminately without hitting the bulls eye.

“One” in Taking Care of Christ’s sheep

If we are going to examine the context of John 10:27-30, it is clear here why the Lord Jesus said “I and My Father are one”:

John 10:27-30 NKJV
“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one."

Christ’s said, “neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.” He also said, “My father, who has given them to Me, is greater tha all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.” Thus, His conclusion, “I and My Father are one.”

Take note that when the Lord Jesus said “I and My father are one,” He is not taking about His state of being or his true nature. He is talking about how He and the Father will take care of His sheep that if they will hear His voice and follow Him no one shall snatch them out of His and His father’s hand.


Other Translations of John 10:30

Based on the context of the John 10:27-30, it is clear that the Lord Jesus is talking about how He and His Father are one in taking care of His sheep. Further strengthening this position, many versions of the Bible support our position that when Jesus said in John 10:30, “I and My Father are one,” He is not referring to His divinity, but rather on how He and his Father are one in taking care of His sheep.

The Message – “I and the Father are one heart and mind”:

John 10:27-30 The Message
“My sheep recognize my voice. I know them, and they follow me. I give them real and eternal life. They are protected from the Destroyer for good. No one can steal them from out of my hand. The Father who put them under my care is so much greater than the Destroyer and Thief. No one could ever get them away from him. I and the Father are one heart and mind.” (Emphasis Mine)

Contemporary English Version – “I am one with the Father”:

John 10:27-30 CEV
“My sheep know my voice, and I know them. They follow me, and I give them eternal life, so that they will never be lost. No one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father gave them to me, and he is greater than all others. No one can snatch them from his hands, and I am one with the Father.” (Emphasis Mine)

New Testament: An Expanded Translation – “I and the Father are one in essence”:

John 10:27-30 Wuest
“The sheep which are mine are in the habit of listening to my voice, and I know them by experience, and they take the same road that I take with me, and I give to them life eternal. And they shall positively not perish, never. And no one will snatch them by force out of my hand. My Father who gave them to me as a permanent gift is greater than all. And no one is able to be snatching them by force out of the hand of my Father. I and the Father are one in essence.” (Emphasis Mine)

 

[Muffled]

That is because you believe in a false doctrine like the trinity. That is why you cant see it, even when it is in scripture.

I believe, I believe what God says and you believe what you conjure up in your own mind.

 

[Muffled]

MJFlores said "However before we begin the study on this, does everyone here know that if we have a false belief about God, this will lead us to eternal punishment, the second death?"

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

I don't believe that has any basis in truth fortunately for you since I believe you qualify.

I believe from what Jesus told me He views a person not believing in the Trinity as a quasi idolater. It displeases Him. That isn't the same thing as qualifying a person for the lake of fire.

I believe holding a different view is not the same thing as bearing false witness. A person isn't really a witness at all if he can't see straight.

 

[MJFlores]

MJFlores said "However before we begin the study on this, does everyone here know that if we have a false belief about God, this will lead us to eternal punishment, the second death?"

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

I don't believe that has any basis in truth fortunately for you since I believe you qualify.

I believe from what Jesus told me He views a person not believing in the Trinity as a quasi idolater. It displeases Him. That isn't the same thing as qualifying a person for the lake of fire.

I believe holding a different view is not the same thing as bearing false witness. A person isn't really a witness at all if he can't see straight.

A PREACHER IS supposed to know and teach the truth, otherwise he could not expect anyone to understand and believe what he preaches. False preachers do not understand what they preach. Concerning them, the Apostle Paul said:

“They want to be teachers of God's law, but they do not understand their own words or the matters about which they speak with so much confidence.” (I Timothy 1:7 TEV)

False teachers “do not understand their own words or the matters about which they speak.” Regarding the Trinity doctrine this is what Catholic priests admitted about it:

“The Trinity is a wonderful mystery. No one understands it. The most learned theologian, the holiest Pope, the greatest saint, all are mystified by it as the child of seven.” (Martin J. Scott, S.J., God and Myself, p. 118)

As Catholic priests themselves admitted, the “Trinity” (which Catholic theologians, popes, bishops, and priests boldly preach) is a “mystery” that “No one understand it” even the most learned theologians, the “holiest Pope” and the “greatest saint.” They further admitted that “all are mystified by it as a child of seven.” Catholic theologians, popes and saints preaching the “Trinity” without understanding it? This is what the Bible says about them, quoting again I Timothy 1:7, this time from Revised Standard Version:

“Desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make assertions.” (I Timothy 1:7, RSV)

Thus, those who preach the Trinity doctrine are the false preachers, not only that they don’t understand their Trinity doctrine, but that this doctrine they uphold contradicts the teachings of the true preachers like the Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles.

Regarding the true belief about God, the doctrine that the Father alone is the True God, is affirmed and confirmed by the Holy Scriptures. This is what the Lord Jesus Christ teaches:

“Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father…And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:1,3 NKJV)

Apostle Paul also teaches the following:

“Yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.” (I Corinthians 8:6 NKJV)

Thus, the doctrine that the Father is the One True God that uphold by the true Christians is also the doctrine that was taught by the Lord Jesus Christ and the Apostles. Those who teach that the Father is the One True God that created us are true messengers of God:

“Don't we all have the same father? Didn't the same God create us all?…
“It is the duty of priests to teach the true knowledge of God. People should go to them to learn my will, because they are the messengers of the LORD Almighty.” (Malachi 2:10, 7, TEV)

The belief that the Father alone is the one true God is the true knowledge about God that is taught by true messengers of God. Thus, true preachers like the Lord Jesus Christ, the apostles and the prophets explicitly preached that the Father alone is the true God.

 

[DavidFirth]

Hello David!

Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?"

My Answer: Jesus never claimed to be God but Jesus pointed out who is God.

However before we begin the study on this, does everyone here know that if we have a false belief about God, this will lead us to eternal punishment, the second death?

John 3 covers this very well. It is simpler and easier to understand and should be used with children.

 

[moorea944]

So you accept the Gospel according to the NT?

I accept the Gospel of the bible.

Question....... What is the Gospel in your eyes.

 

[moorea944]

I believe, I believe what God says and you believe what you conjure up in your own mind.

lol And what does God say to you. That His son is God? Sorry my friend, but that is what you conjure up in your own mind.

I believe in what I read in the bible. Jesus is the son of God. You believe that he is "God the son". See the difference? Mine is in scripture and is what is taught. Yours is not in scripture and is nowhere taught in the bible.

 

[DavidFirth]

I accept the Gospel of the bible.

Question....... What is the Gospel in your eyes.

Why can't you just answer a simple question?

Do you or do you not believe every word of John 3? That's a yes or no question, by the way.

 

[moorea944]

Why can't you just answer a simple question?

Do you or do you not believe every word of John 3? That's a yes or no question, by the way.

Why can't you just answer a simple question?

I thought I did... Is there another question? I thought you weren't answering mine......

Do you or do you not believe every word of John 3? That's a yes or no question, by the way.

Of course I believe in "every word" of John 3. But we also have to understand the language of the chapter of verse. Is it literal, figurative, etc......
What verse are you talking about? Is there a certain one?

 

[DavidFirth]

I thought I did... Is there another question? I thought you weren't answering mine......


Of course I believe in "every word" of John 3. But we also have to understand the language of the chapter of verse. Is it literal, figurative, etc......
What verse are you talking about? Is there a certain one?

I'm talking about every word. Like I asked.

 

[moorea944]

I'm talking about every word. Like I asked.

Every word as in literal? Is there a certain verse that your thinking of?

 

[DavidFirth]

Every word as in literal? Is there a certain verse that your thinking of?

Just forget it.

 

[whirlingmerc]

In Isaiah Jesus is Ha Gibor the mighty man in Isaiah 9
In Isaiah the God of Jacob is Ha Gibor in Isaiah 11 couple pages later

Best resolved as esus is fully God and fully man

 

[Muffled]

lol And what does God say to you. That His son is God? Sorry my friend, but that is what you conjure up in your own mind.

I believe in what I read in the bible. Jesus is the son of God. You believe that he is "God the son". See the difference? Mine is in scripture and is what is taught. Yours is not in scripture and is nowhere taught in the bible.

I believe that is what God says to me and what He has revealed to me through the scriptures. I do not speak of things conjured in my own mind.

I believe the Bible says: and he fell headlong and burst asunder and his bowels fell out .... go and do likewise. I believe it makes a great deal of difference how one reads the Bible and how one understand what it says.

I believe there is absolutely no difference but you can elucidate if you are capable.

I believe you must not know your Bible then because it is taught.

 

[Muffled]

In Isaiah Jesus is Ha Gibor the mighty man in Isaiah 9
In Isaiah the God of Jacob is Ha Gibor in Isaiah 11 couple pages later

Best resolved as esus is fully God and fully man

Is it the same in 13 as well?

 

[moorea944]

In Isaiah Jesus is Ha Gibor the mighty man in Isaiah 9
In Isaiah the God of Jacob is Ha Gibor in Isaiah 11 couple pages later

Best resolved as esus is fully God and fully man

How can one be fully God and fully man? Mortal and immortal at the same time? Is this something you really want to believe in? Doesn't make sense, does it....

Doesn't scripture tell us that Jesus was like us? Same nature, everything? Look at what Moses was told in Deut 18v18+. There have been so many opportunities for God or an angel to explain to someone about the trinity and it was never said. Look at Gabriel in Luke, or Moses or Abraham. Do you think that they believed in a Trinitarian God? Of course not. So why now. Because it was added into Christianity.

 

[whirlingmerc]

How can one be fully God and fully man? Mortal and immortal at the same time? Is this something you really want to believe in? Doesn't make sense, does it....

Doesn't scripture tell us that Jesus was like us? Same nature, everything? Look at what Moses was told in Deut 18v18+. There have been so many opportunities for God or an angel to explain to someone about the trinity and it was never said. Look at Gabriel in Luke, or Moses or Abraham. Do you think that they believed in a Trinitarian God? Of course not. So why now. Because it was added into Christianity.

I think of it as one person who was divine and took on a additional human nature
The side by side acrostic poems I think would support that
you have the blessed God in Psalm 111 and the Blessed man in Psalm 112
see: The Acrostic Psalms which have basic lessons and themes common to the Psalms

 

[moorea944]

I think of it as one person who was divine and took on a additional human nature
The side by side acrostic poems I think would support that
you have the blessed God in Psalm 111 and the Blessed man in Psalm 112
see: The Acrostic Psalms which have basic lessons and themes common to the Psalms

Psalms 111 & 112 is about God, not Jesus. I don't know how you get that. Plus, you cant be a God and have a human nature. Your either a God or a man. Jesus was a man. Scripture tells us that too.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Jesus said tear down this temple and in three days I will raise it, speaking of his body.... human enough to die and divine enough to raise himself.

Seems he did claim so

Not to mention the numbers I AM statements in John such as before Abraham was I AM
or the beginning and ending ideas emphasizing Jesus being both. 'the world being made by the word and yet the word became flesh at the start and 'my Lord and my God' at the end

 

[Muffled]

How can one be fully God and fully man? Mortal and immortal at the same time? Is this something you really want to believe in? Doesn't make sense, does it....

Doesn't scripture tell us that Jesus was like us? Same nature, everything? Look at what Moses was told in Deut 18v18+. There have been so many opportunities for God or an angel to explain to someone about the trinity and it was never said. Look at Gabriel in Luke, or Moses or Abraham. Do you think that they believed in a Trinitarian God? Of course not. So why now. Because it was added into Christianity.

I believe one may ask how bronze can be copper and tin at the same time. After all copper tends to turn green and tin does not.

I believe I should and do since it makes sense.

I believe in the Trinity not a trinitarian god.

I believe the scripture supports the concept of the Trinity.

I believe this comes out of your own fantasies.