If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

[Domenic]

"The Father is greater than I." is God in the second person. Why? Jesus is God in the flesh, 1st. as a perfect sacrificial lamb and 2nd. as God redeeming His own creation and 3rd. honoring Himself as subject, servant and faithful to Himself to comply and complete the redemption of all mankind.
So, in the God head, if we can understand insight given to us by His Holy Spirit, we can see and deduce that there are three distinct personages.
1. God the Creator, 2. God the Son and 3. God the Holy Spirit.
Not spelled out as such in one complete sentence but revealed by the third person spiritually.

"The father will not hear your prayer unless you ask it in my name.
One must understand the purpose and intent of those words plus these words as well, Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me, were meant to offend.
By offending the righteous Jewish nation who where, by Moses instructions to only honor Gods laws and words, could not possibly honor anyone else's claim to the contrary. Thus, the religious righteous Jewish leaders claim of Blasphemy of Jesus and worthy of death.
Hence, the stage set for the sacrificial offering of God's Son on the cross for the the completion of God's redemptive plan.

"Father, why have you forsaken me?"
Following these words, Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles, gives us a clue of understanding why
God, the Father, would seem to forsake Jesus on the cross and here is the reason why. Jesus, as a man in the flesh, and as God, had to overcome all points of fleshly being by denying self of being rescued from the pain and sufferings of the cross and the agony of His death.
An imperfect, blemished sacrifice could not be offered for the flesh is in an imperfect state......unless, God Himself is in it.

There are many more...who was he talking to, himself?
For our understanding, as simple human beings, we figure wrong the use of those misunderstanding. The reason why is because we need the third person , the Holy Spirit , to enlighten us in knowledge, understanding and wisdom.
For reasons I am explaining all of the above is because in such a manner is because of my enlightened understanding.

"Father, let these (3,000 people)) be one with me, as I am one with you"
One in Spirit for there is no other explanation.
If we are one in spirit with Him, we are one in spirit with the Father as well.
What that comes down to is having our own dead spirits renewed to life everlasting via God's redemptive plan via His Son.

Blessings, AJ

You sound like a Ccatholic Prist.
Domenic

 

[Domenic]

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

If Jesus was God, why was he tempted by the Devil? Can God be tempted by the Devil, his own creation?

Granted, he passed the test. But if he was God... Why was there a test in the first place? Does God need to test himself?

Are God and Jesus really one in the same? Please answer logically how this is possible given the verse above.

It seems the religious leaders of some of the many Christian religions are following what their leaders are saying...not what the written word of God is.

 

[look3467]

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

If Jesus was God, why was he tempted by the Devil? Can God be tempted by the Devil, his own creation?

Granted, he passed the test. But if he was God... Why was there a test in the first place? Does God need to test himself?

Are God and Jesus really one in the same? Please answer logically how this is possible given the verse above.

Aamer, Remember that Jesus was in the flesh. Mankind was lost because of the flesh so technically, it was an impossibility for mankind without God to meet the requirements God Himself set down via Moses.

God, as man in the flesh, must be tested above and beyond human testing and in order to become victorious over it and liberate all humanity from being held captive by the sentence of eternal death.

God the Father places Jesus under test as Jesus is lead by the Holy Spirit to victory.

It was the intent of God the Father to accomplish a work in Jesus for the benefit of all humanity.

Only, as God, as a man could this impossible task be accomplished.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

It seems the religious leaders of some of the many Christian religions are following what their leaders are saying...not what the written word of God is.

"It seems"? Sounds like your not sure of your own beliefs.
..."not what the written word of God is"... The written word of God can only be deciphered with the help of the Holy Spirit who will give us understanding into Gods message to us.
Many claims are made about beliefs in God, but only those who have assurances in their heart, via peace of mind and love for thy brother or sister.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Muffled]

It is good to read a question from a person who does not know, but is seeking the truth. My reply will not prove the truth to you, but I hope it will answer your question, "Is Jesus God?"

Here are a few things Jesus said, "The Father is greater than I." "The father will not hear your prayer unless you ask it in my name." Even at his death, Jesus said, "Father, why have you forsaken me?" There are many more...who was he talking to, himself? Oh, here is a little one I like, "Father, let these (3,000 people)) be one with me, as I am one with you." I like that one...it 's not making fun of those who try to prove Jesus and his father are one...it just shows they are not thinking straight.

I believe I am thinking straight and I find your references a lot less than convincing. I don't know what makes you think they are.

 

[look3467]

One must understand the position Jesus had to take "as a son of man" and as "a Son of God" to be able to interpret Jesus referencing the Father....... as like speaking to Himself.
Heb_2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

My earthly dad, once gave me and example of how God communicated with mankind but referencing a colony of ants.
He said in order to communicate with the ants, as a human one would... if one had the power to be transformed into and ant, become and ant to then communicate with them.
God is Omnipotent and can be at all places at the same time. Present in Spirit.
Because Jesus was made of the same lump of clay as Adam was considered a son of man. But because He was not made of the same spirit of Adam, but of God, He was also the Son of God.
Being in total subjection to God the Father as a son of man and having the fullness of the Godhead present in body form, He was able to overcome all mankind's temptations and nail them to the cross.
Therefore, speaking to the Father in human understanding, it would make like, seem like, "how could He be speaking to Himself" if He was God?

God did the work.....period. Mankind can not make any claims regardless of how mankind wants to interpret it.
The above quoted verse is God giving glory to only one individual above all individuals who, as Himself only could, taste death for, not some, not many, but for "every man".

If, you look at that, the way presented, as Gods doings, then your understandings will have been enlightened and wisdom dictate satisfaction. (Justified, saved and the start of eternal life, even as you now live in the flesh.

Blessings, AJ

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

If Jesus was God, why was he tempted by the Devil? Can God be tempted by the Devil, his own creation?

Granted, he passed the test. But if he was God... Why was there a test in the first place? Does God need to test himself?

Are God and Jesus really one in the same? Please answer logically how this is possible given the verse above.

I haven't taken the time to read the 100's of posts on this thread, just the first few pages, so if this has already been said, my bad!

In the Psalms, the writer said,

Psalms 102:25-27 (ESV Strong's) 25 Of old you laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. 26 They will perish, but you will remain; they will all wear out like a garment.
You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away, 27 but you are the same, and your years have no end.

And in Hebrews, God says of Jesus,

Hebrews 1:8-12 (ESV Strong's) 8 But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

10 And,

“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
11 they will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment,
12 like a robe you will roll them up,
like a garment they will be changed.
But you are the same,
and your years will have no end.”

Since the writer of Hebrews was quoting Psalm 102:25-27 and said God was referring to the Son, and when David said it, he was speaking to God, it shows that Jesus is and was God

 

[djhwoodwerks]

So God appoints and anoints a man to forgive...Jesus said the DISCIPLES had this power in Jn 20, which you as a pentecostal have no excuse not to know:

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

...so then this trinproof doesn't really hold up very well now does it? You aren't a TRIN, so then why use their goofy proofs?

You believe that Jesus gave the Apostles the authority to forgive the sins of the world, just as He and God can do? We sin against God, but a mere human can forgive that sin and God will accept it?

So they could have said, 'let's just forgive everyone so we all can go to heaven', or, 'let's not forgive anyone so we will be the only ones in heaven'?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Jesus destroyed the devil through his death. What is the death that they are talkinga about? Who has the power of death? It is sin. If you sin you die. Sin is personified and called a devil. Devil in Greek is a false accuser, slanderer. Has nothing to do with a fallen angel. Angels do not sin. Satan is an untranslated word meaning a adversary. Satan is an untranslated word, it shouldnt even be in our bibles as "satan". New bibles now dont even have satan in it. They have the correct meaning, adversary.

By this reasoning, Jesus destroyed sin, therefore sin no longer remains, correct? If sin is personified and called the devil, and angels cannot sin, then sin and 1/3 of what was cast out of heaven?

Revelation 12:9 (ESV Strong's) 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

If God and the angels were the only ones in heaven, and angels can't sin, but the devil is sin personified, then...?

 

[moorea944]

By this reasoning, Jesus destroyed sin, therefore sin no longer remains, correct? If sin is personified and called the devil, and angels cannot sin, then sin and 1/3 of what was cast out of heaven?

Revelation 12:9 (ESV Strong's) 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

If God and the angels were the only ones in heaven, and angels can't sin, but the devil is sin personified, then...?

By this reasoning, Jesus destroyed sin, therefore sin no longer remains, correct?

What is the chapter saying... It's talking about sin nature. He didnt kill sin in general or all of sin for everyone. Through his death he destroyed his flesh nature or sin nature. Hebrews also tells us that Jesus was just like us. And we should follow him in his death and we do that symbollically in baptism.

If sin is personified and called the devil, and angels cannot sin, then sin and 1/3 of what was cast out of heaven?

Sin can be peronfied in different ways. In one way, it IS called the devil. And the devil is a Greek word meaning, a false accuser, lier, etc, etc. Paul also tells us that women should not be devils too.
Revelation is symbollic. Angels dont sin and there was never a war in Heaven where God dwells. IT's talking about something else.

Revelation 12:9 (ESV Strong's) 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Again this is symbollic.

If God and the angels were the only ones in heaven, and angels can't sin, but the devil is sin personified, then...?

Again, "devil" is written in different ways. It is not a "fallen angel". Angel's do not sin, they are immortal.

 

[Ingledsva]

I haven't taken the time to read the 100's of posts on this thread, just the first few pages, so if this has already been said, my bad!

In the Psalms, the writer said,

Psalms 102:25-27 (ESV Strong's) 25 Of old you laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. 26 They will perish, but you will remain; they will all wear out like a garment.
You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away, 27 but you are the same, and your years have no end.

And in Hebrews, God says of Jesus,

Hebrews 1:8-12 (ESV Strong's) 8 But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

10 And,

“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
11 they will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment,
12 like a robe you will roll them up,
like a garment they will be changed.
But you are the same,
and your years will have no end.”

Since the writer of Hebrews was quoting Psalm 102:25-27 and said God was referring to the Son, and when David said it, he was speaking to God, it shows that Jesus is and was God

No it doesn't show Jesus is or was God.

It - AS USUAL, - shows much-much-MUCH later people did not understand the Tanakh verses, - and thus took them out of context, and meaning, and tried to say they were about Jesus.!!!!!

The one whom - laid the foundations - is YHVH.

Psa 102:1 A Prayer of the afflicted, when he is overwhelmed, and poureth out his complaint before YHVH. Hear my prayer, O YHVH, and let my cry come unto thee.

Psa 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise Yahh.

Psa 102:19 For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did YHVH behold the earth;

Psa 102:20 To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death;

Psa 102:21 To declare the name of YHVH in Zion, and his praise in Jerusalem;

Psa 102:22 When the people are gathered together, and the kingdoms, to serve YHVH.

Psa 102:23 He (YHVH) weakened my strength in the way; he shortened my days.

Psa 102:24 I said, O my El, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations.

Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Psa 102:26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

Psa 102:27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

Psa 102:28 The children of thy servants shall continue, and their seed shall be established before thee.

*

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Again, "devil" is written in different ways. It is not a "fallen angel". Angel's do not sin, they are immortal.

Where do you get that angels don't sin?

Lucifer was an "angel" that wanted Gods throne. Lucifer became, the devil/accuser, satan/opposer.

Isaiah 42:12-15

 

[djhwoodwerks]

No it doesn't show Jesus is or was God.

It - AS USUAL, - shows much-much-MUCH later people did not understand the Tanakh verses, - and thus took them out of context, and meaning, and tried to say they were about Jesus.!!!!!

The one whom - laid the foundations - is YHVH.

Psa 102:1 A Prayer of the afflicted, when he is overwhelmed, and poureth out his complaint before YHVH. Hear my prayer, O YHVH, and let my cry come unto thee.

Psa 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise Yahh.

Psa 102:19 For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did YHVH behold the earth;

Psa 102:20 To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death;

Psa 102:21 To declare the name of YHVH in Zion, and his praise in Jerusalem;

Psa 102:22 When the people are gathered together, and the kingdoms, to serve YHVH.

Psa 102:23 He (YHVH) weakened my strength in the way; he shortened my days.

Psa 102:24 I said, O my El, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations.

Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Psa 102:26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

Psa 102:27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

Psa 102:28 The children of thy servants shall continue, and their seed shall be established before thee.*

I never said that the Tanakh was talking about Jesus, I said it was talking about YHVH. The writer of Hebrews says they were written about Jesus!

Hebrews 1:8-12 (ESV Strong's) 8 But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
10 And,
“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
11 they will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment,
12 like a robe you will roll them up,
like a garment they will be changed.
But you are the same,
and your years will have no end.”

 

[moorea944]

Where do you get that angels don't sin?

Lucifer was an "angel" that wanted Gods throne. Lucifer became, the devil/accuser, satan/opposer.

Isaiah 42:12-15

Lucifer was an "angel" that wanted Gods throne. Lucifer became, the devil/accuser, satan/opposer.

Are you serious? I figured everyone by now would know that Lucifer was a translation error. Read the whole chapter. Lucifer is only in the KJV. Lucifer is a latin word in a Hebrew bible before there were latin words?....... That doesnt raise red flags with you?...

The whole chapter is about the king of Babylon.

Lucifer is a latin word for the planet Venus. IT also means, bright light, morning star, etc....

 

[Oeste]

What is the chapter saying... It's talking about sin nature. He didnt kill sin in general or all of sin for everyone. Through his death he destroyed his flesh nature or sin nature.

Jesus did not have a "sin nature". If he did, there is no atonement for our own sin, and thus no need for him to come.

Sin can be peronfied in different ways. In one way, it IS called the devil. And the devil is a Greek word meaning, a false accuser, lier, etc, etc. Paul also tells us that women should not be devils too.
Revelation is symbollic. Angels dont sin and there was never a war in Heaven where God dwells. IT's talking about something else.

Why stop there? If Jesus is having a conversation with a "personification" why not convert his conversations with the Father, the apostles, the Pharisees, and Sadducee's into literary devices also?

The verses make sense as they are...I see no need to change them into symbolisms or metaphors.

 

[moorea944]

Jesus did not have a "sin nature". If he did, there is no atonement for our own sin, and thus no need for him to come.



Why stop there? If Jesus is having a conversation with a "personification" why not convert his conversations with the Father, the apostles, the Pharisees, and Sadducee's into literary devices also?

The verses make sense as they are...I see no need to change them into symbolisms or metaphors.

Jesus did not have a "sin nature". If he did, there is no atonement for our own sin, and thus no need for him to come.

Actually he did. Scripture tells us that he was like us in every way. He was from the seed of Abraham and David and NOT spiritual like the angels. He had to be like us to be the Messiah. Even Moses was told that. If he wasnt like us, there would be no atonement for our own sins. If he was God (which is false doctrine) the atonement goes right out the window.

Jesus had to conquer sin or sin in the flesh. And he did with the help with his father. His father was working through his son every step of the way. Jesus is the perfect manifestation of his father. God was working through his son to reconcile the world back to him. (2 Cor 5) If Jesus was God that would make no sense at all. How can a God be tempted or try to conquer something... think about it......

But.... since he was like us, with the same nature, there was a need for him to come. He needed salvation too from his Father. He benefited from his own baptism and death.

IF Jesus is God (which totally degrades our Creator), he would be immortal like his father and couldnt die. Would need to and there would be no need for temptations.

Why stop there? If Jesus is having a conversation with a "personification" why not convert his conversations with the Father, the apostles, the Pharisees, and Sadducee's into literary devices also?

Your not understanding what i'm saying. "Sometimes" it is personified. Sometimes it can be a real person, like a women or a man being called a devil for some bad reason or another. "Sometimes" it is personified, like with Paul calling sin the devil.

Look at the word "wisdom". It is personified as a woman in Proverbs

Look at the book of Daniel and Revelations. They use animals as the nations. Babylon, Greek and Rome. So simple......

The verses make sense as they are...I see no need to change them into symbolisms or metaphors.

Actually they dont. So you believe in dragons with ten heads and ten eyes? Wow, good boy......

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Actually he did. Scripture tells us that he was like us in every way. He was from the seed of Abraham and David and NOT spiritual like the angels. He had to be like us to be the Messiah. Even Moses was told that. If he wasnt like us, there would be no atonement for our own sins. If he was God (which is false doctrine) the atonement goes right out the window.

But.... since he was like us, with the same nature, there was a need for him to come. He needed salvation too from his Father. He benefited from his own baptism and death.

IF Jesus is God (which totally degrades our Creator), he would be immortal like his father and couldnt die. Would need to and there would be no need for temptations.

He was flesh and bone, just like us, He didn't have our sin nature. If He had the sin nature, His nature would have been to sin, just like us! Why did Jesus have to be born of a virgin, with no human father, if He was, "like us in every way" anyway? Why didn't God just let Joseph and Mary have a son and use him?

Yes, He was from the seed of David, but it was Mary, not Joseph, Joseph was not Jesus' father. Can God bare a sinner?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The verses make sense as they are...I see no need to change them into symbolisms or metaphors.

Actually they dont. So you believe in dragons with ten heads and ten eyes? Wow, good boy......

They don't make sense to you, so you explain them off as metaphors? Wow, good boy.....

 

[moorea944]

He was flesh and bone, just like us, He didn't have our sin nature. If He had the sin nature, His nature would have been to sin, just like us! Why did Jesus have to be born of a virgin, with no human father, if He was, "like us in every way" anyway? Why didn't God just let Joseph and Mary have a son and use him?

Yes, He was from the seed of David, but it was Mary, not Joseph, Joseph was not Jesus' father. Can God bare a sinner?

He was flesh and bone, just like us, He didn't have our sin nature. If He had the sin nature, His nature would have been to sin, just like us!

He was flesh and blood like us too. And he did have our sin nature, which had to be put to death, which he did on the cross. Jesus could have sinned if he wanted to, but he chose not to and to do the will of his Father. But he was just like us. Yes, God was his father, but also David and Abraham. He had to be the son of God and the son of man. God was working "through" his son. Helping him. And the angels too. Why? Why would he need help if he didnt have our nature, prone to sin.

 

[moorea944]

They don't make sense to you, so you explain them off as metaphors? Wow, good boy.....

OH, your very welcome. And it's not just metaphors...... So are you saying that in Rev when it talks about dragons and the beasts, it's real?