If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

[nothead]

"Brandon Brossett, post: 4142496, member: 56317"You sound like the Pharisees who had problem with Him forgiving sins when they said who can forgive sins but God

So God appoints and anoints a man to forgive...Jesus said the DISCIPLES had this power in Jn 20, which you as a pentecostal have no excuse not to know:

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

...so then this trinproof doesn't really hold up very well now does it? You aren't a TRIN, so then why use their goofy proofs?

Exactly, Even though no one called him directly, Isaiah said his name will be everlasting Father,

What would this mean since it is not literal, and Jesus was not known by that name? See, either you or me could be right, but in any case the meaning IS not literal.

John 14 Phillip said show us the Father He says if you seen me you seen the Father.

God IS NOT seeable while on earth, normally speaking. John SAID it four times. So then this meaning too is NOT literal, and yes it is a spiritual "seeing." I propose the SEEING is of the manifest Spirit indwelling the Christ, the ANOINTED one.

The bible says no man hath seen God because God is Spirit and that same Spirit robe himself in flesh and was born of a virgin. 1 Tim 3:16

1) Your blue words are never said, as you mean it...God robes himself in flesh as Jesus. This implies the FLESH of Jesus was a robe itself, gnosticism. Coming IN THE FLESH for John was so important he said in 1 John the denial thereof is the Anti-Christ spirit. This is because it WAS NOT a robe, or vesture or fake image or costume. As the pre-gnostics said. God cannot BE flesh unless it IS a veil of secrecy, or that which hinders true sight. Because God is not a man that He should lie, or the SON of man that He should repent.

Num 23

19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

...now oh OnePent, ye know the true story, despite what you were taught.

2) God would have Himself BORN of a woman? How was it THIS woman did not know he was God? She rebukes her son for not being with the caravan going home from Jerusalem. Does any man or woman rebuke God?

Your God seems to be deceiving you most of the time, and not only you but the very WOMAN He was born through. How is it YOU know more than the woman who bore him? If YOU bore God, would you not know somehow, someway HE IS GOD?

God was matifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles( the father was not preached unto the Gentiles but Jesus was), received up to glory(God was received up to glory)

Do you not know this verse is contested by alt-terps?

The main reasoning behind these alternate translations...no manuscript before Nicea HAD YOUR VERSE, SIR. And during the Arian/Athanasian controversy THIS VERSE NEVER COMES UP.

"He appeared in a body" (NIV)

"He who was manifested in the flesh" (ASV)

"He who was revealed in the flesh" (NASB)

"He was manifested in the flesh" (RSV)

"Which was manifested in the flesh" (Douey-Rheims)

"Who was manifested in the flesh" (NAB)"

The Trinity Delusion: 1 Timothy 3:16

Also plain text never says exactly a lot if things that are right. Jehovah said I am alpha and omega in OT Jesus said same thing in revelations, I am First and the Last, in the beginning was word the was God and Word became flesh. So God is not three "persons" but He is one which matifested himself.

Possibly the BEST rationale for Jesus being God, if taken by itself. The problem you and your buds face is the opposing Jewish Default...the Shema says ONLY ONE is God, and that one is YHWH, not the other one who is Jesus. The First Command of the Ten says to have NO OTHER ONE (elohim) to God's face (as equal). Jesus himself said he is a witness APART from his God, who is the true Witness. 2x in John, your fav gospel. And NO synoptic even mentions the Thomas event, or the HEN of Jesus to the Father or the Prologue which are the continual Deity proofs of JisG. Each gospel pristine and autonomous in it's own right, originally. What, you think they figured the truth of Jesus' deity AFTER 50 or so years passed? Even after the UPPER ROOM they did not know it, for each gospel was written AFTER the upper room. And Peter who stood up and spoke about the event, having been BLASTED with the flames alighting, DID NOT SAY Jesus was God.

 

[Nada]

Jesus said go ye into all the world baptizing in the Name of the father, Son, and Holy Ghost and all of his apostles which heard him that day baptized in the Name of Jesus so either they rebeled Jesus or they understood the what The Name of father, son, and Holy Ghost was

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

They did this because no one can come to God the Almighty unless they go through Jesus first.when Jesus gave his life for all of mankind, as a ransom sacrifice,he became the high priest and mediator between God and man.That is why when we pray we do so in the name of Jesus Christ.He is the new King and is ready to fulfill the word of God and destroy the wicked in the near future.
When one becomes baptized and they say in the name of the father,son and holy spirit,they are acknowledging that all power comes from God and He is the Almighty.That Jesus is His Son and first creation who died for us as a ransom sacrifice.That all of this is by way of God's holy spirit which is His active force.Once one has come to know this as truth then one can willfully dedicate themselves to God.

 

[nothead]

Jesus said go ye into all the world baptizing in the Name of the father, Son, and Holy Ghost and all of his apostles which heard him that day baptized in the Name of Jesus so either they rebeled Jesus or they understood the what The Name of father, son, and Holy Ghost was

Key here: they were NOT being baptized into the name of God, nor did they COMPREHEND this.

Paul even says he was glad he baptized only a few since they MIGHT THINK they were baptized into his OWN name. Quite an odd circumstance, if they actually thought they were baptized into GOD'S name, whom Paul could not be. JESUS the name baptism, 4x in Acts. See I retained the ONE OnePent concept valid, that the baptism of Christians IS into the name of "Jesus." Since the plain text says it was done 4-5 times specifically into Jesus' name, and for them to be baptized into three names or entities makes Mt 28:19 itself probably an insert, the trin formulation clause.

Hint: Eusebius mentions eighteen times the Great Commission WITHOUT the trin formulation.

 

[Brandon Brossett]

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

They did this because no one can come to God the Almighty unless they go through Jesus first.when Jesus gave his life for all of mankind, as a ransom sacrifice,he became the high priest and mediator between God and man.That is why when we pray we do so in the name of Jesus Christ.He is the new King and is ready to fulfill the word of God and destroy the wicked in the near future.
When one becomes baptized and they say in the name of the father,son and holy spirit,they are acknowledging that all power comes from God and He is the Almighty.That Jesus is His Son and first creation who died for us as a ransom sacrifice.That all of this is by way of God's holy spirit which is His active force.Once one has come to know this as truth then one can willfully dedicate themselves to God.

No were in the bible is anyone ever baptized in father, son ,Holy Spirit

So I would like to lift up my voice with Paul
Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

[Nada]

No were in the bible is anyone ever baptized in father, son ,Holy Spirit

So I would like to lift up my voice with Paul
Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Matthew 28:18,19
…18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,



The word a·na′the·ma literally means that which is “laid up” and originally applied to votive offerings laid up or set apart as sacred in a temple. (See Lu 21:5, where a related word is used.) In the Greek Scriptures the Bible writers use a·na′the·ma to apply to that which is accursed or subject to becoming accursed and, therefore, set apart as evil or execrated. Thus Paul wrote to the Galatians (1:8) that they should consider as “accursed” anyone (even angels) who declared to them as good news something contrary to that which they had received.

Curse — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[nothead]

E

emanuel God with us

Yeah, literally or figuratively as the Shaliach or appointed REGENT of God? Jewish ideology has men ALWAYS as a "regent of God" and God WITH us is in fact as an appointed "son." Sons of the most high, Psalm 82, "ye are elohim." "I said you are "elohim" to Pharaoh," said to Moses, Ex 7. "Son of God" said by Luke for Adam.

OnePent theology seems to have affirmed the Nicean Council, when all reasoning behind this is vacant. All Creeds before Nicea had no such concept, that Jesus shares the same OUSIA with God. And you from your initial view of God as Spirit have vacillated from SPIRIT to ONTOLOGY also, when saying the "fullness of deity indwelt," is of ESSENCE not Spirit.

For in SPIRIT we are one with Jesus and the Father, as Jesus is IN SPIRIT one with his God Jn 10. Jn 17 IN HIM, as he is IN HIM and HIM in Jesus, and we too are IN JESUS and his Father who is God.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Hint: God is MORE THAN Spirit, but and yet it is THROUGH SPIRIT believers are HEN with both the Son...and God.

 

[Brandon Brossett]

Key here: they were NOT being baptized into the name of God, nor did they COMPREHEND this.

Paul even says he was glad he baptized only a few since they MIGHT THINK they were baptized into his OWN name. Quite an odd circumstance, if they actually thought they were baptized into GOD'S name, whom Paul could not be. JESUS the name baptism, 4x in Acts. See I retained the ONE OnePent concept valid, that the baptism of Christians IS into the name of "Jesus." Since the plain text says it was done 4-5 times specifically into Jesus' name, and for them to be baptized into three names or entities makes Mt 28:19 itself probably an insert, the trin formulation clause.

Hint: Eusebius mentions eighteen times the Great Commission WITHOUT the trin formulation.

1 Corinthians 1:12-15
Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

I might should use all the context of scripture they were prideful saying who baptized them, that is why Paul was glad he didn't baptize them "lest any should say that I baptized in my own name ". Not God's name as u stated
Also whatever the trin formulation if it is not from bible Paul said let it be accursed

 

[nothead]

So lets just tare scripture out of the bible ye know not who ye worship

Who you taring with, me or Bible Student?

 

[nothead]

1 Corinthians 1:12-15
Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

I might should use all the context of scripture they were prideful saying who baptized them, that is why Paul was glad he didn't baptize them "lest any should say that I baptized in my own name ". Not God's name as u stated
Also whatever the trin formulation if it is not from bible Paul said let it be accursed

I do in fact consider the verse primal, "no man comes unto the Father except by the Son." It is through the glorified MAN'S name everyone can come, and the baptism of both water and spirit holds true to this very theme, "no man comes unto GOD, but by the man, Christ."

 

[Brandon Brossett]

I am done cast my pearl, to people who base there belief in creeds and other other forms of doctrines of devil have good pray meeting when try to split it up to your persons make sure they get their equal time, b/c if they are co-equal then they need equal time, but wait if Jesus said all power is given unto me in Heaven and Earth either God lost his glory that he will not share or Jesus is God matifested in flesh or (robed in flesh as someone told me that word was in scripture)

 

[Brandon Brossett]

I do in fact consider the verse primal, "no man comes unto the Father except by the Son." It is through the glorified MAN'S name everyone can come, and the baptism of both water and spirit holds true to this very theme, "no man comes unto GOD, but by the man, Christ."

He didn't baptize them in the name of Paul if that is what you are saying it is sometime hard to understand y'all just like the trinity

 

[nothead]

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

They did this because no one can come to God the Almighty unless they go through Jesus first.when Jesus gave his life for all of mankind, as a ransom sacrifice,he became the high priest and mediator between God and man.That is why when we pray we do so in the name of Jesus Christ.He is the new King and is ready to fulfill the word of God and destroy the wicked in the near future.
When one becomes baptized and they say in the name of the father,son and holy spirit,they are acknowledging that all power comes from God and He is the Almighty.That Jesus is His Son and first creation who died for us as a ransom sacrifice.That all of this is by way of God's holy spirit which is His active force.Once one has come to know this as truth then one can willfully dedicate themselves to God.

Which HE is being spoken of, sir? HE the Holy Spirit, HE the Son, or HE the Father? Are you really a Bible Student, or one who rather glosses the plain text? With your own pronoun? Yeah HE is God Almighty. But three HE'S don't make a HE sir.

Three He's makes an US, a THEM a WE and a THEIR OWN.

 

[nothead]

I am done cast my pearl, to people who base there belief in creeds and other other forms of doctrines of devil have good pray meeting when try to split it up to your persons make sure they get their equal time, b/c if they are co-equal then they need equal time, but wait if Jesus said all power is given unto me in Heaven and Earth either God lost his glory that he will not share or Jesus is God matifested in flesh or (robed in flesh as someone told me that word was in scripture)

"I will not share my glory with another," in the ultimate sense, sir. The Father of Spirits sends something DERIVED to Son, or man, even more trickled down. And your pentecostal experience is of glory too, even more trickled down for the first ones were more willing to give up their very own lives, literally right away. He does share glory or we have no hope. But not ALL glory, even unto the Son who is the beloved Son of God.

 

[nothead]

He didn't baptize them in the name of Paul if that is what you are saying it is sometime hard to understand y'all just like the trinity

I am saying you weren't baptized into the NAME of God, which is "YHWH" sir.

 

[nothead]

Matthew 28:18,19
…18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,



The word a·na′the·ma literally means that which is “laid up” and originally applied to votive offerings laid up or set apart as sacred in a temple. (See Lu 21:5, where a related word is used.) In the Greek Scriptures the Bible writers use a·na′the·ma to apply to that which is accursed or subject to becoming accursed and, therefore, set apart as evil or execrated. Thus Paul wrote to the Galatians (1:8) that they should consider as “accursed” anyone (even angels) who declared to them as good news something contrary to that which they had received.

Curse — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

God does not have his authority GIVEN unto him. He HAS authority, and if Jesus were God he would say he TAKES BACK his original authority. To be GIVEN authority even in Heaven is to NOT be God the one who GAVE HIM authority.

And this authority is a temporal thing by itself, as all glory goes to the One True God, GIVEN BACK.

1 Cor 15

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

You as many trins and JisG will ignore this definitive passage. What, you think the three HE'S gives authority in turns?
SHARES authority as a sequential happenin'? You give to me, I give to you kinda deal?

 

[Muffled]

Did Yeshua say this?

He was not that explicit then but He is now.

 

[Muffled]

I would be happy to debate this with you one on one if you want.

I believe I had a thread that ran over 1000 pages but it seems to have lapsed into history. It was on Religious Debates. It would be a lot of reading and not all of it germain. (some people have trouble staying on topic) However I am willing to do it by message and rehash everything if you wish and you start the discussion.

 

[Muffled]

I think many in this forum do not understand what trinitarianism teaches: One God (in essence); three (distinct) persons.

I believe that is the Athanasian version of the Trinity sometimes called the Trinity Doctrine. The Nicene version does not have distinct persons.

 

[Domenic]

I agree. People read scriptures with one of two intentions.

1) To seek the truth.

2) To make the scripture fit whatever it is they have already decided they WANT to be the truth.

It is good to read a question from a person who does not know, but is seeking the truth. My reply will not prove the truth to you, but I hope it will answer your question, "Is Jesus God?"

Here are a few things Jesus said, "The Father is greater than I." "The father will not hear your prayer unless you ask it in my name." Even at his death, Jesus said, "Father, why have you forsaken me?" There are many more...who was he talking to, himself? Oh, here is a little one I like, "Father, let these (3,000 people)) be one with me, as I am one with you." I like that one...it 's not making fun of those who try to prove Jesus and his father are one...it just shows they are not thinking straight.

 

[look3467]

It is good to read a question from a person who does not know, but is seeking the truth. My reply will not prove the truth to you, but I hope it will answer your question, "Is Jesus God?"

Here are a few things Jesus said, "The Father is greater than I." "The father will not hear your prayer unless you ask it in my name." Even at his death, Jesus said, "Father, why have you forsaken me?" There are many more...who was he talking to, himself? Oh, here is a little one I like, "Father, let these (3,000 people)) be one with me, as I am one with you." I like that one...it 's not making fun of those who try to prove Jesus and his father are one...it just shows they are not thinking straight.

"The Father is greater than I." is God in the second person. Why? Jesus is God in the flesh, 1st. as a perfect sacrificial lamb and 2nd. as God redeeming His own creation and 3rd. honoring Himself as subject, servant and faithful to Himself to comply and complete the redemption of all mankind.
So, in the God head, if we can understand insight given to us by His Holy Spirit, we can see and deduce that there are three distinct personages.
1. God the Creator, 2. God the Son and 3. God the Holy Spirit.
Not spelled out as such in one complete sentence but revealed by the third person spiritually.

"The father will not hear your prayer unless you ask it in my name.
One must understand the purpose and intent of those words plus these words as well, Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me, were meant to offend.
By offending the righteous Jewish nation who where, by Moses instructions to only honor Gods laws and words, could not possibly honor anyone else's claim to the contrary. Thus, the religious righteous Jewish leaders claim of Blasphemy of Jesus and worthy of death.
Hence, the stage set for the sacrificial offering of God's Son on the cross for the the completion of God's redemptive plan.

"Father, why have you forsaken me?"
Following these words, Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles, gives us a clue of understanding why
God, the Father, would seem to forsake Jesus on the cross and here is the reason why. Jesus, as a man in the flesh, and as God, had to overcome all points of fleshly being by denying self of being rescued from the pain and sufferings of the cross and the agony of His death.
An imperfect, blemished sacrifice could not be offered for the flesh is in an imperfect state......unless, God Himself is in it.

There are many more...who was he talking to, himself?
For our understanding, as simple human beings, we figure wrong the use of those misunderstanding. The reason why is because we need the third person , the Holy Spirit , to enlighten us in knowledge, understanding and wisdom.
For reasons I am explaining all of the above is because in such a manner is because of my enlightened understanding.

"Father, let these (3,000 people)) be one with me, as I am one with you"
One in Spirit for there is no other explanation.
If we are one in spirit with Him, we are one in spirit with the Father as well.
What that comes down to is having our own dead spirits renewed to life everlasting via God's redemptive plan via His Son.

Blessings, AJ