According to the Bible: All prophets before Muhammad were Muslims !!

[The Tiger of Islam]

Assalamu Alaikum

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله

Lets read Genesis 17 From Targum: http://targum.info/pj/pjgen12-7.htm

XVII. And Abram was the son of ninety and nine years, and the Lord appeared to Abram, and said to him, I am El Shadai; serve before Me and be perfect (shelim) in thy flesh. And I will set My covenant between My Word and thee, and will multiply thee very greatly. And because Abram was not circumcised, he was not able to stand, but he bowed himself upon his face

The translators of the Bible twisted the meaning of the word "Shelim" according to their lust to avoid the hurting truth.

1. THE WORLD "SHELIM" MEANS SUBMIT TO GOD IN ISLAM.

Source: Hebrew and Chaldee lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures; translated, with additions, and corrections from the author's Thesaurus and other works ([1857]) ------ Page 830

Link to the book: https://archive.org/details/hebrewchaldeelex00geseuoft

2. According to Brown-Driver-Briggs dictionary of the Bible:

The word "Shelim" in Genesis means MUSLIM.

Source: http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7999.htm

http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7999.htm&h=YAQGSrYFg&s=1

3. According to Encyclopaedia Judaica, Volume 1 By Fred Skolnik and Michael Berenbaum:

Abraham was muslim !!!

"The very word Islam and the idea contained in it, namely that of complete dedication to God, is connected with the story of Abraham, e.g., Sura 2:125, "When God said to him [Abraham], ‘dedicate yourself to God in islam [aslim]‘, he said, ‘I dedicate myself to the Lord of the Worlds.’" Or (22:77): "This is the religion of your father Abraham. He called you muslimin (Muslims)," i.e., those who dedicate themselves to God.

This expression GOES BACK TO GENESIS 17:1 in the version of Targum *Onkelos, where Abraham is admonished by God to become shelim, and the subsequent definition of a proselyte as one who dedicates himself to his Creator."

Source: http://what-when-how.com/jews-and-judaism/abrabanel-judah-to-abraham-apocalypse-of-jews-and-judaism/


To be continued ..​

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

To be continued ..

Ugh. This is actually the part of the OP I liked least because it means there's going to be more outdated, debunked Muslim arguments trotted out after this one.

You don't understand Hebrew and you're arguing with practising Jews who learned their scriptures in Hebrew. Just give it up, dude; you're not going to win this.

 

[Tumah]

Assalamu Alaikum

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله

Lets read Genesis 17 From Targum: http://targum.info/pj/pjgen12-7.htm

XVII. And Abram was the son of ninety and nine years, and the Lord appeared to Abram, and said to him, I am El Shadai; serve before Me and be perfect (shelim) in thy flesh. And I will set My covenant between My Word and thee, and will multiply thee very greatly. And because Abram was not circumcised, he was not able to stand, but he bowed himself upon his face

The translators of the Bible twisted the meaning of the word "Shelim" according to their lust to avoid the hurting truth.

1. THE WORLD "SHELIM" MEANS SUBMIT TO GOD IN ISLAM.

Source: Hebrew and Chaldee lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures; translated, with additions, and corrections from the author's Thesaurus and other works ([1857]) ------ Page 830

Link to the book: https://archive.org/details/hebrewchaldeelex00geseuoft

2. According to Brown-Driver-Briggs dictionary of the Bible:

The word "Shelim" in Genesis means MUSLIM.

Source: http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7999.htm

3. According to Encyclopaedia Judaica, Volume 1 By Fred Skolnik and Michael Berenbaum:

Abraham was muslim !!!

"The very word Islam and the idea contained in it, namely that of complete dedication to God, is connected with the story of Abraham, e.g., Sura 2:125, "When God said to him [Abraham], ‘dedicate yourself to God in islam [aslim]‘, he said, ‘I dedicate myself to the Lord of the Worlds.’" Or (22:77): "This is the religion of your father Abraham. He called you muslimin (Muslims)," i.e., those who dedicate themselves to God.

This expression GOES BACK TO GENESIS 17:1 in the version of Targum *Onkelos, where Abraham is admonished by God to become shelim, and the subsequent definition of a proselyte as one who dedicates himself to his Creator."

Source: http://what-when-how.com/jews-and-judaism/abrabanel-judah-to-abraham-apocalypse-of-jews-and-judaism/


To be continued ..​

What you've done here was attach an Arabic translation to an Aramaic word. For no reason other than self-serving ones. The Hebrew word that Onkelos is translating is TaMIM, which means complete. In Aramaic, the word is SHLIM. It also means complete.

In neither Hebrew nor Aramaic does SHLIM (or its other Hebrew counterpart SHaLeM), mean submission. It means peace or complete. Translating the Aramaic word based on a similar sounding word in Arabic, makes no sense.
An example of what you're doing:
There's a Muslima here that uses the name Sakeenah. In Arabic this word means tranquility. In Hebrew its sounds like the word knife. Now imagine I proclaimed that the real meaning of her name is knife, because in my language that's what it means. Stupid right? Exactly.

But even without that. Even if we wanted to do this ridiculously stupid thing. It still wouldn't mean that Abraham was a Muslim, because the premise of Judaism is also about submitting oneself to G-d's Laws. So that would fit in just fine, were we so inclined to do this stupid thing you are doing.

 

[Tumah]

Ugh. This is actually the part of the OP I liked least because it means there's going to be more outdated, debunked Muslim arguments trotted out after this one.

You don't understand Hebrew and you're arguing with practising Jews who learned their scriptures in Hebrew. Just give it up, dude; you're not going to win this.

Actually, I guess he put the Hebrew on hold. This post is about a word in Aramaic.

The language the Talmud (and a number of Jewish prayers) is written in...

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Actually, I guess he put the Hebrew on hold. This post is about a word in Aramaic.

The language the Talmud (and a number of Jewish prayers) is written in...

Oh, okay. Thanks for pointing that out. I'ma still enjoy watching him getting taken to the cleaners though.

 

[The Tiger of Islam]

​

What you've done here was attach an Arabic translation to an Aramaic word. For no reason other than self-serving ones. The Hebrew word that Onkelos is translating is TaMIM, which means complete. In Aramaic, the word is SHLIM. It also means complete.

In neither Hebrew nor Aramaic does SHLIM (or its other Hebrew counterpart SHaLeM), mean submission. It means peace or complete. Translating the Aramaic word based on a similar sounding word in Arabic, makes no sense.

Here is Lexicon of Old Testament Hebrew:

Entry for Strong's #7999 - שָׁלֵם


Note the Hebrew word is שָׁלֵם ... From its structure and its letter it is obvious for every one that it is Hebrew word and not Aramaic.

According to Brown-Driver-Briggs Expanded Definition:

[שָׁלֵם]103 verb be complete, sound (Late Hebrew id. (Jastr), Phoenician שלם Pi`el complete, requite, especially in proper name, Lzb376 GACooke99, also 81,111, etc.; Arabic

be safe, secure, free from fault, II. make over, resign to, IV. resign or submit oneself, especially to God, whence participle Muslim, and infinitive Isl¹m properly submission to God; Assyrian šalâmu, be complete, unharmed, be paid; Aramaic שְׁלֵים,

be complete, safe, ᵑ7 peaceful; Old Aramaic שלם reward, repay (Pa; in proper name); compare Sabean סלם peace Hom Chr 124, Arabic

, also

safety, security; Assyrian šulmu, welfare; Ethiopic

Di322 security peace; Aramaic שְׁלָמָא,

security, welfare, Old Aramaic שלם Lzb376, especially = submission, in proper name RS Sem.79f.; Bondi70 (after Brugsch), compare šarm¹, greet, do homage, as loan-word in Egyptian); —

Source: http://www.studylight.org/lexicons/hebrew/hwview.cgi?n=7999​

 

[Tumah]

Assalamu Alaikum

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله

Lets read Genesis 17 From Targum: http://targum.info/pj/pjgen12-7.htm

XVII. And Abram was the son of ninety and nine years, and the Lord appeared to Abram, and said to him, I am El Shadai; serve before Me and be perfect (shelim) in thy flesh. And I will set My covenant between My Word and thee, and will multiply thee very greatly. And because Abram was not circumcised, he was not able to stand, but he bowed himself upon his face

The translators of the Bible twisted the meaning of the word "Shelim" according to their lust to avoid the hurting truth.

1. THE WORLD "SHELIM" MEANS SUBMIT TO GOD IN ISLAM.

Source: Hebrew and Chaldee lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures; translated, with additions, and corrections from the author's Thesaurus and other works ([1857]) ------ Page 830

Link to the book: https://archive.org/details/hebrewchaldeelex00geseuoft

2. According to Brown-Driver-Briggs dictionary of the Bible:

The word "Shelim" in Genesis means MUSLIM.

Source: http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7999.htm

3. According to Encyclopaedia Judaica, Volume 1 By Fred Skolnik and Michael Berenbaum:

Abraham was muslim !!!

"The very word Islam and the idea contained in it, namely that of complete dedication to God, is connected with the story of Abraham, e.g., Sura 2:125, "When God said to him [Abraham], ‘dedicate yourself to God in islam [aslim]‘, he said, ‘I dedicate myself to the Lord of the Worlds.’" Or (22:77): "This is the religion of your father Abraham. He called you muslimin (Muslims)," i.e., those who dedicate themselves to God.

This expression GOES BACK TO GENESIS 17:1 in the version of Targum *Onkelos, where Abraham is admonished by God to become shelim, and the subsequent definition of a proselyte as one who dedicates himself to his Creator."

Source: http://what-when-how.com/jews-and-judaism/abrabanel-judah-to-abraham-apocalypse-of-jews-and-judaism/


To be continued ..​

And of course let's not forget that the lamb or kid that was used for the Passover offering could only be one that was submissive to All-h. That's why in Ex. 12:5 (and every other mention of a sacrifice), Onkelos explains that the animal has to be Shelim, submit to G-d in Islam. Not as we previously thought, that the animal has to be unblemished.
Ex. 12:5 Onlelos' AramaicTramslation -
אמר שׁלים דכר בר שתיה יהי לכון מן אמריּא ומן בני עזיּא תסבון

The NIT (New Islamic Translation) Version
A lamb, that is submissive to All-h, a male of one year, should be for you, from sheep and from sons of goats, you shall take it.

Actually, why stop here? The Aramaic word that we thought means "male (dh'khar)" sounds interestingly similar to the Arabic word for "asset (dhakhar - ذخر)". So we need to fix this.

The NIT Version
A lamb, that is submissive to All-h, an asset of one year should be for you, from sheep and from sons of goats, you shall take it.

Slowly we are getting closer to what the verse is really telling us...

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I see that you are expert in lying and twisting words to deceive others. But I will expose you in front of every smart one.

Stop lying and twisting words to deceive others. Stop claiming knowledge when you are extreme ignorant.

You're accusing someone who knows far more about Hebrew than either of us, who has studied his own religion's scripture in that same tongue, of lying simply because he doesn't agree with your narrative.

It's this sort of anti-intellectual hostility toward dissension that turns people away from Islam and lends to the belief that Islam discourages independent thought.

 

[Tumah]

I see that you are expert in lying and twisting words to deceive others. But I will expose you in front of every smart one.

Here is Lexicon of Old Testament Hebrew:

Entry for Strong's #7999 - שָׁלֵם


Note the Hebrew word is שָׁלֵם ... From its structure and its letter it is obvious for every one that it is Hebrew word and not Aramaic.

According to Brown-Driver-Briggs Expanded Definition:

[שָׁלֵם]103 verb be complete, sound (Late Hebrew id. (Jastr), Phoenician שלם Pi`el complete, requite, especially in proper name, Lzb376 GACooke99, also 81,111, etc.; Arabic View attachment 14292 be safe, secure, free from fault, II. make over, resign to, IV. resign or submit oneself, especially to God, whence participle Muslim, and infinitive Isl¹m properly submission to God; Assyrian šalâmu, be complete, unharmed, be paid; Aramaic שְׁלֵים, View attachment 14293 be complete, safe, ᵑ7 peaceful; Old Aramaic שלם reward, repay (Pa; in proper name); compare Sabean סלם peace Hom Chr 124, Arabic View attachment 14295, also View attachment 14291 safety, security; Assyrian šulmu, welfare; Ethiopic View attachment 14294 Di322 security peace; Aramaic שְׁלָמָא, View attachment 14296 security, welfare, Old Aramaic שלם Lzb376, especially = submission, in proper name RS Sem.79f.; Bondi70 (after Brugsch), compare šarm¹, greet, do homage, as loan-word in Egyptian); —

Source: http://www.studylight.org/lexicons/hebrew/hwview.cgi?n=7999

Stop lying and twisting words to deceive others. Stop claiming knowledge when you are extreme ignorant.​

I see that you are an expert in "not knowing what you're talking about".

Targum Yerushalmi ("Jerusalemite Translation" which is the one you were actually quoting in your OP, not Targum Onkelos) is an ARAMAIC translation of the Torah. If you are quoting him, you are quoting an ARAMAIC word. It is written today with Hebrew letters because we can't read Aramaic script anymore. Just like Jewish Arabs wrote Judeo-Arabic with Hebrew letters. And Jewish Europeans write Judeo-German (Yiddish) with Hebrew letters. In your OP you're not quoting a Hebrew text, you're quoting an Aramaic one.

Aramaic being very closely related to Hebrew, shares many, many common root words with it. Like this one here. The word in the verse you quoted from Onkelos in your OP says "SHLIM" שלים. The word from Strong's that you are quoting is the Hebrew, "SHaLeM" שלם. The former is in Aramaic and the latter is in Hebrew. Stong's actually gives the parallel words in a number of languages in the latter part of the quote

And it says there:
Aramaic שְׁלֵים,

be complete, safe, ᵑ7 peaceful;

But in your OP you quoted Onkelos

When Strong's says "Whence participle Muslim" he means, when the word is used in a Muslim context, then this word that means complete, safe, peaceful or whole in Assyrian, Aramaic, Hebrew and/or Sabean takes on a new meaning which is submission to G-d. But since Onkelos didn't write his commentary in a Islamic context, that translation is not intended for us.

 

[Rival]

What if...just what if in Hebrew 'akbar' meant 'mouse' so really 'Allahu akbar' means Allah is a mouse.

...but that is, of course, just hypothetical...

 

[buddhist]

Well my holy books says that everyone is Buddhist.. Muslims included.

 

[psychoslice]

Labels, labels........they really mean nothing.

 

[Sapiens]

Assalamu Alaikum

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله

Lets read Genesis 17 From Targum: http://targum.info/pj/pjgen12-7.htm

XVII. And Abram was the son of ninety and nine years, and the Lord appeared to Abram, and said to him, I am El Shadai; serve before Me and be perfect (shelim) in thy flesh. And I will set My covenant between My Word and thee, and will multiply thee very greatly. And because Abram was not circumcised, he was not able to stand, but he bowed himself upon his face

The translators of the Bible twisted the meaning of the word "Shelim" according to their lust to avoid the hurting truth.

1. THE WORLD "SHELIM" MEANS SUBMIT TO GOD IN ISLAM.

Source: Hebrew and Chaldee lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures; translated, with additions, and corrections from the author's Thesaurus and other works ([1857]) ------ Page 830

Link to the book: https://archive.org/details/hebrewchaldeelex00geseuoft

2. According to Brown-Driver-Briggs dictionary of the Bible:

The word "Shelim" in Genesis means MUSLIM.

Source: http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7999.htm

3. According to Encyclopaedia Judaica, Volume 1 By Fred Skolnik and Michael Berenbaum:

Abraham was muslim !!!

"The very word Islam and the idea contained in it, namely that of complete dedication to God, is connected with the story of Abraham, e.g., Sura 2:125, "When God said to him [Abraham], ‘dedicate yourself to God in islam [aslim]‘, he said, ‘I dedicate myself to the Lord of the Worlds.’" Or (22:77): "This is the religion of your father Abraham. He called you muslimin (Muslims)," i.e., those who dedicate themselves to God.

This expression GOES BACK TO GENESIS 17:1 in the version of Targum *Onkelos, where Abraham is admonished by God to become shelim, and the subsequent definition of a proselyte as one who dedicates himself to his Creator."

Source: http://what-when-how.com/jews-and-judaism/abrabanel-judah-to-abraham-apocalypse-of-jews-and-judaism/


To be continued ..​

It appears to this atheist that the boy has made two mistakes, first of all he thinks that since he is entitled to his own opinion he is also entitled to his own facts; second, in defense of his own facts he has brought a knife to a gun fight.

 

[ukok102nak]

as if would everyone would agree to
gathered every possible languges that is said to be existed in this planet then somehow someone would learn what were those who protest to self proclaim themselves as christians
but
talking like an animal and
not behaving as a human unto the freedom of some religion to expressed itself
and their gods

and if it its happening now
then its only fair to cook while using a knife rather using a gun while cooking

reason . . .
... its a make believe distorted faith
which much way diffirent from any righteous way of what is good and who cannot lie

. ... if that religion who were protesting as also
demonstrating its very nature
that everyone could see here right now is supposed to believed in this
triune god
and
the very reason of its existence is to literally insult the very gods of any religion
where it self proclaimed themselves as christians
but
who without understanding unto its will and not obeying the very commandments from its very own gods

thats why
those gentiles were
better
than those animals as what
jesus said before
as it is written
:read:
Matthew 12:34
O generation of vipers, how can all of you, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

What if...just what if in Hebrew 'akbar' meant 'mouse' so really 'Allahu akbar' means Allah is a mouse.

...but that is, of course, just hypothetical...

 

[Godobeyer]

Well my holy books says that everyone is Buddhist.. Muslims included.

Really? this is good news for me

 

[The Tiger of Islam]

I see that you are an expert in "not knowing what you're talking about".

Targum Yerushalmi ("Jerusalemite Translation" which is the one you were actually quoting in your OP, not Targum Onkelos) is an ARAMAIC translation of the Torah. If you are quoting him, you are quoting an ARAMAIC word. It is written today with Hebrew letters because we can't read Aramaic script anymore. Just like Jewish Arabs wrote Judeo-Arabic with Hebrew letters. And Jewish Europeans write Judeo-German (Yiddish) with Hebrew letters. In your OP you're not quoting a Hebrew text, you're quoting an Aramaic one.

Aramaic being very closely related to Hebrew, shares many, many common root words with it. Like this one here. The word in the verse you quoted from Onkelos in your OP says "SHLIM" שלים. The word from Strong's that you are quoting is the Hebrew, "SHaLeM" שלם. The former is in Aramaic and the latter is in Hebrew. Stong's actually gives the parallel words in a number of languages in the latter part of the quote

And it says there:
Aramaic שְׁלֵים,

be complete, safe, ᵑ7 peaceful;

But in your OP you quoted Onkelos

When Strong's says "Whence participle Muslim" he means, when the word is used in a Muslim context, then this word that means complete, safe, peaceful or whole in Assyrian, Aramaic, Hebrew and/or Sabean takes on a new meaning which is submission to G-d. But since Onkelos didn't write his commentary in a Islamic context, that translation is not intended for us.

The first time, I thought that you are talking about the Hebrew word mentioned above and not about the Targum itself.

Anyway, but how do you know that Aramaic was not the original language ?!

For example, we can find some Aramaic words in different books of OT like Deuteronomy 33:2

We read in Pulpit Commentary of Deu 33.2:

"The Chatiph is one word, and the K'ri two." The word אשׁדת is best explained as a compound of אֵשׁ, fire, and שׁדא, an Aramaic word signifying to throw or dart; the Syriac , or the Hebrew יָדָה, having the same signification, so that the meaning is "fire-dartings:" from his right hand went rays of fire like arrows shot forth"

We read from Lashon HaKodesh: History, Holiness, & Hebrew by Reuven Chaim Klein:

When mentioning in Deuteronomy 33:2 that God gave the Torah to the Jews, the Torah uses an Aramaic word to describe God "coming" to them. Rabbi Moshe Alshich explains (Toras Moshe there) that the Torah uses an Aramaic word in this context so that the angels would not understand the full implications of God giving the Torah to the Jews. This would prevent them from being jealous of the Jews’ exalted position in God's legions.

This interpretation given by Rabbi Moshe Alshich is pretty ridiculous to run away from the inevitability and the sureness of the corruption.

 

[The Tiger of Islam]

Bear in mind, this post is not completed yet

To be continued ..​

 

[Rival]

Jabar? Is that you?

 

[McBell]

..... in defense of his own facts he has brought a knife to a gun fight.

Hells bells, he did not even bring a knife.
He brought a made of foam rubber replica of an impressive looking weapon.

 

[Sapiens]

Hells bells, he did not even bring a knife.
He brought a made of foam rubber replica of an impressive looking weapon.

He does seem singularly weakly armed, nice use of color though.