Vegetarianism fights Global Warming

[Revoltingest]

I would agree that there are ways to do sustainable farming and ranching. It's just that the folks that actually do that account for a tiny percentage of all such activities. Most farmers and ranchers do not use sustainable methods. I would tell you that it would be veruy hard for you to experience and observe whether your local farmers' practices are sustainable. Are you measure topsoil levels from year to year?

I actually watch various fields for erosion effects.
And when I travel, I'm always checking out fields for various practices.
This is a sign of a very disturbed mind.

Are you measuring bio-levels within the soil? How about the underlying aquifer you're using? How about the folks that live downstream and/or downwind from your community? The odds are slim that your community is truly practicing sustainability. This is just a statistical claim. It's of course possible that you live in an extremely rare situation.

I monitor our aquifer passively, noting which neighbors have difficulty in our driest years.
We have a very healthy one here.

 

[lovesong]

There is a form of cowardice there - like it or not - because death is involved. You are a coward for not facing it. You always will be.

This reminds me a lot of surgery. Surgery is a bloody, gory process that many of us are too squeamish to partake in. Surgery also leads to death in some cases. Are you a coward for taking advantage of surgeons' willingness to do it if you don't watch? No, this is ridiculous, just like the idea of being a coward for being too squeamish to cut open an animal.

 

[icehorse]

I actually watch various fields for erosion effects.
And when I travel, I'm always checking out fields for various practices.
This is a sign of a very disturbed mind.

I monitor our aquifer passively, noting which neighbors have difficulty in our driest years.
We have a very healthy one here.

While I applaud your efforts, and observational skills, monitoring for sustainable practices isn't something to be done with the naked eye. Can you tell - for example - if the average topsoil depth in your community has dropped by a 1/4" in the last decade? If it's dropping steadily at that rate, your great grandchildren won't find your observations too comforting.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

This reminds me a lot of surgery. Surgery is a bloody, gory process that many of us are too squeamish to partake in. Surgery also leads to death in some cases. Are you a coward for taking advantage of surgeons' willingness to do it if you don't watch? No, this is ridiculous, just like the idea of being a coward for being too squeamish to cut open an animal.

I know you knew that this was bogus when you wrote it because of the bolded bit above. Are you seriously attempting to compare an act of someone attempting to save a life to the process of taking one? Seriously now - just think about it.

 

[Revoltingest]

While I applaud your efforts, and observational skills, monitoring for sustainable practices isn't something to be done with the naked eye. Can you tell - for example - if the average topsoil depth in your community has dropped by a 1/4" in the last decade? If it's dropping steadily at that rate, your great grandchildren won't find your observations too comforting.

It's not something I quantify.
But this matters not, since no one asks my opinion about such things anyway.

 

[lovesong]

I know you knew that this was bogus when you wrote it because of the bolded bit above. Are you seriously attempting to compare an act of someone attempting to save a life to the process of taking one? Seriously now - just think about it.

Both are bloody and gory. Both benefit the consumer of the service. Choosing to take that service while being too squeamish to watch it, or simply uninterested, does not make one a coward. That is the point.

I can also bring this back around to the Chinese laborers. How is it cowardice to buy meat that you did not slaughter but not cowardice to buy products made in China without being willing to face the reality of the workers' mistreatment?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I know you knew that this was bogus when you wrote it because of the bolded bit above. Are you seriously attempting to compare an act of someone attempting to save a life to the process of taking one? Seriously now - just think about it.

Some doctors are serial killers, some abuse their position, and some get caught up in unethical practices. And do think of all those dissected fetal pigs and sheep organs and other gory and messy parts that go into the schooling of a doctor.

 

[Curious George]

I would like it if some people would get off their high horse, so I could eat it.

 

[Chakra]

Both are bloody and gory. Both benefit the consumer of the service. Choosing to take that service while being too squeamish to watch it, or simply uninterested, does not make one a coward. That is the point.

I can also bring this back around to the Chinese laborers. How is it cowardice to buy meat that you did not slaughter but not cowardice to buy products made in China without being willing to face the reality of the workers' mistreatment?

So are you essentially saying that if we can't fix all the world's problems, we shouldn't even try?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Both are bloody and gory. Both benefit the consumer of the service. Choosing to take that service while being too squeamish to watch it, or simply uninterested, does not make one a coward. That is the point.

I can also bring this back around to the Chinese laborers. How is it cowardice to buy meat that you did not slaughter but not cowardice to buy products made in China without being willing to face the reality of the workers' mistreatment?

Am I unwilling to face the realities of the worker's mistreatment? I'm not so sure I would be. There is, at least, not death, blood and gore involved. Nor pain on the scale we're talking - I could witness it, surely, and perhaps I would think differently about consuming products made in China. What do you think might be the answer from the Chinese worker as to whether or not he would like me to buy the products he has labored to make? Does it mean he has no job if we don't? Are the alternatives of employment, given the population of China, when those opportunities are gone any better? Possibly even worse?

At any rate, causing the death of another being is what we're talking about here. Watching surgery is not actively participating in killing something - nor even watching the act of something being brutally killed in front of you. It is a completely different category of act.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So are you essentially saying that if we can't fix all the world's problems, we shouldn't even try?

I think it has more to do with the hypocrisy of going on about vegetarianism and the treatment of animals and insisting people change their diets, but no mentioning anything about the abhorrent work conditions found throughout China, and not condemning people lined outside of an Apple store to buy the new iPhone (when they run out of phones, it is because the already severely overworked workers literally cannot produce them any faster). It's a group saying they care, but their solution of care is to put a band-aid on a festering wound that is gushing blood.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Some doctors are serial killers, some abuse their position, and some get caught up in unethical practices. And do think of all those dissected fetal pigs and sheep organs and other gory and messy parts that go into the schooling of a doctor.

Key word? "Some". And while I don't agree with using animals in testing or even the advancement of medicine or training, even the number of animals used for those purposes pales in comparison to those raised and used for slaughter on a daily basis. Did you not read any of my posts mocking you people for holding up small, even singular instances of something as a refutation of the entire subject we're discussing? It's ridiculous. "Some doctors are serial killers"? What kind of point is that even supposed to make? You're grasping at straws. It's idiotic. I'm begging you to stop so that I can stop feeling guilty for having to make fun of you.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is, at least, not death, blood and gore involved.

There actually is death, blood, and gore involved.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
And that's just one company. There are many companies that put workers in very unsafe conditions, impossible to escape conditions when there is something like a fire, making them work with deadly chemicals, and other practices that pretty much have these exploited workers (found in many places other than China) sacrificing themselves so global capitalism can continue unfettered and unabated.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I think it has more to do with the hypocrisy of going on about vegetarianism and the treatment of animals and insisting people change their diets, but no mentioning anything about the abhorrent work conditions found throughout China, and not condemning people lined outside of an Apple store to buy the new iPhone (when they run out of phones, it is because the already severely overworked workers literally cannot produce them any faster). It's a group saying they care, but their solution of care is to put a band-aid on a festering wound that is gushing blood.

Once again - there is a choice available there - however small it is. I ask again - what would those Chinese workers say if all Americans decided to boycott all of those products? Do you think they'd be happy they were all out of a job? How would the Chinese economy fair? Given the choice, would they stay where they are at if they were pressed with that vs. the uncertainty of trying to find ANY employment given a shriveled U.S. trade business and the glaring populations of China? Why is no one answering MY questions?

Does an animal in a factory farm have any sort of choice? If I posed the same sort of query, and the animals could answer, do you think they would want me to continue to buy meat? Would continue to want to provide the service they are being forced to provide? Do you think for a second their answer would be "yes", that that is where they want to stay? ANSWER MY QUESTIONS... I dare you.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

There actually is death, blood, and gore involved.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
And that's just one company. There are many companies that put workers in very unsafe conditions, impossible to escape conditions when there is something like a fire, making them work with deadly chemicals, and other practices that pretty much have these exploited workers (found in many places other than China) sacrificing themselves so global capitalism can continue unfettered and unabated.

Read my last reply to you and respond. Until then I am no longer replying to you. It is a waste of time.

Besides - you can't point at SOME OTHER PROBLEM ENTIRELY and say that anyone advocating for their chosen problem should be any less outspoken about it! It's idiotic! You're trying to defend yourselves by CHANGING THE SUBJECT. Since when has that ever been a valid debate technique? What are you, 12?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm begging you to stop so that I can stop feeling guilty for having to make fun of you.

Yet you are the one who called us cowards because we won't have anything to do with the death part, even though many people, including some of us on this thread, have been through the whole "hunt-kill-clean-eat" thing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Once again - there is a choice available there - however small it is. I ask again - what would those Chinese workers say if all Americans decided to boycott all of those products? Do you think they'd be happy they were all out of a job? How would the Chinese economy fair? Given the choice, would they stay where they are at if they were pressed with that vs. the uncertainty of trying to find ANY employment given a shriveled U.S. trade business and the glaring populations of China? Why is no one answering MY questions?

You really have no idea how bad it gets, do you? People have been burnt alive from unsafe work conditions, develop horrible disorders and diseases from the things they inhale, and have even killed themselves to escape the exploitation.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Yet you are the one who called us cowards because we won't have anything to do with the death part, even though many people, including some of us on this thread, have been through the whole "hunt-kill-clean-eat" thing.
How about you quit putting yourself on a high horse so my eyes can relax from having to roll them.

Please... please tell me how YOU hunting changes anyone else's motives or behavior? The mass majority THAT I WAS SPEAKING OF. Tell me how your anecdotal "hunting" experiences change ANYTHING I have said. Please... go ahead. I'm waiting.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

You really have no idea how bad it gets, do you?

Not an answer.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Please... please tell me how YOU hunting changes anyone else's motives or behavior? The mass majority THAT I WAS SPEAKING OF. Tell me how your anecdotal "hunting" experiences change ANYTHING I have said. Please... go ahead. I'm waiting.

It changes what you said because you accused us all being cowards because we won't have anything to do with it, and you said this to people who have had something to do with it. It changes what you said because it shows you blatant your broad-brushed painting is.

Not an answer.

It is an answer, you just aren't seeing it. Your question is about on par with asking "how will the slaves feel with their newfound freedom?"