ISKCON debunked by dvaita school

[kalyan]

I think this discussion should help people who do not want to fall under the fake iskcon gaudiya teachings and apply their logic in progressing on their spiritual path...A complete fabrication

 

[Aupmanyav]

interpolation [in-tur-puh-ley-shuh n]:
noun
1. the act or process of interpolating or the state of being interpolated.
2. something interpolated, as a passage introduced into a text.
3. Mathematics:
a) the process of determining the value of a function between two points at which it has prescribed values.
b) a similar process using more than two points at which the function has prescribed values.
c) the process of approximating a given function by using its values at a discrete set of points.

 

[atanu]

Same faith debate !?

Yes. Please.

 

[kalyan]

interpolation [in-tur-puh-ley-shuh n]:
noun
1. the act or process of interpolating or the state of being interpolated.
2. something interpolated, as a passage introduced into a text.
3. Mathematics:
a) the process of determining the value of a function between two points at which it has prescribed values.
b) a similar process using more than two points at which the function has prescribed values.
c) the process of approximating a given function by using its values at a discrete set of points.

I wud appreciate if you stop posting out of topic posts.

Thank you

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram Kalyan ji

I hate ISCKON with passion because of their ridiculous injections and corrupting the history of vedantik scholars just the sentiment that the author of dvaita school reflected in the OP. I think with the modern age internet, ISCKON cannot bluff people no longer in their scriptural corruptions.

Prabhu Ji ,...
why ''hate'' , ..and even worse '' hate with a passion '' ! ....when Krsna himself says , ....

One who is equal to friends and enemies, who is equiposed in honor and dishonor, heat and cold, happiness and distress, fame and infamy, who is always free from contamination, always silent and satisfied with anything, who doesn't care for any residence, who is fixed in knowledge and engaged in devotional service, is very dear to Me. ...Bhagavad Gita Ch ..12 V ..18-19​

Sri Krsna also says , .....

The Blessed Lord said: He whose mind is fixed on My personal form, always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith, is considered by Me to be most perfect. ....Ch ..12 V ..2
​

he says nothing about finding faut or criticising others devotional methods or the philosopies of individual traditions , he only says ''fix your mind on Me''

​

Iskcon Devotees very nicely fix their mind on Sri Krsna , ....why the Criticism of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu when this is exactly what he taught and exactly what he practiced ...?

A devotee who is not dependant on the ordinary course of activities, who is pure, expert, without cares, free from all pains, and who does not strive for some result, is very dear to Me. ....Ch ..12 V ..16​

Free from all pains , ...so why hate ? just follow your devotions and rejoice that others follow theirs , ....why strive to cause Dispute amongst Vaisnavas ? does this please Sri Bhagavan ?

For one who worships Me, giving up all his activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, who has fixed his mind upon Me, O son of Pṛthā, for him I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death. ....Ch ..12 V ..6-7​

''Without deviation'' , .....why waste time criticising another just meditate on Sri Bhagavan , ...

Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always, without a doubt. ....Ch ..12 V ..8​

''engage your inteligence in me'' ....no where does it say Squander your inteligence by engaging in fault finding , ....

One who is not envious but who is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor, who is free from false ego and equal both in happiness and distress, who is always satisfied and engaged in devotional service with determination and whose mind and intelligence are in agreement with Me-he is very dear to Me.
....Ch ..12 V ..13-14
​

Devote oneself with determination , and engage in devotional service this is inteligence used wisely , Such devotion is very pleasing to Krsna , ...

​

He for whom no one is put into difficulty and who is not dirturbed by anxiety, who is steady in happiness and distress, is very dear to Me.
A devotee who is not dependant on the ordinary course of activities, who is pure, expert, without cares, free from all pains, and who does not strive for some result, is very dear to Me. ....Ch ..12 V ..15-16​

and what result is crushing another ? .....Why ? what is there to prove , ...what devotion is shown by acting this way ?

One who neither grasps pleasure or grief, who neither laments nor desires, and who renounces both auspicious and inauspicious things, is very dear to Me. ....Ch ..12 V ..17​

Why desire to bring another down ? ...what pleasure is there in this persuit ?

He who follows this imperishable path of devotional service and who completely engages himself with faith, making Me the supreme goal, is very, very dear to Me.
....Ch ..12 V ..20
​

''who completely engages himself'' .....all one need do is Chant , ...Bolo Bolo ! ....Worship Hari ! ....be a freind to all ,.... act in a way that Krsna will be pleased to see ! ....Forget Debating with scholars , ....become a devotee of the Lord , ...Chant his name constantly , ...

what bluff are you talking about ,?....Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu , gave out the chanting of the holy name to all who would take it , ...those who have taken it and who have tasted love of the Supreme person will happily tell you it is no Bluff , .....
in Srila Prabhupadas own words , ....''Chant and Be Happy'' .....

​

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Terese ji , ....

This hurts me quite deeply. No need to study the Vedas? Are you mad?

for many years I studied only Bhagavad Gita , ..Ramayana and Mahabarata , ....even though later I have read other texts everything I need in this life I have found in that one Chapter The Song of Bhagavan , .....Everything !
but then it is well known that I am Mad , ......

 

[ratikala]

you cannot be serious in saying this because he himself has no works to his name and then how can you says according to chaitanya....Not good

prabhu ji , ...who needs works to his name when he has given chanting freely to all , ....which is more valuble ? .....answer is simple Krsna Prema !

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram Kalyan ji , ...

Also @निताइ dasa

Also Ratikala almost made me believe that madhva school has accepted this tradition but she is completely wrong and off the mark! Madhvas have distanced you long time back !

If I remember correctly I gave letters from senior members who advocated acceptance , ....

Sri H. H. Sri Vidyadisa Tirtha Swamiji
Car Street, Udupi


Sri Prabhupada has accepted Sri Madhwacharya as his "Acarya."


He has put manure and water to the seed sowed by Sri Madhwacharya. Sri Prabhupada is responsible for the spread of the branches of the tree of "Bhakti cult" all over India. It is the duty of all Madhwas to recognize the sadhana of Vaishnavite Sri Prabhupada.


It is true that there is a difference between "Chaitanya school" and "Madhwa school." In spite of the difference between the two schools of thought, one has to look into the similar thoughts that exist between the two. Therefore, the followers of these two cults should never blame each other nor envy each other.


One should not use bad words on the other. One should respect the other and vice-versa. All Madhwas should unite themselves.


Sri H. H. Sri Vidyadisa Tirtha Swamiji



This is one letter of Five known to me , from .....
Pejavara Swami
Palimar Swami
Shiroor Swami
Kaniyoor Swami
Subramanya Swami

if l am wrong then it is because I am ever hopefull that we can live in peace with oneanother devoting our time to higher persuits , ....the Glorification of Sri Hari !

 

[ratikala]

Nanaskaram Nitai dasa ji , ....


Jai Jai , ...so you posted the same plea's for sanity , .....Letters from Senior members of Madhava liniage , ....

kalyan said: ↑
These are junk, anyone would do this for money and Iskcon has lots of money,

So you are accusing the Madhav leaders of taking bribes now?

I am in shock , ....@kalyan ji you canot be serious these are renounced sanyasi !!!

 

[ratikala]

I am in shock , ....@kalyan ji you canot be serious these are renounced sanyasi !!!

if Sanyasis accept bribes then the liniage is broken , it is destroyed , Krsna will walk out of Udupi , ....

I am totaly disgusted , .....Kalyan ji you have taken a large step backwards in your sadhana please remember the Qualities you listed some months back , ...please revisit this post , ....please remember some of the things you said , then tell me honestly are you improving in your own personal sadhana by posting provocative and sensationalist threads ?

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Nanaskaram Nitai dasa ji , ....Jai Jai , ...so you posted the same plea's for sanity , .....Letters from Senior members of Madhava liniage , ....

Except, you have not posted the full story.

You missed the final letter in the series. It turned out that the Pejawar Swami who was praising ISKCON had no idea about the stories fabricated by Bhakti Vinoda Takur (on Chaitanya traveling back in time, appearing in Madhva's dream and making him cry).

When The Pejawar Swamy learnt about these fabrications, he issued this (final) letter -
http://www.dvaita.net/pdf/iskcon.pdf

So, it is beyond dispute at this point that the position paper issued by the Poorna Prajna center is well researched and clarifies that ISKCON does not align with the doctrine of Madhva's Tattavada. There is also no way that ISKCON can disavow the writings of BVT - no matter how ludicrous it is - as he is a critical and important figure in the tradition. And that settles the matter.

Besides, after the scandals 15 years ago, when Prabhupada's hand picked disciples - who were to carry the torch forward - were caught and indicted for a series of cases on child abuse, etc., ISKCON lost its attraction. Today, people are much more well educated on the dangers of getting into such cults and so the earlier frenzy has long been dead.

 

[Terese]

Except, you have not posted the full story.

You missed the final letter in the series. It turned out that the Pejawar Swami who was praising ISKCON had no idea about the stories fabricated by Bhakti Vinoda Takur (on Chaitanya traveling back in time, appearing in Madhva's dream and making him cry).

When The Pejawar Swamy learnt about these fabrications, he issued this (final) letter -
http://www.dvaita.net/pdf/iskcon.pdf

So, it is beyond dispute at this point that the position paper issued by the Poorna Prajna center is well researched and clarifies that ISKCON does not align with the doctrine of Madhva's Tattavada. There is also no way that ISKCON can disavow the writings of BVT - no matter how ludicrous it is - as he is a critical and important figure in the tradition. And that settles the matter.

Besides, after the scandals 15 years ago, when Prabhupada's hand picked disciples - who were to carry the torch forward - were caught and indicted for a series of cases on child abuse, etc., ISKCON lost its attraction. Today, people are much more well educated on the dangers of getting into such cults and so the earlier frenzy has long been dead.

The link is broken @shivsomashekhar

 

[निताइ dasa]

So, it is beyond dispute at this point that the position paper issued by the Poorna Prajna center is well researched and clarifies that ISKCON does not align with the doctrine of Madhva's Tattavada

Yes, it does not align completely with Madhav's Tattvavada, we never said it does. But there are similiarities. As for the writings of BVT, I have said previously, that such pastimes are not to be shared among non Gaudiyas. They only hold weight in our tradition, no where else. I mean, I don't see how its an offensive thing lol. From a Gaudiya position, lord Chaitanya is God, so it is a great honor for Madhavacharya to see Him in a dream. From a non-Gaudiya position, BVT is not an authority on anything, so it should not really matter either way.

As for the paper, its not well researched lol. It doesn't really demonstrate Gaudiya views very well at all, if I say so myself. I can easily refute everyone of the points made in that article.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Don't know what is the problem.

"Shreyan svadharmo vigunah, paradharmat svanushthitat, svadharme nidhanam shreyah, paradharmo bhayavahah." BG 3.35
(It is far better to discharge one's prescribed duties, even though faultily, than another's duties perfectly.
Destruction in the course of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties, for to follow another's path is dangerous)

 

[kalyan]

if Sanyasis accept bribes then the liniage is broken , it is destroyed , Krsna will walk out of Udupi , ....

I am totaly disgusted , .....Kalyan ji you have taken a large step backwards in your sadhana please remember the Qualities you listed some months back , ...please revisit this post , ....please remember some of the things you said , then tell me honestly are you improving in your own personal sadhana by posting provocative and sensationalist threads ?

I am not taking a step back now as the proofs are right in front of my eyes as clear as the sky..You are trying to live in denial and not accepting the truth that isckon and Gaudiya have completely frauded people trying to corrupt histories of famous scholars and promoting anti vedic teachings.....You cannot keep people in dark in Internet age for much longer

...who needs works to his name

History needs works...u cannot create people out of thin air

 

[kalyan]

Except, you have not posted the full story.

You missed the final letter in the series. It turned out that the Pejawar Swami who was praising ISKCON had no idea about the stories fabricated by Bhakti Vinoda Takur (on Chaitanya traveling back in time, appearing in Madhva's dream and making him cry).

When The Pejawar Swamy learnt about these fabrications, he issued this (final) letter -
http://www.dvaita.net/pdf/iskcon.pdf

So, it is beyond dispute at this point that the position paper issued by the Poorna Prajna center is well researched and clarifies that ISKCON does not align with the doctrine of Madhva's Tattavada. There is also no way that ISKCON can disavow the writings of BVT - no matter how ludicrous it is - as he is a critical and important figure in the tradition. And that settles the matter.

Besides, after the scandals 15 years ago, when Prabhupada's hand picked disciples - who were to carry the torch forward - were caught and indicted for a series of cases on child abuse, etc., ISKCON lost its attraction. Today, people are much more well educated on the dangers of getting into such cults and so the earlier frenzy has long been dead.

Thanks for this.

The link is broken @shivsomashekhar

Works for me

 

[Terese]

Thanks for this.

Works for me

What does it say?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Vishnu was a minor Indo-Aryan God with a total of six hymns dedicated to him in RigVeda. REFUTE THAT.
(as compared to 289 hymns dedicated to Indra, 218 to Agni and 123 to Soma; and Krishna is not a RigVedic deity)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigvedic_deities
Case closed.

 

[Terese]

Vishnu was a minor Indo-Aryan God with a total of six hymns dedicated to him in RigVeda. REFUTE THAT.
(as compared to 289 hymns dedicated to Indra, 218 to Agni and 123 to Soma; and Krishna is not a RigVedic deity)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigvedic_deities
Case closed.

Aup, the Rig-Veda refers to Sriman Narayana alone as supreme. Hymns to Indra are not referring to Indra the deva, but it refers to the definition, 'leader'.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Does it? (probably the last post in this thread, offended by attacks and counter-attacks)
"Vishnu and Rudra, the prominent deities of later Hinduism (Rudra being an early form of Shiva), are present as marginal gods."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigvedic_deities