buddhist
Well-Known Member
Which one, and how did he confirm this to you?I believe He has confirmed it.
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Which one, and how did he confirm this to you?I believe He has confirmed it.
How are you sure you believe in the right Jesus?
Yes, you are correct in that I do not know for myself who Barrack Obama is - I do not have "faith" in or against him, as I do not perceive that his existence or non-existence impacts in any significant way my ultimate well-being.You don't know what you are talking about again. In this reality, you don't even bother verifying the existence of Barrack Obama if you are not an american. Since when you verify anything said by the media before you swallow it with faith!
Yes, you are correct in that I do not know for myself who Barrack Obama is - I do not have "faith" in or against him, as I do not perceive that his existence or non-existence impacts in any significant way my ultimate well-being.
"Jesus Christ" is claimed by many as someone who does impact my ultimate well-being, however, and so I demand evidence for him and his doctrines.
Yes, you are correct in that I do not know for myself who Barrack Obama is - I do not have "faith" in or against him, as I do not perceive that his existence or non-existence impacts in any significant way my ultimate well-being.
"Jesus Christ" is claimed by many as someone who does impact my ultimate well-being, however, and so I demand evidence for him and his doctrines.
I would expect a deity/god/all/universal divine/universal reality to do better than to record its message in one historical language - a language (along with texts) which can become lost, misunderstood, misinterpreted, mishandled, misrecorded, mistranslated; not to mention, giving its message through a limited number of intermediaries (creating an intercessory hierarchy or prophets/priests/etc. to be believed in) instead of revealing itself directly to everyone, through all time. That's all quite short sighted of a deity who is expected to be omniscient, omnipresent, and almighty.History is history, as recorded by humans. Do you mean simply because your demand in the year 2016 that humans in AD 50 should write things more evident to you?
To put it another way, what do you expect them to do? Borrow a video cam from God to record down Jesus' deeds?
IMO, if there was a supreme deity or universal reality, the best way would be to record its message in the laws of reality itself, laws plainly evident to everyone, through all time - past, present, future - a message which is clear, permanent, and undeniable, without the need for intermediaries or "interpreters" of the "divine will".Tell us, what else can be done?
I would expect a deity/god/all/universal divine/universal reality to do better than to record its message in one historical language - a language (along with texts) which can become lost, misunderstood, misinterpreted, mishandled, misrecorded, mistranslated; not to mention, giving its message through a limited number of intermediaries (creating an intercessory hierarchy or prophets/priests/etc. to be believed in) instead of revealing itself directly to everyone, through all time. That's all quite short sighted of a deity who is expected to be omniscient, omnipresent, and almighty.
I'm not singling out Christianity, as this argument applies to any faith-based religion.
IMO, if there was a supreme deity, the best way would be to record its message in the laws of reality itself, laws plainly evident to everyone, through all time - past, present, future - a message which is clear, permanent, and undeniable, without the need for intermediaries or "interpreters" of the "divine will".
IMO there isn't any such "document", since I don't support the idea that God/Supreme Reality records it message in specific language(s) or document(s).The basic criteria is that you are bound to a covenant which you need to rely on your faith to be saved. God thus won't do anything supernaturally obvious to everyone. That's the bottom line.
That said, show us another document which is better preserved by applying your standard.
IMO there isn't any such "document", since I don't support the idea that God/Supreme Reality records it message in specific language(s) or document(s).
As I said, if there was such a Supreme Reality, I expect that its message is recorded in Reality itself - which is what early Buddhism basically teaches. Laws such as that of rebirth, cause-and-effect, etc., laws which are plainly evident to every wisely observant individual throughout time and space.
Do you know - directly, for yourself - that the records of Jesus' alleged eyewitnesses and of their alleged martyrdoms were not fabricated?God's wisdom is no how a message can be conveyed among humans. The fundamental way for humans to get to any truth is
1) for humans as witnesses to write it down,
2) for other humans to believe.
Budda didn't even know this is the only way how a truth can be conveyed among humans. Even a scientific truth is conveyed this way. Say, we don't actually examine the existence of black holes. The scientists as the direct witnesses will write this down for other 99% humans to believe that black hole exists.
The more valid witnessing relies on that Jesus' eye witnesses chose to martyr themselves for what had been recorded down. No witnessing can be made more legitimate, today we have video and audio recordings to 'enhance' our witnessing though.
The whole purpose of the Bible is that it's theologically preserve serving the purpose of 'calling His sheep'. As long as all His sheep answer the call, God's job is done. He will do no more and no less.
Do you know - directly, for yourself - that the records of Jesus' eyewitnesses and of their martyrdom were not fabricated?
No, I'm not the one claiming that we should believe in ancient writings without the ability to personally verify them.No. You are leveraging the nature of history. The nature of history is that it's not verifiable. Or do you have any human writings (especially those written 2000 years ago) that you can confirm that they are not fabricated?
History, as a specific kind of truth, will have to rely on the same two factors to stand. 1) someone write it down, and 2) everyone else to put faith to believe.
No, I'm not the one claiming that we should believe in ancient writings without the ability to personally verify them.
No, but I would question everything until they can be personally verified, especially ones claiming to affect my ultimate destiny.The point is, no human writings can be verified even in the case the a truth was recorded down. So, what is your recommendation? Disregard all human writings?
No, but I would question everything until they can be personally verified, especially ones claiming to affect my ultimate destiny.
The early Buddhist writings apparently originated ~2,400 years ago, but I don't take them on faith alone. Its teachings and doctrines are described as personally verifiable by every individual throughout time (a unique characteristic of the Buddhist Dhamma, as compared to faith-based religions). I've verified and know - for myself - the early steps of the Way taught by early Buddhism, which creates faith in me regarding the upcoming steps I must take to verify and know them (eventually) for myself.
... if you don't need verification, what stops you from believing other religious narratives, regarding Zeus, Apollo, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Allah, Ahura Mazda, or any other alleged deity?... verification is overstated as in this reality we don't verify before believe.
Yes, you are correct in that I do not know for myself who Barrack Obama is - I do not have "faith" in or against him, as I do not perceive that his existence or non-existence impacts in any significant way my ultimate well-being.
"Jesus Christ" is claimed by many as someone who does impact my ultimate well-being, however, and so I demand evidence for him and his doctrines.
What answers did you arrive at?It's spelled Barack Obama. Or Barry Soetoro. Never mind, the latter is an American joke.
The way I started was how did life begin (and not just by having sex) and why are we here?
What answers did you arrive at?