WHY I LEFT ISLAM - The Story of An Apostate In Saudi

[leibowde84]

Islam can not be reformed

Why not? Every other system of faith has been. Is it just stubbornness in the faith, or fear of divine retribution?

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Why not? Every other system of faith has been. Is it just stubbornness in the faith, or fear of divine retribution?

Because they think that would involve changing the words in the Koran (

 

[LuisDantas]

Will you agree with this verse then, it's from the quran, the holy book for the Muslims?

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.(2:256)

Sure. As pointed out even in this very thread, that verse is opposed by others. Even by 2:257, the very next verse:

Allah is the Protecting Guardian of those who believe. He bringeth them out of darkness into light. As for those who disbelieve, their patrons are false deities. They bring them out of light into darkness. Such are rightful owners of the Fire. They will abide therein.

For more details, see http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/free.html

But what worries me most of all is that people insist on quoting scripture in order to justify their beliefs and actions. Scripture is no substitute for living religious wisdom, which is a basic responsibility of any religious practice IMO.

Not insulting but just my opinion.

Make no mistake. You were insulting me outright.

 

[leibowde84]

Because they think that would involve changing the words in the Koran (

So, what's the problem? Muhammad didn't write it anyways.

 

[Shia Islam]

Every body is talking about Islam...
But how do they know Islam...
Most of them did not read the Quran...
Don't understand the difference between the different Islamic sects and views..

Also, They don't understand the Islamic world and its culture...
Generally speacking there are almost no atheists in most of the Islamic world...

Those who have read the Quran will realize that Muslims who read the quran at least five times a day will never apostate. Many of those claim to be apostates are seeking refugee in western countries for one reason or another.

 

[leibowde84]

Will you agree with this verse then, it's from the quran, the holy book for the Muslims?

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.(2:256)



Not insulting but just my opinion.

This is certainly a personal insult to anyone who doesn't adhere to Islam. You are literally saying that they will burn in hell. Doesn't get more personally insulting than that. Yet, many Muslims get upset when Muhammad is insulted. Seems to be way worse to claim that certain people are destined for hell due to them believing the wrong thing than merely insulting a historical figure. And, just to be clear, many other religions are guilty of this as well.

 

[outhouse]

. I'm living the religion and everyone (hopefully) seems to have good impressions about me.

And I agree. As far as people go, I know you to be great people.

The problem starts because you do not represent all of islam.

So to try and give an example of what I'm talking about, it would be the same if we said YEC have good people too. Yes they do. But they still place a book before science and education and credible knowledge much the same way islam requires complete devotion to their lives.

With this level of devotion however, many people in the religion do terrible things to other muslims and others people from other places because of the religion and this level of devotion.

What warning do you believe I ignored?

It can be taken many ways, but Muhammad did warn the people about levels of devotion.


I think back to the glory days or golden age of islam when education was placed before the koran, right after islam originated. I think these people had a proper grasp of the religion.

That was lost with time as people became too devoted. IMHO

 

[leibowde84]

Every body is talking about Islam...
But how do they know Islam...
Most of them did not read the Quran...
Don't understand the difference between the different Islamic sects and views..

Also, They don't understand the Islamic world and its culture...
Generally speacking there are almost no atheists in most of the Islamic world...

Those who have read the Quran will realize that Muslims who read the quran at least five times a day will never apostate. Many of those claim to be apostates are seeking refugee in western countries for one reason or another.

If anyone reads anything 5 times a day, they will start believing in it. Seems like a way to force and retain adherents. Just my opinion though.

 

[outhouse]

Every body is talking about Islam...
But how do they know Islam...

One only has to watch the news to see the religion embarrassing itself almost daily, for the terrible things that take place under its name.

No other religion has this level of problems against humanity.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

So, what's the problem? Muhammad didn't write it anyways.

Nice way to go insult the world second largest religious group .
Yes Islam can be evolved(al-bari) they just don't know it , but can not change any of old , Koran really should have empty pages at rear even if they remained empty forever.

 

[outhouse]

Generally speacking there are almost no atheists in most of the Islamic world...

That's because many muslims would murder them. IMHO well that and read any news that shows how islam treats others including Christians they murder just for having different faith.

 

[leibowde84]

Nice way to go insult the world second largest religious group .
Yes Islam can be evolved(al-bari) they just don't know it , but can not change any of old , Koran really should have empty pages at rear even if they remained empty forever.

How is that an insult?! It is well known that Muhammad didn't wrote the Quran. It is claimed that Muhammad dictated it (for the most part), as he was illiterate.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

How is that an insult?! It is well known that Muhammad didn't wrote the Quran. It is claimed that Muhammad dictated it (for the most part), as he was illiterate.

Because they easier to insult than us regarding religious matter .

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Because they easier to insult than us regarding religious matter .

Are you saying what Leibowde said was insult because Muslims are easily offended?

 

[FearGod]

Sure. As pointed out even in this very thread, that verse is opposed by others. Even by 2:257, the very next verse:


For more details, see http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/free.html

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/free.html

The next verse(2:257) is about how God will treat them which isn't of our business

But what worries me most of all is that people insist on quoting scripture in order to justify their beliefs and actions. Scripture is no substitute for living religious wisdom, which is a basic responsibility of any religious practice IMO.

The quran is a guidance for Muslims, so if it says no compulsion in religion then it should means no compulsion,
The outcome of it, as to believe or to disbelieve is God's business and not ours.

For example God says don't eat pigs, but didn't say kill the pigs, so it means that pigs will still exist
and some people will still not believe and will eat it

Make no mistake. You were insulting me outright.

I don't see where the insult is?

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Are you saying what Leibowde said was insult because Muslims are easily offended?

No I'm saying Muslims love God more so is easier to hurt thier feelings .Not just they easily offended they take there religion v seriously is top tier of religious system as regards submitting to God .
I know I could not live standard of a true Muslim

 

[RebornHindu]

The trouble with Islam is that Muslims don't talk about it openly in the same way as, say, Christians do in the West. In England everyone knows you could go into a church at any time during its opening hours and talk to someone (or confess, or whatever), but practically nobody knows that you can do the same with a Mosque (whether you're muslim or not). You can go in, and talk to an Imam about your problems.

Now the problem with being so insular about Islam is that it has allowed the Media to paint quite a brutish picture of it, which an increasing number of people accept as what Islam really is. Muslims will say 'this isn't what Islam is,' but they don't really do anything pro-active to educate the people.

If Islam needs one reform, it's that Muslims should stop being so insular

I agree with you. The media can make anything look like what it isn't. They do that with everything which now I tend not to really watch the news anymore. They can paint a race of people any way they want to on the news as well as a religious group. I think Muslims should change from being so insular. Stand up and show everyone what Islam really is, instead of just saying what it isn't... no disrespect to the Muslim community of course. I respect everyone.

 

[FearGod]

This is certainly a personal insult to anyone who doesn't adhere to Islam. You are literally saying that they will burn in hell. Doesn't get more personally insulting than that. Yet, many Muslims get upset when Muhammad is insulted. Seems to be way worse to claim that certain people are destined for hell due to them believing the wrong thing than merely insulting a historical figure. And, just to be clear, many other religions are guilty of this as well.

No, we aren't the ones who say who's going to hell or to heaven.
If you don't believe then how that is insulting? do you mean God
is insulting the disbelievers by letting them in the hell or what ?

 

[RebornHindu]

No I'm saying Muslims love God more so is easier to hurt thier feelings .Not just they easily offended they take there religion v seriously is top tier of religious system as regards submitting to God .
I know I could not live standard of a true Muslim

My twin sister converted to Islam so I know what you mean.

 

[Shia Islam]

The news is not where you learn Islam..
Islam allowed both the Jews and the Christians to have their own places of worship within the Islamic nation...This happened since more than 1400 years back...Just try thinking deeply about this fact to realize how great is Islam.