I was with you, up until this point.
Actually, no, Israel ISN'T pretty resistant to God's plans.
Unsurprising
You realize that the various books of the Prophets cover hundreds of years of history. If the only snags in the road are the ones listed in the Prophets, then Israel (and Judea) were pretty darn good for most of the time.
The problem is that you are focusing on the complaints God had against the Jews are simply a small sampling of a horrible, rebellious people who just don't know when to stop. Jews, in general, focus on the complaints that God had against the Jews as a few bad moments of a generally good, obedient population.
In Jewish exegesis, we learn that there were over 2 million prophets (both men and women) who were sent to the Jews in both Israel and Judea between the times of Moses and Malachi. The only ones we have as canon were ones that had messages that last through the ages. There are messages of warning and rebuke, but there is also discussion of love, and forgiveness, and hope.
The entirety of your holy text is Israel going to and fro between obedience and disobedience. It's a theme. How you can argue against it is interesting, but not surprising I guess.
Sure, you can tell yourself we were "pretty good" overall. That'd just be you telling yourself that. That's not the impression one would get from God, by any means. But why do you feel the need to point this out? Proverbs 3:12. Deuteronomy 7:6-8. Just off the top of my head... there's much more scripture about God loving you, discipline is a good thing.
But don't be crazy enough to sit there and say "no! we're pretty good!" No, no you aren't. Where's your temple?
As for your 2 million prophets, I don't care. If they aren't important enough to be in the Tanakh, they aren't important enough to hear about. Keep it simple. If you can't show it to me in the Tanakh, don't mention it.
You would.
You, like most Christians who try to "rebuke" Jews for "not falling in line" seem to forget that the messages given in the Prophets were not just rebuke and warning, but also praise for staying the course. But this is always forgotten, in an effort to convince Jews that "we are ignoring what is in front of us."
I wasn't rebuking you, why so sensitive? Show me where I rebuked you in that post? I gave you my opinion, my impression. I was careful to make it clear it was just my opinion. So, if you feel rebuked, that's on you.
Like I said, we will see who is right. In the meantime, do whatever works for you. That's what I was saying. If you're having issues in your heart about that, pray for guidance. Don't take it out on me for just saying my opinion on why I don't think we're talking about a different God.
You also seem to forget that Jews were given specific instructions for deciphering who are true prophets and who are false prophets, regardless of our success rate of following their advice. You poke at the ones that show that the Jews were very rebellious, and make that your model for how Jews operate over the course of history while ignoring wherever Jews are praised as being faithful, and successful in following the Torah.
I poke at nothing. I poked at nothing. I didn't say anything specific. If you can argue that the Tanakh doesn't demonstrate a to and fro struggle between obedience and disobedience, then perhaps we're not reading the same book. It's pretty clear to me. Major prophet, minor prophets, etc, all portray this. The text is designed this way for a reason.
Again, I don't care about your oral tradition or non-biblical sages or scholars or people who aren't in the Word of God. They aren't in there for a reason.
Yup. Both the bad AND the good, that you won't ever acknowledge.
I'm a Christian, try to hear me out here. I'm no better than the Israelites of old, you, rosends, metis, modern Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, other Christians, or anyone else. The main tenets of my faith are the OPPOSITE of whatever you think I implied. People mess up. If we didn't mess up and we could all easily follow God, then would we even be talking? Would the Tanakh even exist?
Israel has gone back and forth through her history in obedience and disobedience. I acknowledge there are up times, absolutely. But I also acknowledge there are down times where that is concerned. It's not like I said this was an Israel-only condition and no one else suffers or struggles in this. How can you think that's what I meant? Humans do this. *I* do this. Show me a human who doesn't?
God used Israel to teach the world. I can see that as a mixed blessing in some ways, but overall, it is indeed a blessing. If you think me pointing out Israel specifically was somehow to defame her, it wasn't. Obviously, Israel is the people shown in the Bible whom God loves and disciplines. It's a matter of subject, topic, noun... far more so than it was me somehow implying Israel is any more faulty than any other group of people. Shall we talk of the Amalekites, or the Canaanites? Babylon, or Rome?
Please lighten up. The last thing I meant with my post was to rouse anyone's high horse or isolate Israel in some fashion. You obviously hold presuppositions about Christians. I don't blame you. Many people do these days. Heck, even I do at times.
Try to give me the benefit of the doubt at times, and I will earnestly try to do the same.
