How in the world can ANYBODY think the Jews and Christians have the same god, that Jesus is messiah?

[1137]

I'm literally just straight curious. Not only is this a belief, it's a common one despite the two deities being inherently contradictory in nature and Jesus fulfilling little to NONE of the messianic prophesy. Not to mention the whole idea of Christ contradicts Judaism, and Christianity has blatantly perverted the Hebrew texts. If the deities are suppose to be the same, as Christianity seems to believe, as in they worship the Hebrew god, isn't the religion absolute pure blasphemy?

 

[Koldo]

Have you forgotten the origins of christianity?

 

[Sha'irullah]

Have you forgotten the origins of christianity?

Have you forgotten about the departure of Christianity?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Great point with the messianic prophecies not being fulfilled.

Other than that, it's always possible that during the transition between the OT and the NT God met Dr. Phil and had a huge change of heart about... well... everything.

 

[Desert Snake]

I'm literally just straight curious. Not only is this a belief, it's a common one despite the two deities being inherently contradictory in nature and Jesus fulfilling little to NONE of the messianic prophesy. Not to mention the whole idea of Christ contradicts Judaism, and Christianity has blatantly perverted the Hebrew texts. If the deities are suppose to be the same, as Christianity seems to believe, as in they worship the Hebrew god, isn't the religion absolute pure blasphemy?

Sort of. True.. I guess.
Xians believe that Jesus did fulfill the messianic prophecy.
So..?
No.. it's a different religion.

 

[Koldo]

Have you forgotten about the departure of Christianity?

Are you from the future? Can you tell me at what year christianity departed? And more importantly: can you tell me the numbers for the lotto ?

 

[jeager106]

I'm literally just straight curious. Not only is this a belief, it's a common one despite the two deities being inherently contradictory in nature and Jesus fulfilling little to NONE of the messianic prophesy. Not to mention the whole idea of Christ contradicts Judaism, and Christianity has blatantly perverted the Hebrew texts. If the deities are suppose to be the same, as Christianity seems to believe, as in they worship the Hebrew god, isn't the religion absolute pure blasphemy?

"The 2 dieties being inherently contradictory in nature"

Explain please?
How has Christianity blatantly perverted the Hebrew texts?
"isn't the religion absolute pure blasphmey?" you ask.
Please tell me what about the Christian religion is blasphemy?
Perhaps you are just expressing emotions of some sort w/o anything to back up the emotional outcry?

 

[Nietzsche]

Are you from the future? Can you tell me at what year christianity departed? And more importantly: can you tell me the numbers for the lotto ?

When they claimed the Messiah was some dude not named Emanuel, didn't slay Leviathan, didn't raise the Kingdom of Israel into Heaven..

 

[columbus]

"The 2 dieties being inherently contradictory in nature"

Explain please?
How has Christianity blatantly perverted the Hebrew texts?
"isn't the religion absolute pure blasphmey?" you ask.
Please tell me what about the Christian religion is blasphemy?

It excruciatingly obvious to most people. Starting with the biggy, trinitarianism. The god of Abraham and Moses was no polytheistic trinity. The 1st Commandment was very clear about inventing new gods.

This is the why Christianity is a heresy to Jewish people, even when they are too kind to say so.

Tom

 

[1137]

"The 2 dieties being inherently contradictory in nature"

Explain please?

For example, the Christian god is all about love, forgiveness, joy, light, and so on, the Hebrew God has no such duality. In Christianity the whole of power consists of God and Satan, even if to a (supposedly) unequal degree. In Judaism, God is the creator of both light and dark, forgiving and vengeful, loving yet severe. The very core of their nature differs, and therefore the must be different entities.

ow has Christianity blatantly perverted the Hebrew texts?

The greatest example of this is the conception of Satan between Judaism and Christianity. In Christianity, Satan is essentially The Devil - that is to say the two words mean the same thing. There is no Devil in Judaism, and "Satan" is a title (meaning "adversary") deignating and angel, who in fulfilling orders from God himself, sent to test man's faith.

Another would be the idea that Jesus is a demigod, which is definitely not an option in Judaism. Even the Messiah is of human parents.

"isn't the religion absolute pure blasphmey?" you ask.
Please tell me what about the Christian religion is blasphemy?

A random guy came in, said he was god, twisted God's word to fit his own needs, said the "old" word of God was meaningless, and proceeded to call himself the Messiah. I can't imagine something much more blasphemous from a Jewish perspective.

Perhaps you are just expressing emotions of some sort w/o anything to back up the emotional outcry?

Seems pretty damn well reasoned to me. Maybe actually wait to have your questions answered before putting your foot in your mouth?

 

[Koldo]

When they claimed the Messiah was some dude not named Emanuel, didn't slay Leviathan, didn't raise the Kingdom of Israel into Heaven..

Do you mean 'departed' as in departed from judaism ?
Isn't that kind of the point behind calling it christianity rather than judaism ?

 

[George-ananda]

I think they can be said to have the same God. It's just that the thinking evolves as mankind advances. Jesus attempted to provide an upgraded view of the same God the Jews had been following for centuries. The OP thinking wants to set/fix God with the views of religious writers at a set place in time. I'm saying thinking Jews and Christians evolve their understanding by considering modern thinking on the God concept. Why should their beliefs be set in stone by ancient scriptures.

 

[1137]

I think they can be said to have the same God. It's just that the thinking evolves as mankind advances. Jesus attempted to provide an upgraded view of the same God the Jews had been following for centuries. The OP thinking wants to set/fix God with the views of religious writers at a set place in time. I'm saying thinking Jews and Christians evolve their understanding by considering modern thinking on the God concept. Why should their beliefs be set in stone by ancient scriptures.

We aren't discussing god concepts, we are discussing theoretical actual deities within specific religious contexts.

 

[George-ananda]

We aren't discussing god concepts, we are discussing theoretical actual deities within specific religious contexts.

Yes, a deity that no finite mind can really grasp. So we think of the deity's attributes through concepts. And these concepts are imperfect and evolve.

 

[Desert Snake]

We aren't discussing god concepts, we are discussing theoretical actual deities within specific religious contexts.

Oh, I thought we were discussing the nature of how jesus is JHVH via the Spirit, or JHVH as Deity, as a manifestation of the Godhead. As opposed to 'Yahweh', of Jewish belief, without the 'man form' entity or manifestation; because in Judaism there is no man form Deity, there can't be, observed by people.

 

[Thana]

I'm literally just straight curious. Not only is this a belief, it's a common one despite the two deities being inherently contradictory in nature and Jesus fulfilling little to NONE of the messianic prophesy. Not to mention the whole idea of Christ contradicts Judaism, and Christianity has blatantly perverted the Hebrew texts. If the deities are suppose to be the same, as Christianity seems to believe, as in they worship the Hebrew god, isn't the religion absolute pure blasphemy?

Well, I think a lot believe that Jesus is coming back to fulfill the prophecies, Which is consistent since many prophecies have been demonstrated to have a dual fulfillment, that is, fulfilled in part now and completely fulfilled in the future.

As to the perversion of Hebrew texts, How so? I believe all they've done is translate them, And yes a lot has gotten lost in translation but that's not intentional and I certainly wouldn't call it a perversion.

Perhaps to a Jew, Christianity may seem blasphemous but then, To a Christian, The Jews are once again rejecting God and following themselves. Either way, We don't have the best opinion of each other but yes, we do have the same God.

 

[Desert Snake]

Well, I think a lot believe that Jesus is coming back to fulfill the prophecies, Which is consistent since many prophecies have been demonstrated to have a dual fulfillment, that is, fulfilled in part now and completely fulfilled in the future.

As to the perversion of Hebrew texts, How so? I believe all they've done is translate them, And yes a lot has gotten lost in translation but that's not intentional and I certainly wouldn't call it a perversion.

Perhaps to a Jew, Christianity may seem blasphemous but then, To a Christian, The Jews are once again rejecting God and following themselves. Either way, We don't have the best opinion of each other but yes, we do have the same God.

How can it be the 'same' god when our god manifests in human form, ie Jesus? Judaism says that isn't possible, not to mention the other differences. Clearly not the 'same' deity.

 

[Desert Snake]

Excuse me, my God. I believe Jesus to be God.

 

[Thana]

How can it be the 'same' god when our god manifests in human form, ie Jesus? Judaism says that isn't possible, not to mention the other differences. Clearly not the 'same' deity.

Because even Trinitarians don't really understand the mechanics of the Trinity, So I doubt the Jews understand it any better, let alone be able to deny it's possibility.
Besides, not all Christians are Trinitarians anyway.

Jesus was human. He is not human anymore.

 

[1137]

Yes, a deity that no finite mind can really grasp. So we think of the deity's attributes through concepts. And these concepts are imperfect and evolve.

And that'd great, but the two deities are inherently different. This "evolution" would be the equivalent of humans suddenly coming out as gigantic, mothlike creatures.