How in the world can ANYBODY think the Jews and Christians have the same god, that Jesus is messiah?

[Terrywoodenpic]

Of course Jews and Christians have the same God
They just have different spin doctors.

 

[Tumah]

Of course Jews and Christians have the same God
They just have different spin doctors.

I don't know how you can rationalize such a statement given the huge disparity between the Jewish G-d and the Christian one.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I don't know how you can rationalize such a statement given the huge disparity between the Jewish G-d and the Christian one.

Same God.
They just attribute different aspects and deeds to him, to suit their own beliefs history and life styles.

 

[Tumah]

Same God.
They just attribute different aspects and deeds to him, to suit their own beliefs history and life styles.

That's like saying Michael [Jackson] and Michael [Jordan] are the same person. Just some people call him a basketball player and some people call him a singer. I mean, they're both black and have the same first name so they must be the same person.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

That's like saying Michael [Jackson] and Michael [Jordan] are the same person. Just some people call him a basketball player and some people call him a singer. I mean, they're both black and have the same first name so they must be the same person.

Not at all, it is more like two people seeing some one and implanting their own prejudices on to how they regard them.

 

[Akivah]

Not at all, it is more like two people seeing some one and implanting their own prejudices on to how they regard them.

That's pretty much the whole point. The Christians saw a person and claimed that it is a god. The Jews have never called any person a god.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

That's pretty much the whole point. The Christians saw a person and claimed that it is a god. The Jews have never called any person a god.

No one who ever saw Jesus said he was God.
However it was only Jews who became the first Christians.
They thought he was the son of God.
It was much later that Christians came to the conclusion that that Jesus was God.
To maintain the conceit that there was only one God they invented the concept of the trinity.

At no time did the God that they had always worshiped change. It was only their concept of him that had changed.

 

[Desert Snake]

No one who ever saw Jesus said he was God.
However it was only Jews who became the first Christians.
They thought he was the son of God.
It was much later that Christians came to the conclusion that that Jesus was God.
To maintain the conceit that there was only one God they invented the concept of the trinity.

At no time did the God that they had always worshiped change. It was only their concept of him that had changed.

What an interesting piece of fiction.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

I'm literally just straight curious. Not only is this a belief, it's a common one despite the two deities being inherently contradictory in nature and Jesus fulfilling little to NONE of the messianic prophesy. Not to mention the whole idea of Christ contradicts Judaism, and Christianity has blatantly perverted the Hebrew texts. If the deities are suppose to be the same, as Christianity seems to believe, as in they worship the Hebrew god, isn't the religion absolute pure blasphemy?

Jesus is not exactly "God". He is the son of God.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

What an interesting piece of fiction.

Not fiction Just a potted version of the history.

 

[columbus]

When I look around myself at the world I see a great many Christians. From the excellent "Peace and Justice" committee of my local church to Westboro Baptist Church. From Pope Francis to Roy Moore.
I see little resemblance between all these and many other Christian gods. I don't think that Christians all have the same God, much less the same god as Jews and Muslims.
Tom

 

[Tumah]

Not at all, it is more like two people seeing some one and implanting their own prejudices on to how they regard them.

Its exactly the same because the difference between how Jews see G-d and how Christians do is massive. I'd go so far as to say its as great as the difference between the Christians view and the Greeks.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

Westboro Baptist Church

Some of the people in that church are insane.

 

[Desert Snake]

Not fiction Just a potted version of the history.

non-Roman Christianity have a Deific Jesus, //manifestation of JHVH, /via the Spirit.

Europeans didn't invent Christianity.

 

[firedragon]

Has anyone read Marcion of Sinope?

He had the same dilemma of reconciling the two personalities of God. The God of Jesus and the God of the old testament. Thus he concluded that there are two Gods.

But Jesus quotes Moses verbatim in the famous Shema. Lord is one. And Jesus calls him Eli, which is used in the old testament. It is the one God that both books speak of.

The difference is that the old testament is full of books that have a personality of revelation. A narration of a story. The New Testament has many books which are epistles or letters one person sends to another. Thus, the personality is more preaching and pacifying. Very different from the OT.

It is the personality of the writers that differ. Thus, the message seems different. God seems different.

 

[firedragon]

non-Roman Christianity have a Deific Jesus, //manifestation of JHVH, /via the Spirit.

Europeans didn't invent Christianity.

Who do you think invented Christianity?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

non-Roman Christianity have a Deific Jesus, //manifestation of JHVH, /via the Spirit.

Europeans didn't invent Christianity.

Of course Europeans did not invent Christianity.
I was referring to the early Christianity of the Didache long before Christianity was Romanised.
However even those Jewish-Gentile communities referred to the Father, the son, and the Holy spirit, long before it was thought of as a "Trinity." they also practised a weekly Eucharist as a communal meal at the start of the shabbat.
But they worshipped God alone. They had no doubt that it was the same God that they had always worshipped.

 

[Tumah]

Of course Europeans did not invent Christianity.
I was referring to the early Christianity of the Didache long before Christianity was Romanised.
However even those Jewish-Gentile communities referred to the Father, the son, and the Holy spirit, long before it was thought of as a "Trinity." they also practised a weekly Eucharist as a communal meal at the start of the shabbat.
But they worshipped God alone. They had no doubt that it was the same God that they had always worshipped.

That's a very weak proof in my opinion. You don't know anything about those Jews. Were they Jews from the ignorant masses who enjoyed the speeches of a charismatic leader? Were they apostate Jews, looking to appease their conscience? There's plenty of possibilities to explain why early Jews defected to Christianity without assuming that they saw G-d as the same they had always been serving.

 

[firedragon]

Of course Europeans did not invent Christianity.
I was referring to the early Christianity of the Didache long before Christianity was Romanised.
However even those Jewish-Gentile communities referred to the Father, the son, and the Holy spirit, long before it was thought of as a "Trinity." they also practised a weekly Eucharist as a communal meal at the start of the shabbat.
But they worshipped God alone. They had no doubt that it was the same God that they had always worshipped.

Of course.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

That's a very weak proof in my opinion. You don't know anything about those Jews. Were they Jews from the ignorant masses who enjoyed the speeches of a charismatic leader? Were they apostate Jews, looking to appease their conscience? There's plenty of possibilities to explain why early Jews defected to Christianity without assuming that they saw G-d as the same they had always been serving.

Have you read the Didache?

The book written by Aaron Milavec gives the original text, Translation, analysis, and Commentary.
And answers all of the doubts you raise. and is probably the most respected of the works on the subject.

I have taken upon myself to give a copy to all new clergy that come to our church. Some like it, some believe what it says, and some are somewhat shocked that they had never heard about it before.