What makes the christian god the 'true god'?

[InChrist]

Implying that Chrstianity is the only religion gaining followers..
You should get our more, to be honest!

No, I'm not implying that at all. As I previously said, I'm just saying that one is not necessarily bound by the religion or culture of their birth place. I am aware this can apply to people also becoming followers of other religions, but this thread was in reference to Christianity so I was addressing those who have specifically placed their faith in Christ.

 

[Ingledsva]

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There is absolutely no proof for any of the magic and myth in the Bible.

I can agree with this to a certain degree because I don't think there is any magic or myth in the Bible at all. As far as the supernatural events which are recorded there were plenty of eyewitnesses, including many hostile contemporaries, who could have very easily discredited accounts, such as the resurrection of Jesus Christ, from ever surviving, being circulated or passed down, if such an event did not actually take place.

You folks have no proof of the events, - or any eye-witnesses.

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[Renji]

The Christian God is the God of the Hebrew Scriptures..iow, the Jewish God.

His name is YHWH/ Yahweh (or Jehovah in english) and he proved himself the true God on many occasions in the ancient past. People have worshiped a plethora of different gods, but none of those gods every showed themselves to their followers. They were unable to provide protection to their followers and when called upon, they never showed themselves.The God of the Hebrews was different. He was a God who did show himself, he revealed his purpose and he provided protection to those who worshiped him.

But those who worship other gods also claim of protection, power, prosperity, etc through their gods as well.

The accounts in the bible show his many saving acts and it also records his communications with man.

So does the accounts from other mythologies.

And what i find interesting is that many gods of the nations most often require acts of immorality from their adherents. For example sex worship was very common among the pagan religions, they held sacred orgies and some gods required married women to prostitute themselves at least once a the temples. , Jehovah on the other hand required absolute justice, holiness and righteousness from his adherents.That is a very unique feature of the worship of Jehovah and its something that makes him standout as different to all others.

Okay, so what about numerous accounts in the old testament which required 'god' to kill (both directly or indirectly) human beings? And people (like king David) having concubines and stuff?

 

[Renji]

I have believed in other gods. But Jesus was the only one who made himself known to me.

Okay so what can so say about people who 'experienced' god aside from Jesus?

 

[Pegg]

But those who worship other gods also claim of protection, power, prosperity, etc through their gods as well.

'Yes they do and for that reason the prophets of Jehovah called on the pagan priests to allow their gods to prove themeslves. We have accounts where pagan priests were calling on their gods to consume a sacrifice on an alter and they did so all day long while at the same time cutting themselves (as they do in hindu and other religions) and their gods did not show. But as soon as the prophet of Jehovah called out for the sacrifice to be consumed, fire came down from the sky and consumed the entire sacrifice including the alter.

These interactions between the pagan worshipers and Jehovahs people were recorded so that we may believe that Jehovah is the True God and that the gods of the nations are false gods who do not really exist.
Actually, another good example is that of the account about the Exodus from Egypt. Egypt had many gods they worshiped...they had the sun god, the moon god, river god and gods of the various animals such as the frog, gnat, cow etc. When the 12 plagues were brought on the Egyptians, each plague was designed to show that the Egyptian gods were not real. Their river god was not able to protect itself from the plague which turned the nile river to blood. The Egyptian sun god was not able to prevent the darkness which covered the land of the Egyptians and blotted out the sun. The Egyptian cow god was not able to prevent the plague of hail from killing all the sacred cows. And the Egyptians worshiped their Pharaoh as a god too... and he was not able to prevent his firstborn (also beleived to be a god) from being put to death by Jehovah.

Jehovah was showing those pagan worshipers that it is he who is the creator of all things...the animals and the world around them was created by Jehovah and he was showing himself to be the Almighty and the Only True God in the earth and the things that people were worshiping were not gods.

Okay, so what about numerous accounts in the old testament which required 'god' to kill (both directly or indirectly) human beings? And people (like king David) having concubines and stuff?

God is the one who makes humans live.... his spirit is what brings them to life. Do you think he is obligated to keep us living???
Does he owe us anything???

Obviously he doesnt owe us life... its a gift and its a gift that he alone has the right to take away.

As for the sins of man, they do not change the fact that Jehovah is the Almighty and that we are accountable to him. David had concubines, yes. But that was against the law of God which stated that the kings of Isreal were not to 'multiply wives for themselves'

So God has his laws, and man break his laws. This happens, but it does not change the fact that Jehovah is the true God and the one to whom we are held accountable for our actions.

 

[Renji]

'Yes they do and for that reason the prophets of Jehovah called on the pagan priests to allow their gods to prove themeslves. We have accounts where pagan priests were calling on their gods to consume a sacrifice on an alter and they did so all day long while at the same time cutting themselves (as they do in hindu and other religions) and their gods did not show. But as soon as the prophet of Jehovah called out for the sacrifice to be consumed, fire came down from the sky and consumed the entire sacrifice including the alter.

These interactions between the pagan worshipers and Jehovahs people were recorded so that we may believe that Jehovah is the True God and that the gods of the nations are false gods who do not really exist.
Actually, another good example is that of the account about the Exodus from Egypt. Egypt had many gods they worshiped...they had the sun god, the moon god, river god and gods of the various animals such as the frog, gnat, cow etc. When the 12 plagues were brought on the Egyptians, each plague was designed to show that the Egyptian gods were not real. Their river god was not able to protect itself from the plague which turned the nile river to blood. The Egyptian sun god was not able to prevent the darkness which covered the land of the Egyptians and blotted out the sun. The Egyptian cow god was not able to prevent the plague of hail from killing all the sacred cows. And the Egyptians worshiped their Pharaoh as a god too... and he was not able to prevent his firstborn (also beleived to be a god) from being put to death by Jehovah.

Jehovah showed himself to be the Almighty and the Only True God in the earth. The things that people worship are not gods.

Okay, so aside from the scriptures, is there a way to validate such claim? A person can just make claims and put it in writing and believe in it without even having solid backings to support it.

'God is the one who makes humans live.... his spirit is what brings them to life. Do you think he is obligated to keep us living???
Does he owe us anything???

Obviously he doesnt owe us life... its a gift and its a gift that he alone has the right to take away.

So it's actually 'moral' to have such beliefs?

As for the sins of man, they do not change the fact that Jehovah is the Almighty and that we are accountable to him. David had concubines, yes. But that was against the law of God which stated that the kings of Isreal were not to 'multiply wives for themselves'

So God has his laws, and man break his laws. This happens, but it does not change the fact that Jehovah is the true God and the one to whom we are held accountable for our actions.

And he did allow it to happen in spite of him requiring 'absolute justice, holiness and righteousness from his adherents'?

 

[Pegg]

Okay, so aside from the scriptures, is there a way to validate such claim? A person can just make claims and put it in writing and believe in it without even having solid backings to support it.

thats true, people can make claims and what we read in the bible was written thousands of years ago.

So obviously there needs to be something more substantial then the claim itself. And there is.

By examining prophecy we can determine if what has been written is truthful. Prophecy can only come from God, so any prophet who's prophecies are historically true and accurate gives credence to his writings.

So it's actually 'moral' to have such beliefs?

.
Is it moral to believe that God has the right to take away life?


Well the question is not a moral one but a matter of fact. God has told us what he requires of us, its up to us to live up to it...otherwise we could ask if its moral for us to take something that does not belong to us? What do you think?

And he did allow it to happen in spite of him requiring 'absolute justice, holiness and righteousness from his adherents'?

He has given mankind free will. He is not a dictator, nor does he force obedience on us. He respects free will.... unfortunately we dont respect it enough to act responsibly.

But just think how incredible it is that God has not wiped us out completely due to our lack of appreciation for what he has given us. People like Hitler and others tried to wipe out entire races just because they didnt like them.... yet here is the Almighty Creator who is continually being ridiculed and treated with such disrespect, yet he does not wipe us out...it would be as simple as blowing away a bit of dust. He is truly amazing and worth getting to know.

 

[Renji]

thats true, people can make claims and what we read in the bible was written thousands of years ago.

So obviously there needs to be something more substantial then the claim itself. And there is.

By examining prophecy we can determine if what has been written is truthful. Prophecy can only come from God, so any prophet who's prophecies are historically true and accurate gives credence to his writings.

Perhaps you can give a 'prophecy' that you are talking about.

Is it moral to believe that God has the right to take away life?


Well the question is not a moral one but a matter of fact. God has told us what he requires of us, its up to us to live up to it...otherwise we could ask if its moral for us to take something that does not belong to us? What do you think?

Well, I am not pertaining to this actually. I'm pertaining to the fact that on the scripture, 'god' has taken away many lives in order to 'put correction' to 'evil' things or to save some. Do you think it's 'moral' to believe such or to make use of such claims as a standard of morality? How can such situations be 'morally upright' compared to those who do not believe in the Judeo-christian gods, whom you say adheres to 'immoral acts' ?

He has given mankind free will. He is not a dictator, nor does he force obedience on us. He respects free will.... unfortunately we dont respect it enough to act responsibly.

But just think how incredible it is that God has not wiped us out completely due to our lack of appreciation for what he has given us. People like Hitler and others tried to wipe out entire races just because they didnt like them.... yet here is the Almighty Creator who is continually being ridiculed and treated with such disrespect, yet he does not wipe us out...it would be as simple as blowing away a bit of dust. He is truly amazing and worth getting to know.

And send people to a place such as hell for 'disobedience'. Pretty amazing how 'free will' works huh?

 

[gsa]

No, I'm not implying that at all. As I previously said, I'm just saying that one is not necessarily bound by the religion or culture of their birth place. I am aware this can apply to people also becoming followers of other religions, but this thread was in reference to Christianity so I was addressing those who have specifically placed their faith in Christ.

So what does this kind of conversion demonstrate then? You originally claimed that one is not necessarily bound by the religious context of their birth place, but it is easy enough to concede that while acknowledging that one's geography and language are largely outcome determinative. In other words, geography is the best predictor of one's religious choices.

Your rebuttal suggests that there is some kind of transformative effect when one converts to Christianity. I'm not sure if that is empirically demonstrable or not, but I'd also offer the following thoughts: conversion is also highly dependent on geography, but in a very different way. Few people born in Saudi Arabia will convert to Christianity as a result of the laws in place thee, and restrictions on access for Christian missionaries. This observation simply reinforces the predictor argument.

To me, the most interesting conversion cases are the outliers. Westerners who convert to fundamentalist Islam, for example. In almost every case, those people are also psychological outliers. But it is also the case that geography plays a powerful role even there. It is entirely plausible that those same people might become attracted to Jainism, but for the fact that there are few Jains and a comparatively larger sample of (convert seeking) Muslims, or might become Orthodox Jews but for the fact that the Orthodox do not seek converts and are also geographically isolated.

Anyway, the example of conversion does not refute the empirical reality of geography as a predictor. And in most cases, the example of converts reinforces it.

 

[Pegg]

Perhaps you can give a 'prophecy' that you are talking about.

I could, but its a huge subject and providing one prophecy and its fulfillment is not going to cut it for you. But its certainly a line of evidence that is intriging and well worth looking into.

Well, I am not pertaining to this actually. I'm pertaining to the fact that on the scripture, 'god' has taken away many lives in order to 'put correction' to 'evil' things or to save some. Do you think it's 'moral' to believe such or to make use of such claims as a standard of morality? How can such situations be 'morally upright' compared to those who do not believe in the Judeo-christian gods, whom you say adheres to 'immoral acts' ?

The scriptures tell us that God is a 'lover of justice' and at times he has used his mighty force to bring about justice. Do I think that is moral? Yes of course. We understand justice very well and our own governments have their own ways of enforcing justice and when we see justice done, we feel good about it.

So when i read accounts about God bringing justice upon the wicked, yes i feel very good about it.

And send people to a place such as hell for 'disobedience'. Pretty amazing how 'free will' works huh?

believe it or not, but its not the bible or God who has such a place as hell for the wicked. Hell is a place described by pagan religions and it describes the torment and suffering to be inflicted on the wicked.

The bible has no such place and Jehovah God has no such desire to do anything of the like to anyone. The bible tells us that the only place we go to when we die is the grave (hell) ... its meaning in scripture is very clear. It is the place we are buried when we die...thats our final destination. This is another reason why God hates false religion... it spreads lies and fear among mankind.

 

[nazz]

Okay so what can so say about people who 'experienced' god aside from Jesus?

Not much since I have not experienced what they have.

 

[Adstar]

The Hebrew Messiah was not supposed to be sacrificed.

Human Sacrifice became against YHVH's Law.

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Yes. But Jesus was more then just a human

 

[Adstar]

So does that make other gods lesser or no sense at all?
Can't he think of other solutions or perhaps just forgive the people from it?

If other gods allow imperfection in eternity then they are not Gods. God is perfect. If one believes in an imperfect god then they don't believe in a God. Other religions do have truths in them. Some have many truths. But if a lie is wrapped up in a 1000 truths it is still at lie. It is imperfect. 99.99% is not perfection.

And since you've brought this up, why would a god, who is all powerful, all knowing and stuff allow himself (or his son, whatever) to be sacrificed in order to save humanity from the thing he is displeased (aka sin)?

God is perfect, so all sin being imperfect must never be tolerated in His perfect Eternity. Therefore all sinners must be cast out and rejected if pure Justice is to reign.. But... If God cares for His creation He will go to extremes to see pure justice done in a way that His now faulty creation can be Redeemed from the price of sin, which is death.. So God himself comes into His creation in human form so suffer death in our place and because His death is the death of a perfect sinless being it pays the price for the transgressions of many imperfect beings.

Can't he think of other solutions or perhaps just forgive the people from it?

Not when the Heavenly Host is looking on to see if God willt compromise His perfect standards. Not when lucifer / satan who sabotaged Gods creation is trying to show that God is imperfect to justify his claim that God does not have exclusive claim to Godhood. You know satan wants to be like the Most High and leads Angels who like wise want to be gods... What did Lucifer use to entice Adam and Eve? Do you remember?

Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

 

[Hawkins]

Alright, first of all, I am not condemning any religion or group of people by asking this. But I just want to know, from the christians of this forum, what makes you believe in what you believe in? What makes you believe in the christian god and not believe in other gods (like Thor, Zeus, etc). And for those who are going to quote from the scriptures (the bible, dogmas, etc), what makes such scripture above anything else/worth believing for? Thanks.

Humans rely mostly and heavily on human witnessing to get to a truth of any kind. Christianity is the only religion explicitly employed human witnessing for humans to get to a claimed truth.

Human witnessing is the most fundamental way for humans to get to a truth. Humans get to a truth by putting faith on a small group of humans (witnesses) who are believed to be the closest to the truth itself.

Even science goes this way. You don't examine the existence of black holes. You rely on what is claimed by the scientists to get to this truth. Scientists are the small group of humans (witnesses) who are believed to be the closest to the type of truth such as the existence of black holes.

A multiple account human witnessing with the direct witnesses martyred themselves is already the most can and should be done. All left is for you to put your faith to get to the truth, the similar faith you already put to the scientists to get to the truth that black holes do exists. It is the similar faith you put to the reporters (small group of humans forming the media) to get to any truth occurred in this world on a daily basis. it is the similar faith you put to get to any human history (history = his story, is composed of human witnessing about historical events and figures).

The last kind of truth which can only be reached by witnessing is the truth unreachable by humans within a certain time frame. For example, the stone age humans had no chance to get to the truth that black holes exist. However, if you are sent back to stone age, you can "preach" this truth to the stone age humans. They can reach such a truth by putting faith on you. If the existence of black holes does concerns their lives, then you can well say to them that "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one gets to the truth of black holes except through me."

To put it another way, if a god is true and what he claimed concern humans and he cares, then he should urge his witnesses to try to spread the message as wide as possible for people to reach such a truth via believing in witnessing.

The only better way than this is to show himself up in front of everyone such that everyone knows he's god. However, in the case of Christianity this will violate the covenant granted by the Christian God, which says that humans need faith to be saved.

 

[metis]

Humans rely mostly and heavily on human witnessing to get to a truth of any kind. Christianity is the only religion explicitly employed human witnessing for humans to get to a claimed truth.

Thanks actually not true as every religion that I have ever studied as an anthropologist makes similar claims.

 

[Hawkins]

Thanks actually not true as every religion that I have ever studied as an anthropologist makes similar claims.

Which religion ever explicitly call a small group of humans as God's witnesses, and achieved a multiple account witnessing of God?

In modern days, we have video and such to make a witnessing more valid and believable. What about in ancient times? Martyrdom does the trick. So which religion's claimed witnessing is backed up by martyrdom?

Moreover, if other religions are true and their gods do care about humans, they should pursuit the same "gospel preaching" (bear witnessing) such that humans can be informed of their truth via the most fundamental way of approaching a truth, that is, human witnessing.

Name an example with an explicit claim similar to this,


Acts 1:8
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

 

[metis]

Which religion ever explicitly call a small group of humans as God's witnesses, and achieved a multiple account witnessing of God?...

In one way or another, every single one. Do you honestly believe that they just state that they invent their religion out of thin air?

 

[Nada]

"a multiple account witnessing to God?" What?

 

[metis]

"a multiple account witnessing to God?" What?

And also Gods.

 

[neologist]

What makes the christian god the 'true god'?

If our first parents had not sinned, they would still be alive and we would have no war or crime or sickness or death. In Genesis 3:15, the Christian God promised a redemption eventually provided by Jesus. In the intervening years and bible accounts, all of God's pronouncements and prophecies have come true except those designated for our day.

So, what makes the Christian god the 'true god'? 6000 years of truth.