Is Hamas Being Delusional?

[FearGod]

As Netanyahu stated...

If Israel laid down all it's arms, Israel would be annihilated.

If the arabs laid down all their arms there would be peace.

The problem is that the arabs want the jews DEAD. Therefore, there is no one to negotiate with when only one side wants peace.

That is a stupid thing to say.

Jews lived with the Muslims in the Islamic world in full peace,in Palestine,in Iran,in Egypt and everywhere without any problems.

The golden age of Jews started with the Islamic empire in the Andalusia.

 

[Looncall]

That is silly and can be only the opinion of a coward.

Now USA is much stronger than Canada, does that mean that Canada should live under the mercy of USA if in a case that the US asked Canada to be an armless country.

The problem is that Palestinians keep attacking Israel, even when it is utterly futile. Abandoning useless resistance and arranging peace would not be cowardly, it would be sane.

Posts like yours keep reinforcing my opinion of the basic barbarity of muslim thinking. Do you really think that the proper outcome is Hamas obliging Israel to wipe out the population of Gaza?

The US is not attacking Canada, nor vice versa. We settle disagreements by civilized discussion, not rockets.

 

[FearGod]

So whose authority do you believe you live under, that compels you to prostrate yourself toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol and kaaba in Mecca five times a day, when there is not a stitch of historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed prior to about the 4th century AD?
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru.../167538-mecca-did-not-exist-before-about.html

What that to do with our recent discussion ?

 

[Looncall]

That is a stupid thing to say.

Jews lived with the Muslims in the Islamic world in full peace,in Palestine,in Iran,in Egypt and everywhere without any problems.

The golden age of Jews started with the Islamic empire in the Andalusia.

Who cares what happened long ago? What counts is what is happening now.

 

[FearGod]

The problem is that Palestinians keep attacking Israel, even when it is utterly futile. Abandoning useless resistance and arranging peace would not be cowardly, it would be sane.

Posts like yours keep reinforcing my opinion of the basic barbarity of muslim thinking. Do you really think that the proper outcome is Hamas obliging Israel to wipe out the population of Gaza?

The US is not attacking Canada, nor vice versa. We settle disagreements by civilized discussion, not rockets.

What if USA forbade Canada from having an airport and from having a seaport and not allowed to have weapons, that is slaving dude,if you may accept that to yourself then some people prefer to die than accepting this to happen.

 

[FearGod]

Who cares what happened long ago? What counts is what is happening now.

They are still living in the Islamic states in peace, Jews are living in Iran while Iran is against Israel.

 

[Looncall]

What if USA forbade Canada from having an airport and from having a seaport and not allowed to have weapons, that is slaving dude,if you may accept that to yourself then some people prefer to die than accepting this to happen.

But, in the Gaza case, those things would not be needed if the Gazans behaved peacefully. The Gazans' troubles are self-inflicted.

 

[FearGod]

But, in the Gaza case, those things would not be needed if the Gazans behaved peacefully. The Gazans' troubles are self-inflicted.

You mean if they accepted to be slaved.

 

[Alceste]

But, in the Gaza case, those things would not be needed if the Gazans behaved peacefully. The Gazans' troubles are self-inflicted.

Really?

 

[icehorse]

Earlier the claim was made that it's only Islamic extremists that are persecuting Christians.

My understanding is that throughout the ME and northern Africa, Muslim-majority countries are systematically pushing out non-Muslims (often violently).

Why on earth would we think that Israel can relax?

 

[FearGod]

You mean they weren't slaughtered as long as Muhammad's followers could subjugate them to second class status in dhimmitude, and parasitize them through the jizya tax.

Golden age under Islam?!! Gwaffaw! Jews are to Islam today, just as they were in Muhammad's day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=viOfDdkonu8

JESUS OR MUHAMMAD
Qur'an Surah 33:26 Allah took down the People of the Scripture Book. He cast terror into their hearts. Some you slew, and some you made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, giving you a land which you had not traversed before. And Allah has power over all things.

Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."

Abu Dawud 38:4390 Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi: I was among the captives of Banu Qurayza. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

Tabari VIII:40 "The Messenger of God commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence."

Ishaq:465 "Then the Apostle divided the property, wives, and children of the Qurayza among the Muslims. Allah's Messenger took his fifth of the booty. He made known on that day the extra shares for horses and their riders - giving the horse two shares and the rider one. A Muslim without a horse got one share of the spoil. It was the first booty in which lots were cast."

Tabari VIII:38 "The Prophet selected for himself from among the Jewish women of the Qurayza, Rayhanah bt. Amr. She became his concubine. When he predeceased her, she was still in his possession. When the Messenger of Allah took her as a captive, she showed herself averse to Islam and insisted on Judaism."

Bukhari:V5B59N459 Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus."

Ishaq:480 "The Qurayza met their misfortune. In humiliation they found no helper. A calamity worse than that which fell upon the Nadir befell them. On that day Allah's Apostle came to them like a brilliant moon. We left them with blood upon them like a pool. They lay prostrate with the vultures circling round."

Ishaq:204/ Tabari VI:134 "'Men of the Khazraj, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man.' 'Yes,' they answered. 'In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging ourselves to wage war against all mankind.'"

Ishaq:472 "Muhammad's Companions are the best in war."

Ishaq:475 "Allah commanded that horses should be kept for His enemy in the fight so they might vex them. We obeyed our Prophet's orders when he called us to war. When he called for violent efforts we made them. The Prophet's command is obeyed for he is truly believed. He will give us victory, glory, and a life of ease. Those who call Muhammad a liar disbelieve and go astray. They attacked our religion and would not submit."

And for these reasons Palestinians shouldn't live in peace.

 

[FearGod]

Earlier the claim was made that it's only Islamic extremists that are persecuting Christians.

My understanding is that throughout the ME and northern Africa, Muslim-majority countries are systematically pushing out non-Muslims (often violently).

Why on earth would we think that Israel can relax?

Thats not the case,absolutely wrong.

Those extremists are killing Muslims as well.

Bashar army in Syria consist of Muslims and Arabs, the Iraqi army consist of Muslims and Arabs, many innocents were killed by these groups which claim that they are an Islamic group.

Don't ever believe politicians, they just fool me and you, except if you are one.

 

[Flankerl]

Really?

Well Israel left in 2005 and the blockade began in 2007.

This is probably not important at all so really just ignore it.

 

[FearGod]

You've got it backwards my friend. It is Islam that has had a 1400 year continuum of slavery. Islam has always been the very antethesis of freedom, liberty and mankind's God-given right to self-determination.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]In regard to actual physical slavery, the Islamic practice of capturing and enslaving Africans (and others) has gone on for 1400 years without interruption in places like the Sudan, and continues unabated, to this day. This is because slavery remains sanctioned by the Quran, and as his follower's example Muhammad himself captured innocents as "booty" of his imperialistic conquest, and enslaved them and traded in slaves to finance his war machine.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Bukhari B34, #432 Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: that while he was sitting with Allah's Apostle he said, "O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?"[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Tabari VIII:39 "Then the Messenger of Allah sent Sa'd bin Zayd with some of the Qurayza captives to Najd, and in exchange for them he purchased horses and arms."[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]From this perspective, we can see why some of Muhammad's followers might view the slavery of dhimmitude, as a privilege! The practice of capturing Africans (and others) and pressing them into slavery, wasn't "officially" abolished in Saudi Arabia and Yemen until 1962, UAE 1963, and Oman not until 1970, but only in response to outside pressure. Yet while supposedly abolished in the UAE for example, consider what life is like for those on whose backs the opulent luxury of Dubai was built, let alone what can happen to a non-Muslim traveler who chooses a Muslim ruled destination like Dubai.[/FONT]

Religious bigotry makes you sick in mind and soul.

 

[FearGod]

Exactly. Like all orthodox Muslims they are called by Muhammad to fight in his alter-ego "Allah's" cause, just like Muhammad did:

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Surah 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an.....[/FONT]
JIHAD AND ISLAMIC TERRORISM

So the Islamic world as a whole shouldn't live in peace.

 

[FearGod]

Muslims have been killing Muslims ever since Muhammad's day. They can't help themselves as they are filled with the spirit of antichrist.

Not true, it is a great sin for a Muslim to kill a Muslim and it is even Great sin to kill any innocent soul regardless of religion.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The golden age of Jews started with the Islamic empire in the Andalusia.

Does it not say in the Koran somewhere that the Christian is the friend of the Jew? How then would the Islamic empire in Andalusia begin the golden age of the Jews? Perhaps USA is the golden age of the Jews, because USA is (or was) Christian. (I don't know if this sounds reasonable to you or not. I'm not sure about the history of Andalusia.) Also, why couldn't 1948 begin the golden age of the Jews?

Christians worship the same God that Jews do. We even share our old covenant/testament books. Some Christians such as myself believe that God blinded some of His faithful people to the Gospel so they couldn't sin against it.
SPIRIT OF SLUMBER

Isaac Newton: “Hence I observe these things, first that the restauration of the Jewish nation so much spoken of by the old Prophets respects not the few Jews who were converted in the Apostles days, but the dispersed nation of the unbelieving Jews to be converted in the end when the fullness of the Gentiles shall enter, that is when the Gospel (upon the fall of Babylon) shall begin to be preached to all nations. Secondly that the prophecies of Isaiah described above by being here cited by the Apostle is limited to respect the time of the future conversion and restitution of the Jewish Nation, and thirdly that the humour which has long reigned among the Christians of boasting our selves against the Jews, and insulting over them for their not believing, is reprehended by the Apostle for high –mindedness and self-conceipt, and much more is our using them despightfully, Pharisaicall and impious”

Since Christians are to "turn the other cheek", it makes me wonder if part of the reason He blinded some Jews to the Gospel, was so He had a more "eye for an eye" remnant crew left, to restore and defend Israel in preparation for His return.
MUHAMMAD AND ISLAM IN BIBLE PROPHECY

Restored to their land just as prophesied.
ZIONISM IN PROPHECY

That is fine I guess, but aren't Christians called to clothe the naked and to feed the hungry? What about spiritual hunger? Their sleep does not justify Christian silence. Your have hinted that you don't see me necessarily as a Christian, and I understand that. I still believe in a way and am faithful, but growing up full of zeal I have seen many Christians just letting the world pass by. It is curious, and it makes one wonder why more people aren't Christians now. Not enough workers in the harvest field is probably why. The majority of the Jews in Israel have never heard the gospel in my humble opinion. It is a place with many disco-teks, lots of drinking and drugs. Lots of people just do whatever they want. There are brothels.

 

[FearGod]

Ignoring facts rather than addressing them, and attacking the messenger instead, will keep you enslaved to the false prophet Muhammad. What about that post is factually in error? Are you saying that Islam does not have a 1400 year history of slavery, and many Islamic nation states did not even "officially" abolish capturing and enslaving Africans until within the last half century?

Do you mean to say that Christianity rejected slavery and it was an Islamic invention ?

What about the Jews saying that Jesus was a liar and son of a whore ?

You are making silly excuses.

 

[FearGod]

Does it not say in the Koran somewhere that the Christian is the friend of the Jew? How then would the Islamic empire in Andalusia begin the golden age of the Jews? Perhaps USA is the golden age of the Jews, because USA is (or was) Christian. (I don't know if this sounds reasonable to you or not. I'm not sure about the history of Andalusia.) Also, why couldn't 1948 begin the golden age of the Jews ?

Today yes they are.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Palestinians are experiencing misery because Hamas is not willing to work toward peace with Israel. That is a brute fact, regardless of how anyone feels about it.

What amazes me is that the general population seems to support that utterly futile violent resistance. If we were in the same boat as they are, I hope we would proceed more rationally.

Then the culprit is Hamas, not the Palestinians as a nation. That fact is irrelevant. I was worrying about the Palestinian population when you quoted me, and I don't stand with Hamas. The thread had "Palestinians" on it before it was edited and I think the OP still has it. All they did was talk whither it is in favor or against Hamas. They are civilians and all they want is the thing I mentioned they were denied. Hamas does not care for them, as I believe you already know providing the fact that Hamas uses populated ares as a battle ground, and don't get any benefit from their support (they are even so poor to give money out).

It's important to note that there is really no such place as a Palestine. The name was an invention of the 2nd century pagan Roman Emperor Hadrian, in his effort to erase the Jewish people and the name "Israel" forever.
(Deleted for length management. Please refer to the original post for more details.)
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/167494-antizionism-antizionists.html

I understand. What I said was because countries come and go, and the events happened at a time the currently called Palestinians have already created a country and settled in it. They don't deserve the difficulties they are facing simply because they were born in a land they didn't make decisions in making.

Similar to current people of USA and Australia who I don't have anything against. Their ancestors did what they did to the natives. Current people are not to blame for that sad past.