Can there be dharma without scriptures?

[Ravi500]

Friend Ravi,
Few are still capable of taking the journey with friends as many of us here may not be having gurus but still we are all on the path or atleast in this life it is such.

Yes, but if you follow the scriptures and have the company of an enlightened master, you will be moving at jet speed, spiritually speaking , rather than at walking speed.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Ravi,

Yes, but if you follow the scriptures and have the company of an enlightened master, you will be moving at jet speed, spiritually speaking , rather than at walking speed.

As explained it is a choice and in Kali yug how many right gurus are there besides one has to be a guru specially for your temperament besides a guru selects his disciple and not the other way round.
Regards scriptures they are already available and used by those who wish to revolutionise the process.

Love & rgds

 

[chinu]

Yes, but if you follow the scriptures and have the company of an enlightened master, you will be moving at jet speed, spiritually speaking , rather than at walking speed.

Jet speed towards... What ? illusion ?
Its all illusion until one reaches, i think.

As far as i know, all the great masters of the history never readed any scripture.

 

[atanu]

Friend atanu,

This is a discussion forum and only discussion dharma in force here.
Whatever points have been posted is already there for discussions.
We are all humans which are part of that which we humans have decided to label it as Brahman/God/etc.
We are communicating in English and we consult english dictionary to look up meanings which is understood to have a through research methodology for every word to find its true meaning.
Let us approach step by step as we do in any discussion.

Love & rgds

My view:

1.Dharma is not religion. Dharma is that which upholds and it is without a beginning. Dharma is far far deeper than any religion or sampradaya. But the word 'dharma' has no clear equivalent single word in Abrahamic religions.

2.Similarly, Veda is without a beginning and it is not human invention. Veda is not the written text but is the sabda heard by Seers in mindless mode. Please refer to the earlier post. http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3742763-post34.html

4. Sanatana dharma is a term which is directly linked to Vaidika dharma and has no meaning outside it. So, de-linking Veda and Sruti from Sanatana dharma is inappropriate, IMO.

 

[Ravi500]

As explained it is a choice and in Kali yug how many right gurus are there besides one has to be a guru specially for your temperament besides a guru selects his disciple and not the other way round.

'When the student is ready, the teacher arrives.' - Proverb

This is a fact. The readiness signals the passion to learn and improve, and meticulous application of what one already knows in terms of wisdom.

 

[Ravi500]

As far as i know, all the great masters of the history never readed any scripture.

I humbly disagree over here.

Lord Buddha himself attained a sound knowledge of the vedic scriptures before he strived for enlightenment.

Rama's discussion and inquiries at a young age with Rishi Vasistha , forms the teachings of the Yoga Vasistha.

 

[Desert Snake]

Jet speed towards... What ? illusion ?
Its all illusion until one reaches, i think.

As far as i know, all the great masters of the history never readed any scripture.

That's irrelevant.

 

[atanu]

Jet speed towards... What ? illusion ?
Its all illusion until one reaches, i think.

As far as i know, all the great masters of the history never readed any scripture.

That is the illusion that scripture is the printed word.

 

[chinu]

I humbly disagree over here.

Lord Buddha himself attained a sound knowledge of the vedic scriptures before he strived for enlightenment.
Rama's discussion and inquiries at a young age with Rishi Vasistha , forms the teachings of the Yoga Vasistha.

But Buddha never recommended anybody to do so, Why ?
Perhaps, at last he found that reading scripture is just wastage of time.

 

[chinu]

That's irrelevant.

For you ?

 

[Desert Snake]

For you ?

What I mean is, one can learn both ways, by reading or self learning..both valid and probably both....necessary for constructive discourse.
I'm not saying anyone has to do anything, but why not recommend reading as well.

 

[chinu]

That is the illusion that scripture is the printed word.

Of course that is illusion that scripture is the printed word, That's why it is always illusion that one has understood it correctly

 

[chinu]

but why not recommend reading as well.

Becuase rather than reading and understanding them, innocent people start bowing their heads infront of scriptures like as scripture itself is God and they start bringing gifts and all that for scriptures

 

[Desert Snake]

Becuase rather than reading and understanding them, innocent people start bowing their heads infront of scriptures like as scripture itself is God and they start bringing gifts and all that for scriptures

True.
See, you thought we didn't agree on anything?

Anyways, i'm off to some other threads
P.s. I enjoy reading scholarly works, no insult intended to anyone

 

[zenzero]

Friend atanu,

Similarly, Veda is without a beginning and it is not human invention.

The Vedas are apauruṣeya ("not of human agency").[3][4][5] They are supposed to have been directly revealed, and thus are called śruti ("what is heard")

Who heard these? surely humans who were enlightened and as humans are a evolved specie and we are trying to understand that dharma of nature is eternal and which means existence existed even before the vedic period.

Love & rgds

 

[chinu]

Anyways, i'm off to some other threads

Which thread ? please tell me

P.s. I enjoy reading scholarly works, no insult intended to anyone

I respect.

 

[atanu]

Of course that is illusion that scripture is the printed word, That's why it is always illusion that one has understood it correctly

Pointing out "There is Moon" does not involve much understanding. But without the scripture pointing that out there is no way for the mind to intuit something beyond it.

 

[LuisDantas]

But Buddha never recommended anybody to do so, Why ?
Perhaps, at last he found that reading scripture is just wastage of time.

The Buddha was certainly aware of the writing of the Triptaka, so it is clear that he did not disapprove of scriptures.

 

[atanu]

Friends,

CAN THERE BE 'DHARMA' WITHOUT SCRIPTURES?

Love & rgds

Friends,

We all agree that 'dharma' is eternal it was there even before the vedic period so in effect the eternal laws [dharma] of existence has nothing to do with any particular period or religion; meaning 'sanatana dharma' is a common term for that eternal law and cannot be claimed to be associated with the one who coined the word, like the word 'GOD' that it is for only Christians and not others.

Friends your comments/perception/views??

Love & rgds

Ya. In the first post the subject was 'dharma'. Then in the subsequent post, shown above, the subject became 'sanatana dharma'

On this matter, I follow Knachi Paramacharya's views given in his book "Hindu Dharma". I note a few points from that book.

1. "Dharma is that which protects. Everyone, irrespective of any other thing, will be attracted to dharma because of discontentment with all things material".

Dharma Alone Protects from the Chapter "Religion In General", in Hindu Dharma : kamakoti.org:

2."Religion is the means of realizing dharma, artha, kama and moksa. These four are called purusarthas". And "The great understand the word dharma itself to mean religion."

The Purpose of Religion from the Chapter "Religion In General", in Hindu Dharma : kamakoti.org:

3. Hindu Religion is a religion without a name. Neither Hindu nor Sanatana words characterise this religion as in Vedas. It is Santana dharma as it is primeval. We do not know who founded this religion and when.

The Religion without a Name from the Chapter "The Vedic Religion: Introductory", in Hindu Dharma : kamakoti.org:

4. There are certain distinctive features of the Sanatana dharma called Hindu dharma.

Distinctive Features of Sanathan Dharama from the Chapter "The Vedic Religion: Introductory", in Hindu Dharma : kamakoti.org:

5. Vedas are the root scriptures. Regarding the nature of the Vedas, the following is said:

All sounds originate in space. From them arose creation. According to science, the cosmos was produced from the vibrations in space. By virtue of their austerities the sages had the gift of seeing the mantras in space, the mantras that liberate men from this creation. The Vedas are apauruseya (not the work of any human author) and are the very breath of the Paramatman in his form as space. The sages saw them and made a gift of them to the world.

The Religion without a Name from the Chapter "The Vedic Religion: Introductory", in Hindu Dharma : kamakoti.org:
..........................

The whole point is that the Sanatana Dharma has lot many distinctive features that are surely different from other religions. And this is as per the dharma guru of Hindus. And if one studies genuine Hindu gurus the views will remain more or less same.

Sanatana dharma or Vaidika dharma or Hindu dharma has both General (sAmanya) and the Particular (vishesha) features.

 

[atanu]

Friend atanu,
Who heard these? surely humans who were enlightened and as humans are a evolved specie and we are trying to understand that dharma of nature is eternal and which means existence existed even before the vedic period.

Love & rgds

Dear Zen

1. Let me repeat what Shri Shri Kanchi Paramcharya says:

All sounds originate in space. From them arose creation. According to science, the cosmos was produced from the vibrations in space. By virtue of their austerities the sages had the gift of seeing the mantras in space, the mantras that liberate men from this creation. The Vedas are apauruseya (not the work of any human author) and are the very breath of the Paramatman in his form as space. The sages saw them and made a gift of them to the world.

The Religion without a Name from the Chapter "The Vedic Religion: Introductory", in Hindu Dharma : kamakoti.org: