The Debate of God.

[Thief]

Now you're just clutching at straws.

If you truly knew God, you would not have to entertain fantasies about going to visit him in some 'afterlife'. You would know that God is fully available to you right here, right now, so that you would be completely fulfilled, because you would have discovered that God is right there, inside, all the time, just as good old Jesus told you he was:

"The Kingdom of God is within you" [NOW!]

Unfortunately, you don't believe him, but instead are still attached to dust.

We are each one...attached to the dust.
You can't go anywhere without it.
You are no better off than I am.

If you can't get out of your dust...when you think you know better....
how then when you die?

You will follow your dust into the box...into the ground....
Eternal darkness is physically real.

Oh!...that's right...YOU think this is all an illusion.

Seems then you will indeed follow your dust into the ground.
You have no intention of going to meet your Maker.

 

[Thief]

Are you now so frustrated?

Not I....oh no!

 

[godnotgod]

We are each one...attached to the dust.
You can't go anywhere without it.
You are no better off than I am.

If you can't get out of your dust...when you think you know better....
how then when you die?

You will follow your dust into the box...into the ground....
Eternal darkness is physically real.

Oh!...that's right...YOU think this is all an illusion.

Seems then you will indeed follow your dust into the ground.
You have no intention of going to meet your Maker.

You are the one who believes there is a self that 'stands up from the dust' and goes to a Heaven in the sky. There must be a self in order for any attachment to dust to occur.

Since, for you, there exists this 'self' that thinks it must get out of his personal dust, you reinforce the idea of following it into the grave.

In short, you are ruled, not by God, but by dust! Worse, you think it is 'my' dust!

For me, there is no such 'self' that can be attached to any dust in the first place, and if all is illusion, where, then, is any such 'dust' that anyone can attach themselves to?

If you still think you can be so attached, then show me this 'self' which can do so.

In your view, you are an artifact, like a clay pot, 'made' by a 'Maker', and, if made, is subject to 'disassembly' as you have indicated previously. But it is obvious that we are not 'things' that are made from separate parts, but are organic and spiritual entities that are, instead, grown.

We don't come into the world via a so-called 'Maker', but come out of it, in the same manner that an orange emerges from an orange tree.

If you understood that the universe is divine play, and that it grows us, then you would also understand why babies understand the game of Peek-a-Boo intuitively, without ever having been taught.

They get it.

You don't

 

[godnotgod]

He [is and he] isn't?

The Absolute neither 'is' nor 'isn't'. That is why It can be called 'The Absolute'.

 

[Thief]

You are the one who believes there is a self that 'stands up from the dust' and goes to a Heaven in the sky. There must be a self in order for any attachment to dust to occur.

This is called 'life' by most people.

Since, for you, there exists this 'self' that thinks it must get out of his personal dust, you reinforce the idea of following it into the grave.

I say we separate from it as per belief.

In short, you are ruled, not by God, but by dust! Worse, you think it is 'my' dust!

I am subject to breath and breathing...so are you.
But I make denial of shallow thought and feeling....such is the law of God.

For me, there is no such 'self' that can be attached to any dust in the first place, and if all is illusion, where, then, is any such 'dust' that anyone can attach themselves to?

IF?.....after all of this discussion you now fall back to 'IF'?

If you still think you can be so attached, then show me this 'self' which can do so.

'I' do so with each reply.

In your view, you are an artifact, like a clay pot, 'made' by a 'Maker', and, if made, is subject to 'disassembly' as you have indicated previously. But it is obvious that we are not 'things' that are made from separate parts, but are organic and spiritual entities that are, instead, grown.

Physically grown....yeah.
Spiritually developed...yeah.

We don't come into the world via a so-called 'Maker', but come out of it, in the same manner that an orange emerges from an orange tree.

Your spirit will stand from the dust.....yeah.
If not.....you're headed for the grave.

If you understood that the universe is divine play, and that it grows us, then you would also understand why babies understand the game of Peek-a-Boo intuitively, without ever having been taught.

They get it.

You don't

I'm doing just fine.

 

[godnotgod]

Your spirit will stand from the dust.....yeah.
If not.....you're headed for the grave.

You would already be dead, so how can a dead person head anywhere? Exercising one's 'free will' I suppose, or maybe 'mind over matter', LOL.:biglaugh:

Q: "Excuse me, sir. Where do you think you're going?
A: Why, I'm headed for the grave, of course!
Q: But, you're dead, silly!
A: Oh...I had'nt noticed...heh..heh..heh..well, then, maybe I can stand up from the dust, perhaps?
Q: Uh...you're DEDD!...you know...DEDD!...and DEDD men can't do anything!...Get it?
A: Oh, I see. Well, then, maybe I can....just...pretend play?

I'm doing just fine.

Right. That's what the man fatally shot with a bullet said.

"Don't mind me, doc, why, it's only a scratch...I'll be just fine, you'll see!...why, I'll be up and at 'em in no time at all...no time at all...heh..heh..heh....?:thud:

 

[godnotgod]

Physically grown....yeah.
Spiritually developed...yeah..

Physically grown and spiritually developed are not 'made'. I asked you for the difference previously, and, as usual, you failed to provide an answer. If you were not 'made', then there is no 'Maker'.

 

[Thief]

You would already be dead, so how can a dead person head anywhere? Exercising one's 'free will' I suppose, or maybe 'mind over matter', LOL.:biglaugh:

Q: "Excuse me, sir. Where do you think you're going?
A: Why, I'm headed for the grave, of course!
Q: But, you're dead, silly!
A: Oh...I had'nt noticed...heh..heh..heh..well, then, maybe I can stand up from the dust, perhaps?
Q: Uh...you're DEDD!...you know...DEDD!...and DEDD men can't do anything!...Get it?
A: Oh, I see. Well, then, maybe I can....just...pretend play?

Right. That's what the man fatally shot with a bullet said.

"Don't mind me, doc, why, it's only a scratch...I'll be just fine, you'll see!...why, I'll be up and at 'em in no time at all...no time at all...heh..heh..heh....?:thud:

That's quite a sense of humor you have there....keep laughing.

You've quoted the Carpenter in previous posts in this thread.....how about....
'Let the dead bury the dead.'

 

[Thief]

Physically grown and spiritually developed are not 'made'. I asked you for the difference previously, and, as usual, you failed to provide an answer. If you were not 'made', then there is no 'Maker'.

I am not my own handiwork.
Neither are 'you'.

 

[godnotgod]

I am not my own handiwork.
Neither are 'you'.

You are the handiwork of your society and your genes.

Get over them both.

 

[Thief]

You are the handiwork of your society and your genes.

Get over them both.

Nay to the above.

I am of spirit and heart.
My flesh is of clay.

The clay will become dust.
I will continue.

 

[godnotgod]

Nay to the above.

I am of spirit and heart.
My flesh is of clay.

The clay will become dust.
I will continue.

Your society taught you your martial arts, your language, your morals, while nature determined your species and its characteristics. You are their handiwork, none of which can continue, as they vanish upon your physical death, but as you identify yourself as "I" with your handiwork, "I" also will not continue.

But one thing was present prior to any handiwork and will remain after your death. What is it?

 

[Thief]

Your society taught you your martial arts, your language, your morals, while nature determined your species and its characteristics. You are their handiwork, none of which can continue, as they vanish upon your physical death, but as you identify yourself as "I" with your handiwork, "I" also will not continue.

But one thing was present prior to any handiwork and will remain after your death. What is it?

So you're going to circumvent all previous postings and just regurgitate your question again.

There are billions of copies of a device that will produce unique spirit on each occasion.

And you would claim this is a futile effort on God's part?
No one survives the last breath?
every occasion is rendered to dust?

Heaven is empty...if you have your say.

 

[godnotgod]

And you would claim this is a futile effort on God's part?

Only if God is serious. If you look directly into the universe, it is obvious that the mind responsible for it is a mind of great variety; great variety for no particular reason. And if there is no particular reason for the proliferation of such great variety, then such proliferation must be exhibited out of a sense of play. So what futility is there in having a bit of fun? Is there any particular reason for the existence of innumerable stars, planets, and galaxies; of the infinite variety and uniqueness of snowflakes, and all other forms, including man?

If God is a rational and logical being, why not just create one star, the Sun, and one planet, the Earth, where He placed man in the Garden of Eden? A few plants, veggies, fruits, and animals would have done nicely, just enough to create a balance. But it appears that God went berserk, and continues to do so with the continued creation of more stars, galaxies, black holes, not to mention new species of both plants, animals, insects, bacteria, right here on Earth, all for .....what?

No one survives the last breath?
every occasion is rendered to dust?

What did I say? Your handiwork does not survive, as it is a product of both your social and biological environments. It is your handiwork with which you identify yourself as "I". If your handiwork does not survive death, which it obviously does not, then neither does "I".

"I" = handiwork.

But something was present prior to the very first detail of your handiwork having been applied, and is present when your handiwork is dissolved in death.

What is that something?

 

[Thief]

Only if God is serious. If you look directly into the universe, it is obvious that the mind responsible for it is a mind of great variety; great variety for no particular reason. And if there is no particular reason for the proliferation of such great variety, then such proliferation must be exhibited out of a sense of play. So what futility is there in having a bit of fun? Is there any particular reason for the existence of innumerable stars, planets, and galaxies; of the infinite variety and uniqueness of snowflakes, and all other forms, including man?

If God is a rational and logical being, why not just create one star, the Sun, and one planet, the Earth, where He placed man in the Garden of Eden? A few plants, veggies, fruits, and animals would have done nicely, just enough to create a balance. But it appears that God went berserk, and continues to do so with the continued creation of more stars, galaxies, black holes, not to mention new species of both plants, animals, insects, bacteria, right here on Earth, all for .....what?


What did I say? Your handiwork does not survive, as it is a product of both your social and biological environments. It is your handiwork with which you identify yourself as "I". If your handiwork does not survive death, which it obviously does not, then neither does "I".

"I" = handiwork.

But something was present prior to the very first detail of your handiwork having been applied, and is present when your handiwork is dissolved in death.

What is that something?

Just can't give up the word play....can you?

If you look directly into the universe.......really?

I don't think God is playing around.
The creation is a serious statement of existence.

This life and the many unique spirits being formed is a serious event.

No kidding around.

I am not my own handiwork.
Neither are you.

 

[godnotgod]

Just can't give up the word play....can you?

If you look directly into the universe.......really?

Such a pity that you never took the time to do so.

I am not my own handiwork.
Neither are you.

I never said you were. I said your handiwork is the work of your society and your biology. That is your temporal self. It is born and dies. What? Did you think you can take it with you? ha ha ha ha hahhhhhhhhaaaahahahah!

And when you at last 'stand up from the dust' and go to 'meet your Maker', He will look at you and ask:

"Oh, flower of Certain's ancient season;
Why send your breath again?
For you are Seldom Sister's reason;
For remaining Never's friend."

So tell me, Thief: what is so 'serious' about the universe?
What do you suppose God's 'game plan' might be?


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times]"Shall I, a gnat which dances in Thy ray, Dare to be reverent?"
Coventry Patmore

[/FONT]

 

[Thief]

I think this thread has served it's purpose.

Any third party following this dialog can see what's right and wrong.

 

[atanu]

Only if God is serious. ---

If there is the fullness, can we grant a Self to that? Or is it in ego's power to deny that?

"I" = handiwork.

But something was present prior to the very first detail of your handiwork having been applied, and is present when your handiwork is dissolved in death.
What is that something?

The localised "i" is handiwork of nature. But the localised "i" points to universal awareness. And who will deny the freedom of the universal awareness to feel "I" through many forms?

 

[godnotgod]

I think this thread has served it's purpose.

Any third party following this dialog can see what's right and wrong.

Aw, shucks! Just when we wuz gittin' 'ta the good part, where you wuz gonna show us all what the universe was created FOR. As for me, I think it makes an outstanding doorstop.

Hmnmmm....wonder what's on the other side of that door, anyway....

'Blue blue windows behind the stars.....'
CSN&Y
*****

"The thing's hollow—it goes on forever—and—oh my God—it's full of stars!"
2001: A Space Odyssey
*****

 

[Thief]

Aw, shucks! Just when we wuz gittin' 'ta the good part, where you wuz gonna show us all what the universe was created FOR. As for me, I think it makes an outstanding doorstop.

Hmnmmm....wonder what's on the other side of that door, anyway....

'Blue blue windows behind the stars.....'
CSN&Y
*****

"The thing's hollow—it goes on forever—and—oh my God—it's full of stars!"
2001: A Space Odyssey
*****

As in purpose?
More like effect.
I believe God to be the Cause.
And the universe (one word) is the effect.