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Does Israel have a "right" to Palestine?

-Peacemaker-

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
Badran said:
.

2) What is your criteria for qualifying a group/tribe to earning the right to a home land? Race, religion, ethnicity, all of those things or something else?

I ask only in attempt to understand your vision of how the world should be.
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I think primarily it's an ethnicity. I think when you look at the nations of the world, especially the old world, you see the nations broken up in such a way. I also view Jews as an ethnicity before a religion in part because most of the people I've met that called themselves "jewish" weren't religious.
 
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Falvlun

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
KingOfTheJungle said:
I think primarily it's an ethnicity. I think when you look at the nations of the world, especially the old world, you see the nations broken up in such a way. I also view Jews as an ethnicity before a religion in part because most of the people I've met that called themselves "jewish" weren't religious.
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While I agree that may be ideal, I don't think practically that's how it works.

Besides, by the same token, the Palestinians would have a right to their strip of land too.
 
Falvlun

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Shermana said:
The MAIN justification is that they've collectively been outright hostile to Israel and their leadership is actively and has been seeking to utterly obliterate the Jewish state. Population transfers have been historically effective methods of dealing with hostile ethnic groups, especially when one side wins a defensive war. Besides, it's what the Palestinian leadership wants for the Jews. Why are they electing leaders who want to ethnically cleanse the Jews? It's not a matter of 2 wrongs, it's a matter of dealing with people who collectively vote for organizations that want you dead and gone and their leadership.
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I think this is the better argument and the one you should stick with. Although, I do think it is fair to point out that the Israeli's haven't exactly been blameless in generating the aura of hostility. Also, I find it likely that the majority of Palestinians aren't terrorists, but would just like to live freely and peacefully and feed their kids and visit their families.

Shermana said:
And besides that, it's not just that Jordan is mostly Palestinian ethnically, it SITS ON 80% OF WHAT IS CALLED PALESTINE.
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Now there you go again. You claim that the above is your primary justification, but here you go bolding this claim again, like it should mean something. You seem to think this is a trump card. It is really quite meaningless when you consider it. The Palestinian people are not the Jordanian people, and their land is not the same as Jordan's land, no more than Michiganders are Canadians.
Shermana said:
Of course it's about who Israel gave citizenship to. They gave it to those who were peaceful and didn't clear out their villages on their own will to pave the way for the advancing Arab armies. Thus, they had the chance to become ISRAELI citizens, and most of them refused.
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That's what I'm asking you! Did Israel offer Israeli citizenship-- with all the rights and benefits-- to the Palestinians? I think not. Do you have a source for this? When was it? What were the strings? In contrast, Jordan did offer the Palestinians full citizen rights when their land was annexed by Jordan.
 
Caladan

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Actually Arabs who stayed in Israel after the 1948 war became Israeli citizens. As far as I know Israel and Jordan are the only countries in the Middle East who granted Palestinians a citizenship, all other Middle Eastern countries denied them such status. The Palestinians who live in the Gaza strip and the West Bank came under Israeli rule only during the Six-Day war in 1967. Later they would be governed under the Palestinian Authority as negotiations between the PLO and Israel progressed (and collapsed, and continued again, and before Hamas rise to power in Gaza).
So there is certainly a sector of Israeli Arabs in Israel, who are citizens of the state. Can and do serve in the parliament or the government. With some Arab communities actively serving in the Israeli military.
 
F0uad

F0uad

Well-Known Member
Well what we are missing is a person like Arafat if he was still here there would probably a two state solution already.
 
Falvlun

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Caladan said:
Actually Arabs who stayed in Israel after the 1948 war became Israeli citizens. As far as I know Israel and Jordan are the only countries in the Middle East who granted Palestinians a citizenship, all other Middle Eastern countries denied them such status. The Palestinians who live in the Gaza strip and the West Bank came under Israeli rule only during the Six-Day war in 1967. Later they would be governed under the Palestinian Authority as negotiations between the PLO and Israel progressed (and collapsed, and continued again, and before Hamas rise to power in Gaza).
So there is certainly a sector of Israeli Arabs in Israel, who are citizens of the state. Can and do serve in the parliament or the government. With some Arab communities actively serving in the Israeli military.
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But was this Israeli citizenship offered to any Palestinian who wanted to be an honest Israeli citizen, or just to those who already lived within Isreali's borders? Shermana claimed that somebody (not sure who, but I think after a round-about way, I've established that he was talking about Israel) offered the Palestinians citizenship, but that they rejected it.
 
Caladan

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Falvlun said:
But was this Israeli citizenship offered to any Palestinian who wanted to be an honest Israeli citizen, or just to those who already lived within Isreali's borders? Shermana claimed that somebody (not sure who, but I think after a round-about way, I've established that he was talking about Israel) offered the Palestinians citizenship, but that they rejected it.
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We're gonna have to wait for Shermana to elaborate more on the issue I guess. AFAIK all Arabs who remained in this area became Israeli citizens. Today I live in a country in which Arabic is a second official language, and where every road sign is written in Hebrew, Arabic and English.
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Falvlun said:
But was this Israeli citizenship offered to any Palestinian who wanted to be an honest Israeli citizen, or just to those who already lived within Isreali's borders? Shermana claimed that somebody (not sure who, but I think after a round-about way, I've established that he was talking about Israel) offered the Palestinians citizenship, but that they rejected it.
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Good point Falvlun, what kind of citizenship, can one day the prime minister of israel be a palestinian by votes.

Citezinship should be regardless of religion,all should be equali on rights.

One example is USA, you have all rights as an american whether being christian,atheist,muslim or a jew to be the president of USA.

President Obama as an example which everyone in USA know that his father was a muslim,his relatives are muslims , can this happen in Israel that we can see one day a prime minister whos his father is a palestinian.

That can never happen in israel.

i hope that every country to separate religion from nationality,if i love my country then regardless of what its name,i should have all my rights as born on it,keep your religion for your heaven and leave the earth for all humans to live on it in peace.
 
Caladan

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
FearGod said:
Good point Falvlun, what kind of citizenship, can one day the prime minister of israel be a palestinian by votes.

Citezinship should be regardless of religion,all should be equali on rights.

One example is USA, you have all rights as an american whether being christian,atheist,muslim or a jew to be the president of USA.

President Obama as an example which everyone in USA know that his father was a muslim,his relatives are muslims , can this happen in Israel that we can see one day a prime minister whos his father is a palestinian.

That can never happen in israel.

i hope that every country to separate religion from nationality,if i love my country then regardless of what its name,i should have all my rights as born on it,keep your religion for your heaven and leave the earth for all humans to live on it in peace.
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Once again you show your ignorance after this has already been pointed out to you.
Israeli Arabs have full Israeli citizenship. They can and DO serve in the Israeli parliament. There is no excuse for your ignorance. Educate yourself about Israel instead of spreading misinformation.
 
Caladan

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Jayhawker Soule said:
Are you suggesting that it's not. Sometimes your apologetics vanquishes your integrity.
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Judging by your Rosa Parks comparison you haven't the clue of what you're talking about. Do tell abot the Jews only bus sections in Israel.
That's a disgusting post, and you should know better. I work in a government organizations where I have Arab managers. And I've served in an army side by side with Arab soldiers. I think your America is way behind us.
 
Godobeyer

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
in the Torah , it's mention to the jews and palestines and arabs and other people lived in "Holy Land ".... which mean it's was a multi residences .

the Holy Land when it's under the muslims , all the religions are free to practice their own religions , now their is an abuse and distinction against the residences muslims.

edited (addition):

there is an abuse religous and distinction against the residences muslims and christians .
 
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