Did Jesus say he was God???

[javajo]

So you're saying that the meaning of the verse is "You can go on sinning and no other sin offering is necessary", that's why I highligted the ones in red because I knew you'd say that.

Anyways, I guess you also need 27 because there will in fact be interpretations such as teh above.
Now put those two together and you get quite a different picture than what you're saying. BUT I do like the proof of how cherry picking can get the context to say what you want.

I'm also going to take a guess and say that your interpretation of 28-29 is that I'm trampling on the cross with my interpretation. I'll just say the same thing about yours if you do.

I'll say your argument for you: Saying that you actually have to obey and not sin to attain Salvation is insulting the Spirit of Grace in your view. Right? Well that's the complete opposite of my interpretation, which is if you think you can go ahead sinning that there's no consequence.
It was certainly a dreadful thing for Ananias and Sapphira wasn't it...

The sin here is unbelief. Believers, try as we might, will sometimes sin. There are severe consequences for sin in this life and loss of reward and position in the next, which is why it says in 1 Cor. 3:15 that at the Judgment Seat of Christ, some will suffer loss, yet still be saved, and Paul tells the carnal believers in Corinth that because of their sins some are sick and some have died. Note, too, even the one who laid with his father's mother was restored in 2 Cor. after he repented. I believe as far as salvation goes, all our sins have been paid for. Christ took our punishment in our place. A believer also has the Holy Spirit working and correcting them and teaching them so they will grow and overcome sin in their lives. I believe when we turn to Christ, we turn from sin. We repent, change our minds about sin, realizing we are sinners, and we turn away from sin. We change our mind about Christ and about how we can save ourselves, and trust him to have paid for all our sins.

 

[Shermana]

The sin here is unbelief. Believers, try as we might, will sometimes sin. There are severe consequences for sin in this life and loss of reward and position in the next, which is why it says in 1 Cor. 3:15 that at the Judgment Seat of Christ, some will suffer loss, yet still be saved, and Paul tells the carnal believers in Corinth that because of their sins some are sick and some have died. Note, too, even the one who laid with his father's mother was restored in 2 Cor. after he repented. I believe as far as salvation goes, all our sins have been paid for. Christ took our punishment in our place. A believer also has the Holy Spirit working and correcting them and teaching them so they will grow and overcome sin in their lives. I believe when we turn to Christ, we turn from sin. We repent, change our minds about sin, realizing we are sinners, and we turn away from sin. We change our mind about Christ and about how we can save ourselves, and trust him to have paid for all our sins.

I highly disagree, I believe the context of the whole passage is clearly talking about sin in general, and the definition of sin is clearly given in 1 John 3 as "Lawlessness".

Otherwise, your belief says that a "believer" is allowed to commit murder, adultery, theft, fraud, arson, etc. I can totally understand why this would be popular...

Note, too, even the one who laid with his father's mother was restored in 2 Cor. after he repente

Get the exact verse where it says he was restored. Notice that "repentance" is necessary.

tells the carnal believers in Corinth that because of their sins some are sick and some have died

Yes, and you didn't answer the part about Ananias and Sapphira.

 

[javajo]

I highly disagree, I believe the context of the whole passage is clearly talking about sin in general, and the definition of sin is clearly given in 1 John 3 as "Lawlessness".

Otherwise, your belief says that a "believer" is allowed to commit murder, adultery, theft, fraud, arson, etc. I can totally understand why this would be popular...


Get the exact verse. Notice that "repentance" is necessary.

I don't believe that, I believe that as a believer we are held to an even higher law of love. We are also commanded not to do those things you listed. The problem is that no matter how hard we try, we will still sin sometimes, whether we do something wrong or are not doing something right we should be doing. This is where Christ comes in, by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses (Acts 13:39).

We will sin in many ways throughout are Christian lives and will suffer as a result. Pain and suffering is a big part of how God begins to mold us into his image, and it is not always pleasant. He will correct those he loves, and we will reap what we sow. A believer who decides to sin will suffer for that sin way more than they could have imagined. Yet; The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand (Psalm 37:23-25). He will be the wiser and grow from glory to glory. The Bible states that ALL our sins have been paid for by the blood of Christ, as far as the common salvation is concerned, but that does not mean we will not suffer the consequences if we continue in sin. That is my belief.

 

[Mark2020]

Well, why did you ...
I guess we find ourselves at a stalemate in this debate.

I proved my view from references and all translations support my view. I checked some other languages (arabic, french, german, spanish, latin, italian and sahidic coptic) and all have the same meaning.
You both fail to give a single reference to support your view or to disprove mine.
You are calling all these people 'unfaithful' without supporting your claim by an acceptable argument or by a single reference.
Your counter-argument is just pathetic opposing all that.

All what you gave were some wishful thoughts and you attacked tens of translations and references calling them "unfaithful".
So until you show something useful proving your point and disproving mine, you can consider yourselves both defeated.

 

[look3467]

Debating word definitions is clouding up the truth!

Does this following verse not state something to that effect: Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

In other words, unless God opens our eyes to see and ears to hear spiritual truths, we remain blind and deaf to words and phrases which confound the wise.

The clouds on an otherwise clear day hide the Sun. Similarly, all this debating can be as the clouds hiding the Son.

Blessings, AJ

Blessings, AJ

 

[Mark2020]

Debating word definitions is clouding up the truth!

Does this following verse not state something to that effect: Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

In other words, unless God opens our eyes to see and ears to hear spiritual truths, we remain blind and deaf to words and phrases which confound the wise.

The clouds on an otherwise clear day hide the Sun. Similarly, all this debating can be as the clouds hiding the Son.

Blessings, AJ

Blessings, AJ

I agree to that, and allow me to add this:

(2 Corinthians 3:6) He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

But some people just try to use word definitions and twist them to deny the obvious. So I wanted to show them that we can use word definitions too to prove the obvious.

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

Jesus never claimed to be G-d, he is a "god", the Firstborn among creation. Plain and simple.

I am sorry but you are wrong miss. Shall I prove it?

 

[Shermana]

I am sorry but you are wrong miss. Shall I prove it?

Mister.

Hopefully you'll bring up something that I haven't addressed twice already.

 

[look3467]

But some people just try to use word definitions and twist them to deny the obvious. So I wanted to show them that we can use word definitions too to prove the obvious. >>>Mark2020

Our definitions have spiritual meanings to them of which the common soul can not understand unless God dwells in them.

Word definitions are what I believe God's confounding the wise with.

Examples are, hills, mountains, trees, the use of certain numbers repeatedly, real life stories and some not real life.
May or may not be real but metaphorical. Coming to mind is Jonah and the whale, the murder of Abel, the great flood and many others.

The ordered killing by God of peoples in the quest for the promised land.

All those examples and many more are literally used by the wise to find fault with God and to blaspheme His name.

Even Jesus was accused of blasphemy, so I mean, if not Jesus than who?

Understanding God is to have Him find a home in us!

Blessings, AJ

 

[javajo]

What think ye of this verse?:

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8 (KJV)

And in context:

Hebrews: ​

Chapter 1

God has spoken to us through Christ, His Son

​

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

​

who is superior to the angels, as shown by seven passages of Scripture

​

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
[SIZE=+0]8 But[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] unto[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] the Son[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] he saith, Thy[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] throne[/SIZE][SIZE=+0], O God[/SIZE][SIZE=+0], is for[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] ever[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] and ever[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]: a sceptre[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] of righteousness[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] is the sceptre[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] of thy[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] kingdom[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]. [/SIZE]
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?​

 

[Mark2020]

Our definitions have spiritual meanings to them of which the common soul can not understand unless God dwells in them.

Word definitions are what I believe God's confounding the wise with.

Examples are, hills, mountains, trees, the use of certain numbers repeatedly, real life stories and some not real life.
May or may not be real but metaphorical. Coming to mind is Jonah and the whale, the murder of Abel, the great flood and many others.

The ordered killing by God of peoples in the quest for the promised land.

All those examples and many more are literally used by the wise to find fault with God and to blaspheme His name.

Even Jesus was accused of blasphemy, so I mean, if not Jesus than who?

Understanding God is to have Him find a home in us!

Blessings, AJ

That's nice.

May God open everybody's eyes and touch our hearts.

 

[look3467]

What think ye of this verse?:

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8 (KJV)

And in context:

Hebrews: ​

Chapter 1

God has spoken to us through Christ, His Son

​

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

​

who is superior to the angels, as shown by seven passages of Scripture

​

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
[SIZE=-0]8 But[/SIZE][SIZE=-0] unto[/SIZE][SIZE=-0] the Son[/SIZE][SIZE=-0] he saith, Thy[/SIZE][SIZE=-0] throne[/SIZE][SIZE=-0], O God[/SIZE][SIZE=-0], is for[/SIZE][SIZE=-0] ever[/SIZE][SIZE=-0] and ever[/SIZE][SIZE=-0]: a sceptre[/SIZE][SIZE=-0] of righteousness[/SIZE][SIZE=-0] is the sceptre[/SIZE][SIZE=-0] of thy[/SIZE][SIZE=-0] kingdom[/SIZE][SIZE=-0]. [/SIZE]
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?​

Absolutely!

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

That's nice.

May God open everybody's eyes and touch our hearts.

Your prayer is in the will of God.

---------------------------------------

If not in this world, He will in the next.

Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

"As I live"...... suppose it meant only while He was here?

Or you suppose even though he were dead, yet he lives?

The latter is correct, and as he bowed bowed under the rule of man, man will bow at His feet and know that it is God in Jesus.

How simple it is!

Can you fathom the greatness of the love of God?

Blessings, AJ

 

[Shermana]

Once you understand that angels are clearly called gods such as in Psalm 136:2 and 82:1, Hebrews 1:8 makes more sense. (It also helps if you know its a passage from Psalms).

Who is "The god of this age" in 2 Corinthians 4:4?

 

[InChrist]

Once you understand that angels are clearly called gods such as in Psalm 136:2 and 82:1, Hebrews 1:8 makes more sense. (It also helps if you know its a passage from Psalms).

Who is "The god of this age" in 2 Corinthians 4:4?

[FONT=&quot]There are many false gods, gods with a small ”g”. Satan is this kind of god. But Jesus is not a false god is He? I believe He is God the Son.
But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 1 Tim. 3:16[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]According to the scriptures, this is something I don’t think you will understand as long as your mind is veiled by your faith in the law of the OT and you don’t really know Jesus Christ as your Savior.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 2 Cor. 3:14[/FONT]

 

[Mark2020]

Once you understand that angels are clearly called gods such as in Psalm 136:2 and 82:1, Hebrews 1:8 makes more sense. (It also helps if you know its a passage from Psalms).

Yes, I was expecting something funny.

Did you even read the preceding verses?

who is superior to the angels, as shown by seven passages of Scripture

​

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
[SIZE=+0]8 But[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] unto[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] the Son[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] he saith, Thy[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] throne[/SIZE][SIZE=+0], O God[/SIZE][SIZE=+0], is for[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] ever[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] and ever[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]: a sceptre[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] of righteousness[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] is the sceptre[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] of thy[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] kingdom[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]. [/SIZE]

 

[Awoon]

"angels" are God's thoughts, messages, messengers. Jesus demonstrated God's thoughts so he was an angel.

 

[Shermana]

Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Being "made"....he was a being called a "god" who is higher ranked than the "Angels". You are aware there are "Seraphim" and "Cherubim", ranks?

The word "Angel" is not the initial defintion of these "Heavenly beings" who are called "Sons of G-d" in Job 2. They are called "gods" (Elohim, not in the majestic plural), and the Father is called the "god of the gods". They are referred to as "Angels" because of their position. In order to inherit something, another party has to give it.

Thus when it says "Of which of the "Angels", it is meaning that of these beings that were "made" he is the Highest of all, only an Angel to the Father Himself. Yashua himself has his own "angels" if he sends a message via one.

 

[Mark2020]

And of course it's rendered "God" in all English translations and in all languages:

Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
Hébreux 1:8 Mais il a dit au Fils: Ton trône, ô Dieu, est éternel; Le sceptre de ton règne est un sceptre d'équité;
Hebraeer 1:8 aber von dem Sohn: "Gott, dein Stuhl währt von Ewigkeit zu Ewigkeit; das Zepter deines Reichs ist ein richtiges Zepter.
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

 

[Shermana]

It's also rendered "God" for 2 Corinthians 4:4.