Fatah-Hamas Reconciliation

[Sahar]

Sorry pal but that is straight up support for terrorism. It doesn't matter if it comes from Hamas, Israel, or where ever. Supporting terrorism is supporting terrorism. Dispicable.

Yes, supporting terrorism is supporting terrorism. And supporting terrorism is different from supporting people's right to resist oppression and fight for their freedom and independence. Apparently, some people don't want to acknowledge the Palestinians' right to fight against oppression and for their freedom. Despicable!

 

[TashaN]

I dont think Hamas and freedom are equated in my western mentality guided mind.

Lets forget the fight for one minute, and ask are Hamas a good example of an organisation that could lead to true freedom for the Palestinians in a social sense.

That's the best they could afford to remain alive, because all the peaceful-lovin' great leaders of the past have been assassinated so all what they could afford now is Hamas.

Do you want me to name for you the terrorist Jewish organizations--like Hamas--which was fighting for its own freedom before the deceleration of the state of Israel then became heroes afterward?

Because fighting in the name of religion has ever turned out well? Do you actually believe you are helping your case by quoting a religious passage about killing Jews? :sarcastic

Quoting religious passages in a organisation charter makes you more insane, not less.

No better than the foundations on which Israel was built upon.

Sorry pal but that is straight up support for terrorism. It doesn't matter if it comes from Hamas, Israel, or where ever. Supporting terrorism is supporting terrorism. Dispicable.

Hmmmmm, what is terrorism? who defines terrorism? the US which is continually using its veto in favor of Israel against the wishes of the whole world?

As i said before in my original post, i'm not proud of what Hamas does, but i respect their wish for having a state of their own just like the Israelis had their own.

The only thing keeping the US from backing a palestinian state is the possibility of Hamas being a part of the ruling Gov't. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Obviously no one in their right mind wants them in charge, especially when peace with Israel is the ultimate goal.

:biglaugh:

Hamas was founded just in 1987. Why hasn't the US done a thing before that or even after that when Hamas was still a baby and out of the picture.

 

[Flankerl]

Yeah, they are fighting for freedom. :yes: By the way, the one you mentioned about Jews is a known hadith and i guess you don't know its meaning. It's a prophecy.

Yeah thats why they quoted it. To make it happen.
But noooo cant be. They are honorable muslims and muslims never do anything bad.

What kind of freedom though TashaN ?

Thats easy.
One state solution. No Israel only Palestine. The Jizya for the non muslims.

etc etc etc etc etc


And many on this forum would love it.

 

[kai]

That's the best they could afford to remain alive, because all the peaceful-lovin' great leaders of the past have been assassinated so all what they could afford now is Hamas.

Do you want me to name for you the terrorist Jewish organizations--like Hamas--which was fighting for its own freedom before the deceleration of the state of Israel then became heroes afterward?

I am well aware that sometimes "terrorist" leaders come in from the cold but they usually renounce violence first. Which peace loving leaders have been assassinated?

I am well aware that sometimes "terrorist" leaders come in from the cold but they usually renounce violence first. Also i would point out the the world Zionist Congress renounced violence against civilians, and the Israeli government itself outlawed the Irgun and Lehi movements.

Which peace loving leaders have been assassinated?

 

[Darkness]

Do you want me to name for you the terrorist Jewish organizations--like Hamas--which was fighting for its own freedom before the deceleration of the state of Israel then became heroes afterward?

Your mistake is assuming we do not already know that there were Israeli terrorist groups (e.g. Irgun and Lehi) when the state of Israeli was being formed. Your mistake is assuming, because we are American I guess, that we support the state of Israel. I support the state of Israel's right to exist, just like I support the right of Palestinian independence (though, I would prefer a one-state solution). However, you do not see me saying that I respect the Settlers' movement, or their goals, because they are a bunch of psychotic terrorists.

No better than the foundations on which Israel was built upon.

You conveniently left out the part where I call Israel's current Prime Minister a terrorist supporter.

Hmmmmm, what is terrorism? who defines terrorism? the US which is continually using its veto in favor of Israel against the wishes of the whole world?

Terrorism is the utilisation of violence against (or with disregard for) civilians for with the intent of inducing fear, so as to achieve a political-ideological objective.

As i said before in my original post, i'm not proud of what Hamas does, but i respect their wish for having a state of their own just like the Israelis had their own.

And if it only takes a couple hundred dead Israeli girls on a school bus, well, that's just the way it has to be. :banghead3

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Well, it's not good for Israel.

It's much better to fight divided enemies rather than unified ones.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Yes, supporting terrorism is supporting terrorism. And supporting terrorism is different from supporting people's right to resist oppression and fight for their freedom and independence. Apparently, some people don't want to acknowledge the Palestinians' right to fight against oppression and for their freedom. Despicable!

I never said a word about me not wanting the Palestinian people to fight oppressions. How about you not put words in my mouth. I'm talking about Hamas here, and it's common knowledge that Hamas has no interest in peace with Israel. They want complete destruction of Israel, and anyone that supports that is dispicable. You can try to twist it anyway you choose. The fact remains.

 

[YmirGF]

Well, it's not good for Israel.

It's much better to fight divided enemies rather than unified ones.

Looking on the bright side, at least now it is "open season" for Israel.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Looking on the bright side, at least now it is "open season" for Israel.

You mean "open season" in the sense that Israel can now be agressive against everyone?

I could be wrong but I thought that they were already doing that, but with the added benefit that the infighting in the ranks of their enemies weakened them.

 

[TashaN]

Yeah thats why they quoted it. To make it happen.
But noooo cant be. They are honorable muslims and muslims never do anything bad.

The prophecy will occur at the end of this earthly life and it will happen to specific Jews, not all of them as many scholars says. It's as a result of a big and final war or something.

Thats easy.
One state solution. No Israel only Palestine. The Jizya for the non muslims.

etc etc etc etc etc


And many on this forum would love it.

Yeah, why not? If Israel is not happy with the two states solution which the whole world got fed up in calling them into implementing it so they deserve to have an enemy like Hamas who want the whole cake for themselves.

 

[TashaN]

I am well aware that sometimes "terrorist" leaders come in from the cold but they usually renounce violence first. Also i would point out the the world Zionist Congress renounced violence against civilians, and the Israeli government itself outlawed the Irgun and Lehi movements.

Which peace loving leaders have been assassinated?

Yeah, Hamas will renounce violence too after having their own state. It's a simple game which anyone can master.

By leaders i didn't mean big name leaders, but i meant scientists, doctors, spiritual leaders, revolution master planners, et cetera.

 

[croak]

Politicians will be politicians, no matter where in the world you find them. I wouldn't be surprised if Hamas accepted Israel's right to exist if they were offered a cake on a silver platter.

I am well aware that sometimes "terrorist" leaders come in from the cold but they usually renounce violence first?

It really depends on what benefits them more. Do you have sources for that statement? I'm curious.

Personally, I don't support Israel's right to exist. Or Palestine's. Or Lebanon's. Or America's. Or whatever other nation you choose. I don't think any nation state has an inherent right to exist. Jews have a right to exist, though. Arabs, too. As human beings, they have a right to life.

With regards to the reconciliation, I figure that Hamas will be forced to tone down its attacks and rhetoric. Fatah doesn't exactly have a crystal-clear past, but Israel is negotiating with them, to some extent. Why not Hamas? I say strategy and politics; they tend to go hand in hand. "What's in it for me? How can I make this benefit me?"

 

[croak]

You mean "open season" in the sense that Israel can now be agressive against everyone?

I could be wrong but I thought that they were already doing that, but with the added benefit that the infighting in the ranks of their enemies weakened them.

That's what I figured.

 

[TashaN]

Your mistake is assuming we do not already know that there were Israeli terrorist groups (e.g. Irgun and Lehi) when the state of Israeli was being formed. Your mistake is assuming, because we are American I guess, that we support the state of Israel. I support the state of Israel's right to exist, just like I support the right of Palestinian independence (though, I would prefer a one-state solution). However, you do not see me saying that I respect the Settlers' movement, or their goals, because they are a bunch of psychotic terrorists.



You conveniently left out the part where I call Israel's current Prime Minister a terrorist supporter.




Terrorism is the utilisation of violence against (or with disregard for) civilians for with the intent of inducing fear, so as to achieve a political-ideological objective.



And if it only takes a couple hundred dead Israeli girls on a school bus, well, that's just the way it has to be. :banghead3

I hope you got my point by now. I'm against killing civilians, and my religion strongly condemn it. I was just trying to make a point here. Some understood it and some didn't.

Hamas is all what Israel gonna get if they kept building illegal settelements and expand its territories. They are doing this so they can limit as much as they can the size of land Palestinians can has a state at, and no body is doing any serious work to prevent them from their master plan of systematic demographic changes.

 

[TashaN]

Why not Hamas? I say strategy and politics; they tend to go hand in hand. "What's in it for me? How can I make this benefit me?"

Israel knows that the West along with many Arab states despise Hamas, so now whenever someone would call upon them to implement the two states solution they will use the "involvement of Hamas" and "no peace with Hamas" card as an excuse not to do so.

After that, the West will have nothing but to go and convince Fatah not to cooperate and unite with Hamas and they will keep pressuring them until they separate again, and again and again and again, and it will go on and on in circles.

 

[Sahar]

I never said a word about me not wanting the Palestinian people to fight oppressions. How about you not put words in my mouth. I'm talking about Hamas here, and it's common knowledge that Hamas has no interest in peace with Israel. They want complete destruction of Israel, and anyone that supports that is dispicable. You can try to twist it anyway you choose. The fact remains.

Israel is illegitimate entity that has been based on injustice, oppression and massacres. This is Israel. Injustice and oppression can never last and it will not last, a law of life. Any freedom fighter has every right to resist and fight against all this. But some people are just too blind to see this. Israel doesn't know "peace", it's not in its dictionary. And any one who is thinking that there will be peace with those who have killed, stole, terrorized and destructed, can't be sane.

 

[Darkness]

I hope you got my point by now. I'm against killing civilians, and my religion strongly condemn it. I was just trying to make a point here. Some understood it and some didn't.

If you are against the killing of civilians then you have to be against Hamas; and you have to be against notions like "the Israelis deserve it." I guess all those innocent children deserve to die when Hamas decides to bomb a cafe or bus.

 

[England my lionheart]

Yes, supporting terrorism is supporting terrorism. And supporting terrorism is different from supporting people's right to resist oppression and fight for their freedom and independence. Apparently, some people don't want to acknowledge the Palestinians' right to fight against oppression and for their freedom. Despicable!

Maybe they are fighting the wrong people

 

[kai]

Yeah, Hamas will renounce violence too after having their own state. It's a simple game which anyone can master.

By leaders i didn't mean big name leaders, but i meant scientists, doctors, spiritual leaders, revolution master planners, et cetera.

But experience and history tells us they didn't renounce violence after the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza? Arnt they still committed to all of Palestine being a Palestine state not just Gaza and the west bank? I beleive the charter says all of what was known as "Palestine' prior to 1947" This is without doubt unattainable without involving the cooperation of the Arab states in a full scale war.

 

[kai]

Politicians will be politicians, no matter where in the world you find them. I wouldn't be surprised if Hamas accepted Israel's right to exist if they were offered a cake on a silver platter.


It really depends on what benefits them more. Do you have sources for that statement? I'm curious.

Personally, I don't support Israel's right to exist. Or Palestine's. Or Lebanon's. Or America's. Or whatever other nation you choose. I don't think any nation state has an inherent right to exist. Jews have a right to exist, though. Arabs, too. As human beings, they have a right to life.

With regards to the reconciliation, I figure that Hamas will be forced to tone down its attacks and rhetoric. Fatah doesn't exactly have a crystal-clear past, but Israel is negotiating with them, to some extent. Why not Hamas? I say strategy and politics; they tend to go hand in hand. "What's in it for me? How can I make this benefit me?"

In 2005, the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) indicated that its armed campaign was over and that it is now exclusively committed to democratic politics.

Gerry Adams - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia