The virtues of caste system

[A-ManESL]

Today our modern standpoint is that the (Indian) caste system is an evil and should be abolished. Our democratic perception regards everything which seems to make people unequal as unequivocally bad. In our hurry to condemn it, however we often disregard its original understanding, and the reason it was put forth in religious texts such as the Baghvad Gita. This article attempts to throw some light on the virtues of the original meaning of propounding the caste system which often gets overshadowed by its later developed defects.

In the Gita, the four castes: the brahmins, the kshatriyas, the vaishyas and the sudras (roughly the priests, warriors, merchants and the servants) are described in relation to the duties associated with them. The idea that is stressed upon is the dharma: the natural way of life. Each person has a natural capacity inbuilt in him and his dharma is determined accordingly. What is the dharma of the priest is different from the dharma of the warrior. In other words their capacities being different also implies that the duties and responsibilities they have to accept in life are also different. Moreover further stress is laid down on the fact that everyone has to follow their dharma with a spirit of detachment from the fruits of their actions. To quote: "You have the right to work, but for work's sake only. You have no right to the fruits of work...Perform every action with your heart fixed on the Supreme Lord. Renounce attachment to the fruits....In the calm of self surrender, the seers renounce the fruits of their actions, and so reach enlightment."

The caste system in the Gita differentiates between men, but that differentiation is not for material gains. Rather it is a natural and harmonious differentation which helps everyone in the community become spiritually developed. The Brahmin is not just a priest of a community, he is also the tap through which the community draw spiritual water. The Brahmin of the Gita may or may not be an expert theologian, but he is neccessarily one who has had direct experience of the spiritual knowledge. In this way he is able to guide and connect with everyone in the community and fill the vaccum which only material thoughts in a person often creates. The Kshatriya is not only a warrior, but a leader in peace as well. His courage, determination and generosity inspire and develop neccessary strength in people which they will need to become enlightened. The Vaishya is very different from the modern businessman. His role is in reality nearly opposite to what is understood today. In pursuance of Gita's understanding of non-attachment with their work for everyone, the original Vaishya has absolutely no right to squeeze out profits and cause loss to others. The real Vaishya is one who becomes a provider of the community thereby making sure that the natural harmony of the community as a whole does not get disrupted. The Sudra's role is one of self-dedication. He is not the sullen servant but a willing one. Like the others, without him, the community would descend into chaos.

The caste system's greatest defence is that it is related to the idea of spiritual development of a person. It loses meaning and becomes evil without it. Inwardly if every person performs his role with a spirit of detachment as advised, the roles themselves become mere rituals and symbols. As such the actions slowly descend into the background. What comes in the spotlight are things like knowledge, determination, welfare and dedication. Ultimately they become really relevant in the community, guiding everyone on their spiritual quest. Externally also, the natural harmony in the society, acts as an impetus to this developement for everyone. For the world as a whole peace outside is connected deeply with peace within.

 

[Madhuri]

I am so glad that you are on this forum! You have a lot of intelligence, knowledge and wisdom. I always enjoy reading your posts.
This is a great article with a fantastic insight into the concept of caste-system. If only others had you understanding!

 

[Madhuri]

Testing..
ETA: This should be viewable now.

 

[Pegg]

Today our modern standpoint is that the (Indian) caste system is an evil and should be abolished. Our democratic perception regards everything which seems to make people unequal as unequivocally bad. In our hurry to condemn it, however we often disregard its original understanding, and the reason it was put forth in religious texts such as the Baghvad Gita. This article attempts to throw some light on the virtues of the original meaning of propounding the caste system which often gets overshadowed by its later developed defects.

In the Gita, the four castes: the brahmins, the kshatriyas, the vaishyas and the sudras (roughly the priests, warriors, merchants and the servants) are described in relation to the duties associated with them. The idea that is stressed upon is the dharma: the natural way of life. Each person has a natural capacity inbuilt in him and his dharma is determined accordingly. What is the dharma of the priest is different from the dharma of the warrior. In other words their capacities being different also implies that the duties and responsibilities they have to accept in life are also different. Moreover further stress is laid down on the fact that everyone has to follow their dharma with a spirit of detachment from the fruits of their actions. To quote: "You have the right to work, but for work's sake only. You have no right to the fruits of work...Perform every action with your heart fixed on the Supreme Lord. Renounce attachment to the fruits....In the calm of self surrender, the seers renounce the fruits of their actions, and so reach enlightment."

The caste system in the Gita differentiates between men, but that differentiation is not for material gains. Rather it is a natural and harmonious differentation which helps everyone in the community become spiritually developed. The Brahmin is not just a priest of a community, he is also the tap through which the community draw spiritual water. The Brahmin of the Gita may or may not be an expert theologian, but he is neccessarily one who has had direct experience of the spiritual knowledge. In this way he is able to guide and connect with everyone in the community and fill the vaccum which only material thoughts in a person often creates. The Kshatriya is not only a warrior, but a leader in peace as well. His courage, determination and generosity inspire and develop neccessary strength in people which they will need to become enlightened. The Vaishya is very different from the modern businessman. His role is in reality nearly opposite to what is understood today. In pursuance of Gita's understanding of non-attachment with their work for everyone, the original Vaishya has absolutely no right to squeeze out profits and cause loss to others. The real Vaishya is one who becomes a provider of the community thereby making sure that the natural harmony of the community as a whole does not get disrupted. The Sudra's role is one of self-dedication. He is not the sullen servant but a willing one. Like the others, without him, the community would descend into chaos.

The caste system's greatest defence is that it is related to the idea of spiritual development of a person. It loses meaning and becomes evil without it. Inwardly if every person performs his role with a spirit of detachment as advised, the roles themselves become mere rituals and symbols. As such the actions slowly descend into the background. What comes in the spotlight are things like knowledge, determination, welfare and dedication. Ultimately they become really relevant in the community, guiding everyone on their spiritual quest. Externally also, the natural harmony in the society, acts as an impetus to this developement for everyone. For the world as a whole peace outside is connected deeply with peace within.

do you know how, and who, originated it?

 

[Mahatma Gandhi]

In the Gita, the four castes: the brahmins, the kshatriyas, the vaishyas and the sudras (roughly the priests, warriors, merchants and the servants) are described in relation to the duties associated with them. The idea that is stressed upon is the dharma: the natural way of life. Each person has a natural capacity inbuilt in him and his dharma is determined accordingly. What is the dharma of the priest is different from the dharma of the warrior. In other words their capacities being different also implies that the duties and responsibilities they have to accept in life are also different.

Here's the problem. Who's gonna determine this built-in capacity? Society? Let's say a person has the built-in capacity for spiritual studies, meditation, and such. But he's taken birth as a Shudra. So society bars him from doing duties according to this capacity, and instead force him to do things against his interests. The result is great anguish and frustration. Caste is like determining a person's destiny right from birth and thereby denying them the right to choose.

 

[gnomon]

To the OP:

Your caste system is garbage.

How does that make you feel?

 

[bobhikes]

I too would like to know how caste is determined. That would help me understand its value.

 

[gnomon]

I'm more interested in this arbitrary value system placed upon human beings. Perhaps we should ask the Dalits.

 

[Koldo]

Like it has been said already: How exactly is the caste determined?

 

[Valjean]

Aptitude testing

 

[bobhikes]

Aptitude testing

Funny, Did some research and its not for me. Although I can see virtures to a caste system how to maintain it is the biggest hurdle.

 

[Koldo]

Aptitude testing

In what manner?

 

[Madhuri]

I'm more interested in this arbitrary value system placed upon human beings. Perhaps we should ask the Dalits.

And if you knew much about this at all you'd realise that the dalits have nothing to do with it.
The OP is addressing the origins of this system. What exists today is something different, and something damaging. There never used to be such a thing as a dalit.

 

[Madhuri]

do you know how, and who, originated it?

Not that I am aware of.
This is perhaps thought of as a natural system. Those inclined toward certain lifestyles are the ones who developed the particular group and duties associated. Then their children followed in the same line.
In other words, some people are more inclined to working in politics or in the army, while some are more inclined to agriculture and others in devoting their lives to education, reading, spirituality etc.

The caste system is like any hierarchy we've seen in societies, certainly not just India. But it considers that people's nature is passed from parent to child- ie/ genetics. So a passionate, physical person will produce passionate and physical offspring. Those offspring take on the duties of the parents.

That is the idea behind it. I have no problem with its existence in the past. But it doesn't work today for various reasons.

 

[Madhuri]

To the OP:

Your caste system is garbage.

How does that make you feel?

This truly means very little.

 

[gnomon]

Actually the Dalits have been pretty much part of the caste system.

As well as what we now recognize as intersex individuals.

But yes, far be it from me, someone who is not Hindu, to ignore the entire history of people placed into an arbitrary caste system. Education is meaningless.

Of course for those who are interested and don't care about assuaging the emotions of latter day Hindus the Dalits are a historical class of Untouchables that the government of India has been addressing for a number of decades now trying to integrate these individuals into society.

But never mind. A self indentified religious Hindu on RF has stated they don't matter. So I guess that is all that matters. So let us not worry about them at all. They don't matter.

Or perhaps I have not made myself clear. Members of RF adhering to hinduism that say dalits don't matter are themselves utter garbage and they can go **** themselves. And while we're at it. Maybe blacks in the US were better off as slaves.

What other historical BS revisionism can we promote as religious sanctity.

Can I make myself any more clear?

If not PM I will willingly heap more abuse upon some backass mentality to tell people they are inferior simply based upon birth. Oh please. Challenge me.

edit: I'm being serious. Far be it from me for an Australian Hindu to claim superior knowledge over a human being to know what it's like to be told they are less than intelligent based on their dialect, their place of birth, etc. Please, oh ******* please tell me. Pretend to educate me.

edit: And yes. If anyone pretends to believe in a class system wants to discuss with someone who has had heaps of abuse dumped on them merely for their dialect and where they grew up you better damn well better be able to back up your arguments with more than the **** that has been provided so far. Until than I give everyone the old familiar suggestion.

 

[LuisDantas]

While I am no supporter of the caste system, I must recognize that ultimately it is not all that different from what we find in other societies. It would certainly be nice to have a world where people aren't pushed into social roles that are either degrading or unfit for them. But in reality, very few people can fully avoid that.

And really, I don't think the challenges of avoiding such pressures should be taken lightly. Social roles, by their very nature, are largely - in fact, almost entirely - due to external encouragement and even all-out inherited. It takes a lot of grooming for someone to really be well-adjusted into a social role, and that can't be done by self-determination alone.

 

[Valjean]

To the OP:

Your caste system is garbage.

How does that make you feel?

Downcaste

In what manner?

If, as many suggest, there's been a "mixing of castes," you won't find many pure varnas anymore. People won't feel a strong inclination toward any particular profession or lifestyle, so professional aptitude testing could help to discover which varna you're tempermentally suited for and which jati you'd be most successful in.

 

[gnomon]

While I am no supporter of the caste system, I must recognize that ultimately it is not all that different from what we find in other societies. It would certainly be nice to have a world where people aren't pushed into social roles that are either degrading or unfit for them. But in reality, very few people can fully avoid that.

And really, I don't think the challenges of avoiding such pressures should be taken lightly. Social roles, by their very nature, are largely - in fact, almost entirely - due to external encouragement and even all-out inherited. It takes a lot of grooming for someone to really be well-adjusted into a social role, and that can't be done by self-determination alone.

We find this in many societies. Thomas Sowell had a great report on this regarding where Southern whites who immigrated from Northern England and their descendants, regarded as white trash, who tried to immigrate to Northern cities in the US were treated as garbage.

What's funny is that even in this current age watching UK game programs one can see the jokes directed at those in Northern England as treated the same as white trash in the South.

I think the issue of class is an issue that is being well addressed in many modern societies but can still be seen in the common language of society. Even today if a story arises about the South in the U.S. regarding homosexuality, evolution or some other issue people will pass it off as a degenerate mentality never mind the actual facts. It's a common perception that people adhere to about a group of people based upon class and a perception of educational aptitude.

 

[Madhuri]

But never mind. A self indentified religious Hindu on RF has stated they don't matter. So I guess that is all that matters. So let us not worry about them at all. They don't matter.

I'm sorry, you are talking about me?
Please get over the emotional state you are in and re-read my posts. Hopefully you will manage to see that you have just written a lengthy reply that is entirely baseless.