Gun Control: Does Owning Guns make some people feel Special?

[Oberon]

Hence why I included the part "you can't get close to them (unless they're completely stupid)." If they're standing 15 feet away from me, I really have no choice but to get on the ground.

Actually, you can cross 15 feet fast enough to beat reaction time. People who are trained to secure possibly armed assailants make sure to keep more than 15 feet as this distance can be covered quickly. Now, usually this time includes drawing your weapon. However, charging an untrained person with a handgun is entirely possible at 15 feet. Not that I would recommend it.

The point I was making though was one of "usual distances." If you are getting mugged, you are in close quarters.

I'm pretty sure you don't need training to get out of the way of something and run.

That isn't an option in close quarters where most of these attacks take place.

Even those who are trained to disarm an opponent are taught that your best chance for survival is to avoid conflict and just give them what they want.

Not true at all. For example, my Krav Maga training centers around responding to the threat immediately and forcefully BEFORE the person can use there weapon. Disable them and get away.

If it's not enough to satisfy them, or what they want is something you can't (or won't) give, then it comes down to fight or flight.

And if it comes down to that, I want a gun. It is an excellent preventative measure.

 

[Oberon]

Wow Apo, thumbs up on this quote. :yes:

Apparently it didn't work well for Apollonius, who was stabbed twice.

 

[Kathryn]

There are plenty of alternatives to using a gun though. Pepper spray and stun guns are two of the most common. There is also basic self defense. I read years ago that a device that a woman puts inside her, and if someone tries to rape her, he ends up sticking his penis into a what is essentially a pouch with barbed tips. It also goes back to the fact that most law abiding citizens using a gun for self defense will not pull the trigger. Due to moral complications, it's much easier to spray a bottle, push a button that emits painful levels of volts, or just knee a guy in his family jewels.

OH,YEAH, that's what I want to do - insert something inside me that expands into a pouch with barbed tips. I will feel ever so much safer with the rapist, not only on top of me, but with him actually IN THE ACT OF RAPE.

Question - is he raping me before or after he beats me, stabs me, throws acid in my face, ties me up, sodomizes me, robs me, or whatever other sick thing he has in mind?

No thanks, I'll keep my loaded gun. Seems like a much better deterrent than whatever this device from hell claims to be.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Actually, you can cross 15 feet fast enough to beat reaction time. People who are trained to secure possibly armed assailants make sure to keep more than 15 feet as this distance can be covered quickly. Now, usually this time includes drawing your weapon. However, charging an untrained person with a handgun is entirely possible at 15 feet. Not that I would recommend it.

One can step off the line of attack or even retreat while drawing a weapon to increase response time if necessary. A person with a gun is not much of a match for a fast person with a knife however. A young person can travel 15 feet in under a second, not much target site time.

The trick is to see an attack coming before that and not being in your own little world text messaging.

 

[PMM]

I am a cop and I support gun ownership for law abiding citizens. Americans have that right guaraunteed in by Constitution. Will gun ownership keep the governement in check? No, the government has artillery and close air support. That does not change the fact it's a right, just like access to courts, freedom of speech, petitioning the governement etc. The problem is, when people commit gun crimes, the same people who cry about gun rights, feel sorry for these people and want them to get less punishment. You don't have to worry about my gun harming anyone who is not a threat to me or other law abiding citizens.

 

[Father Heathen]

If the woman is cornered by say 2 men, and she has a gun, the chances of them having a gun is equal. Then, if she pulls out a gun, they pull out guns. Round in circles we go only increasing the deadliness of the weapon.

Still better than being utterly helpless and completely at their mercy, right? Right.

 

[Father Heathen]

Exactly, if she shoots one of them, and they're not armed, won't she be charged more severely than them even though she is "defending" herself?

Not in any sane, reasonable court, no.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

If the woman is cornered by say 2 men, and she has a gun, the chances of them having a gun is equal. Then, if she pulls out a gun, they pull out guns. Round in circles we go only increasing the deadliness of the weapon.

This is why I don't leave home without my ICBM I purchased on the black market.

 

[Father Heathen]

if i were to use my sword collection on someone breaking into my house, i'd get in more trouble than them for using "self defence." Imagine if i killed someone who broke into my home, in Aus i'd get done for murder even though they shouldn't have been in my house.

Those are some *** backward laws.

 

[Father Heathen]

Those who hail victors in war celebrate the slaughter of men - Confucius (paraphrased). Indeed, the bearing of arms is a supreme act of cowardice in that a brave man faces his enemies without need for weapons, .. accepting truth as his only defense.

If you think self preservation is "cowardly" then you go ahead and surrender your life without resistance, but don't demand that others follow in your stupidity.

 

[Reverend Rick]

If you think self preservation is "cowardly" then you go ahead and surrender your life without resistance, but don't demand that others follow in your stupidity.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

 

[Father Heathen]

As the saying goes, "Guns don't kill, people do".

Exactly. Violence is a psychological issue often caused by one's environment and/or socioeconomic issues, not inanimate objects. If the desire to harm others is there, they'll find a way to do it regardless if you take away one of their countless ways to do so. In the U.K., guns are illegal but that has done nothing to curb the rise of stabbings. Sooo should they ban knifes, or perhaps any object that can be potentially sharp and pointy? I could bludgeon someone to death with a waffle iron. perhaps those should be banned as well? We shouldn't be willing to give up our rights and liberty over some ***** little insecurities.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Not in any sanee, reasonable court, no.

You have more faith in the legal system than I do.

 

[Father Heathen]

The best defense is to have a good offense. As for possessing a gun, this gives no assurance other than the distinct possibility that you'll be the killer rather than the victim, .. either way someone ends up dead.

Oh, please. Don't even try to pretend that the victim and their assailant are on equal terms. Why should anyone ever feel bad about saving their own lives when a criminal forced their hand? It's far better that the criminal die than the innocent victim, obviously. If someone was attempting to harm me or my loved ones, why exactly should I have any qualms about killing them? The violent offenders made their choices when they decided to prey upon the innocent, and thus deserve any potential consequence.

 

[Father Heathen]

I have used a gun to protect myself and I never even had to fire a shot. All I had to do was lift the gun into shooting position and the two thugs who were trying to run me off a deserted country road in the middle of nowhere (now I'm sure they had nothing positive in store for me after they ran me into the ditch) burned rubber and left the scene as quickly as possible.

Unfortunately, it appears there are people on this board who would've rather have seen you get hurt than to have deterred your assailants (because you could've hurt the poor widdle guys and that would've made you a big meanie). Shameful, but I guess they've lived cushy, sheltered lives that gave them their naive, rose-tinted worldview.

 

[Father Heathen]

yep as an american its my gawd darn right to shoot, kill do what I like and if anyone like Jamie oliver tells me I cant shoot and kill and be obese and have sex in public and rub my boobies on chickens

then screw them

I'm american

Your unclever sarcasm and ridiculous stereotypes expose not only your dainty insecurities but also your inability to formulate a solid, rational argument.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Mr. Cheese's snide humor undertones a rather good point actually. Why is it that if you ask a person in another country if they think guns make a person safer, they say no? Americans have been conditioned to think guns make a person safer, because Americans have always had the right to own a gun, and they will do anything to hold on to that right, even if it's not condusive.

 

[Oberon]

Why is it that if you ask a person in another country if they think guns make a person safer, they say no? Americans have been conditioned to think guns make a person safer, because Americans have always had the right to own a gun, and they will do anything to hold on to that right, even if it's not condusive.

Your logic can easily be reversed: non-americans have been conditioned to think guns don't make a person safer. And again, opinion doesn't really matter so much compared to actual study (which is difficult). You really can't accurately compare a 1 place with fewer guns with another with more in terms of crime. You aren't controlling well enough for other factors. You have to combine this type of study with others (e.g. comparing the same place over time).

 

[Rainbow Mage]

How does the citizen having the right to own a gun actually serve a purpose?

 

[Father Heathen]

Mr. Cheese's snide humor undertones a rather good point actually.

Not really, no. Ridiculous straw men that have no basis in reality really don't have any valid point. His opinion was formed out of a purely emotional response. Nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction borne of insecurity. If someone doesn't understand something, then their opinion of it is wholly worthless. Like I've already said, only rational, substantiated arguments hold any validity.