Do you understand the New Testament

[Oberon]

Lol!!! Its "you people" who have corrupted and enslaved and caused man to blaspheme the name of God. Its Because of "you peoples" erroneous theology and interpretations have kept mankind from believing the gospel. Read Whence Eternity and this and wake up!!!

It's because people know greek that you can read the NT, because you can't read the language it was written in. Then you turn around and tell people who know greek that you know what a phrase really means, although you can't actually read it.

 

[AK4]

Why is it that you are telling me what a greek phrase means when you don't know greek?

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see what God means in His Word when you are given the spirit. I dont know all the intricates of electronics either but i

A spiritual match? What are you talking about?

EXACTLY!!!!

1 Cor 3:1 And so, brothers and sisters, F16 I could not speak to you as spiritual people, but rather as people of the flesh,

To say that it doesn't clearly violates the greek itself. It says what it says, and "into the eternities of eternities" means "forever."

Ugh do someone have to know greek to be able to research a word a see that that phrase cannot mean into the eternities of eternities

Here do some more research

Etymology of the English word eternity

the English word eternity derived from the Old French word eternite derived from the Latin word aeternitas (eternity, infinite time; immortality) derived from the Classical Latin word aeternus (eternal, everlasting, imperishable) derived from the Latin word aeviternus (eternal, everlasting, imperishable) derived from the Late Latin word aevum (time, time of life, age) derived from the Greek word aion, αἰών (properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future)) derived from the Proto-Indo-European root *aiw-

 

[AK4]

It's because people know greek that you can read the NT, because you can't read the language it was written in. Then you turn around and tell people who know greek that you know what a phrase really means, although you can't actually read it.

And i cant tell you how a television actually works but i can show you how to use it. DUHHHH

 

[Oberon]

And i cant tell you how a television actually works but i can show you how to use it. DUHHHH

Horrible analogy. A better one would be that you don't know how a television works, but you are trying to explain to an engineer how it does.

You can't read the passage, and yet you insist on disagree with those who can. The basis for your claim is that you don't want it to mean what it does.

 

[Oberon]

Ugh do someone have to know greek to be able to research a word a see that that phrase cannot mean into the eternities of eternities.

Apparently. Because you can say that in greek. Again, just like "name to him John" doesn't make any sense, and must be translated into "his name was John," "into the eternities of eternities" doesn't make sense in english, and must be translated into "forever" or some equivalent.

Here do some more research

Etymology of the English word eternity

the English word eternity derived from the Old French word eternite derived from the Latin word aeternitas (eternity, infinite time; immortality) derived from the Classical Latin word aeternus (eternal, everlasting, imperishable) derived from the Latin word aeviternus (eternal, everlasting, imperishable) derived from the Late Latin word aevum (time, time of life, age) derived from the Greek word aion, αἰών (properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future)) derived from the Proto-Indo-European root *aiw-

I know greek and latin, thank you. I have also studied syntactical and lexical reconstructions of PIE.

 

[sojourner]

I pray someone from your congo reads this and

Re 18:4 - Come out of her, my people,
Re 2:9 - I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

You don't have the least idea what I preach, teach, or encourage in my congo. Nor do I have the least inclination to give you this information, lest I be caught casting my pearls before the swine.
I'd advise you to curb your attitude with regard to my congregation.

 

[Oberon]

You don't have the least idea what I preach, teach, or encourage in my congo.

YOUR CONGO!!!? Who gave you the right to claim parts of Africa!? IMPERIALIST!!!!!

 

[AK4]

You don't have the least idea what I preach, teach, or encourage in my congo. Nor do I have the least inclination to give you this information, lest I be caught casting my pearls before the swine.
I'd advise you to curb your attitude with regard to my congregation.

If the unscriptural mess you display here on this forum is what you teach them, then i do know.

Please what pearls? I havent even seen one talent yet. I dont say these things to degrade you or anything but you havent shown one once of spiritual understanding yet.

This is all i see

Mrk 7:6 He said to them, "Isaiah prophesied rightly about you hypocrites, as it is written, "This people honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; 7 in vain do they worship me, teaching human precepts as doctrines.' 8 You abandon the commandment of God and hold to human tradition." 9 Then he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition! ..... 13 thus making void the word of God through your tradition that you have handed on. And you do many things like this."

 

[AK4]

Ugh do someone have to know greek to be able to research a word a see that that phrase cannot mean into the eternities of eternities.

Apparently. Because you can say that in greek. Again, just like "name to him John" doesn't make any sense, and must be translated into "his name was John," "into the eternities of eternities" doesn't make sense in english, and must be translated into "forever" or some equivalent.



I know greek and latin, thank you. I have also studied syntactical and lexical reconstructions of PIE.

Okay now with you syntactical skills, put that "and the smoke of their torment goes up into eternities of the eternities or for ever and ever" together with what is also said of those thrown into the lake of fire which is the second death which is to be the last enemy to be destroyed or as strongs defines it
katargevw[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]from (2596) and (691[/FONT]

1. to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
2. to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
3. to deprive of force, influence, power
4. to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
5. to cease, to pass away, be done away
6. to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
7. to terminate all intercourse with one

Now i know you what all those words mean. So where can for ever and ever of the smoke of their torment syntactically fit into scripture? Ahhh but it does when it is translated ages.

 

[Oberon]

strongs defines it

Strong's doesn't define anything. It is a concordance, not a lexicon. It is meant to give the word as found in the translation, not the definition of the word.

katargevw[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]from (2596) and (691[/FONT]

1. to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
2. to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
3. to deprive of force, influence, power
4. to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
5. to cease, to pass away, be done away
6. to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
7. to terminate all intercourse with one

Now i know you what all those words mean. So where can for ever and ever of the smoke of their torment syntactically fit into scripture?

I don't think you know what syntactically means.

However, as I said before, the literal translation doesn't make sense in english, so you have to get the meaning, which is for ever and ever. And according to Rev. 20:10, this place is the lake of fire.

The verse reads kai ho diabolos ho planon autous eblethe eis ten limnen tou pyros kai theiou hopou kai to therion kai ho pseudoprophetes, kai basanisthesontai hemeras kai nyktos eis tous aionas ton aionon/ and the devil, the one leading them astray, was thrown into the lake of fire, and they will/shall be tortured forever.

 

[sojourner]

Your right. It is orthodox and orthodox teaches the heresy of the trinity along with what seems like countless other unscriptural doctrines/garbage! Its sad because my 5 year old daughter can understand how the whole trinity thing makes no sense yet you and theologians and the "church" cant see it how utterly false this doctrine is. Its you and theologians and the "church who claim to have so much knowledge who know nothing of the scriptures.

Orthodox is orthodox. We don't need to explain, aplogize or defend the Faith to malcontents. If ya don't like us, that's wholly your problem -- not ours.

Dont you know what the scriptures teach on physical rituals when you think by doing them itll save you? Do you?!! You obviously don't know what the words "worship in spirit and truth" means, let alone just the word worship and what it entails. You obviously don’t know what Jesus meant at Passover about partaking of the bread and wine. You obviously don’t know what Jesus meant when He said His words are spirit. You know nothing of spiritual.

Your ignorance is showing. One could almost say that you're guilty of indecent exposure! I don't know what you believe in your little fantasy world about worship and what the word means (nor do I care to be frightened in such a way!), but you obviously have no idea what you're talking about if you think worship doesn't entail physical ritual. Indeed, worship is built on a foundation of ritual -- it has to be, or it wouldn't, by definition, be worship.

It really is sad to see someone so passionate about their spirituality so angry and defensive. Anger and defensiveness aren't hallmarks of spiritual maturity.

And I think you stated that wrong. you should have put the trinity is not scriptural.

No, I stated it exactly as I meant to. The problem here isn't with my choice of words; the problem is you're statment, "I think."

 

[sojourner]

If the unscriptural mess you display here on this forum is what you teach them, then i do know.

An overblown sense of knowledge is a sure sign of ignorance.

Please what pearls? I havent even seen one talent yet.

Exactly my point. Thank you. The value would be utterly wasted, because the swine don't recognize the value.

I dont say these things to degrade you or anything

I'll bet you've got some lovely swamp land you'd be willing to sell me, too.

you havent shown one once of spiritual understanding yet.

As I said: Pearls before swine.

This is all i see

Mrk 7:6 He said to them, "Isaiah prophesied rightly about you hypocrites, as it is written, "This people honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; 7 in vain do they worship me, teaching human precepts as doctrines.' 8 You abandon the commandment of God and hold to human tradition." 9 Then he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition! ..... 13 thus making void the word of God through your tradition that you have handed on. And you do many things like this."

Since the passage you reference isn't cogent to your argument, all you really see is ...
nothing at all. Because the log in your eye is so freakin' huge.

 

[Oberon]

I'll bet you've got some lovely swamp land you'd be willing to sell me, too.

I heard bridge...

 

[sojourner]

Strong's doesn't define anything. It is a concordance, not a lexicon. It is meant to give the word as found in the translation, not the definition of the word.

I don't think you know what syntactically means.

However, as I said before, the literal translation doesn't make sense in english, so you have to get the meaning, which is for ever and ever. And according to Rev. 20:10, this place is the lake of fire.

The verse reads kai ho diabolos ho planon autous eblethe eis ten limnen tou pyros kai theiou hopou kai to therion kai ho pseudoprophetes, kai basanisthesontai hemeras kai nyktos eis tous aionas ton aionon/ and the devil, the one leading them astray, was thrown into the lake of fire, and they will/shall be tortured forever.

Hmm. My Greek/English translates aionas ton aionon as "ages of ages." But the NRSV reads forever and ever. It seems to me that the translation is cogent to the transliteration here.

 

[sojourner]

YOUR CONGO!!!? Who gave you the right to claim parts of Africa!? IMPERIALIST!!!!!

Watch out! The natives are getting restless.

:tribal2:

 

[Oberon]

Hmm. My Greek/English translates aionas ton aionon as "ages of ages." But the NRSV reads forever and ever. It seems to me that the translation is cogent to the transliteration here.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I feel pretty sure you know Greek (I know for a fact that you have studied NT scholarship from previous posts, and I seem to recall you either stating or showing a knowledge of greek)?

aion in the singular is generally used for a specific period of time (an age). With certain prepositions (e.g. dia) you can use the plural to refer to time through various ages. Here, however, we have eis with the accusative plural, indicating a length of time lasting into eternity (i.e. into the ages, without limit). Furthermore, to emphasize this sense of eternity, the author adds the genitive of aion, which adds to the sense of an infinite length of time. It is possible to translate the phrase as "into the ages of ages" but this is more ambiguous (and nonsensical) in English than in the greek phrase. So, just like "name to him John" is translated as "his name was John" it is better (if you want to get the sense of the clause across) to translate the phrase in such a way as to make its eternal nature clear.

 

[sojourner]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I feel pretty sure you know Greek (I know for a fact that you have studied NT scholarship from previous posts, and I seem to recall you either stating or showing a knowledge of greek)?

aion in the singular is generally used for a specific period of time (an age). With certain prepositions (e.g. dia) you can use the plural to refer to time through various ages. Here, however, we have eis with the accusative plural, indicating a length of time lasting into eternity (i.e. into the ages, without limit). Furthermore, to emphasize this sense of eternity, the author adds the genitive of aion, which adds to the sense of an infinite length of time. It is possible to translate the phrase as "into the ages of ages" but this is more ambiguous (and nonsensical) in English than in the greek phrase. So, just like "name to him John" is translated as "his name was John" it is better (if you want to get the sense of the clause across) to translate the phrase in such a way as to make its eternal nature clear.

I wish I were more familiar with Greek. I haven't studied it formally, but my NT prof relies on it in his teaching. I know enough to know that we have to be careful with the translation and go to the Greek in order to be precise. But your explanation makes a whole lot of sense. The transliteration certainly doesn't have the impact that the translation does, which is often the case. The problem is that those who haven't dealt with Greek, or with intensive Bible study, tend to treat the translation as a transliteration, and seem distrustful of anything that isn't "word-for-word" ... which is a big mistake.

 

[AK4]

Orthodox is orthodox. We don't need to explain, aplogize or defend the Faith to malcontents. If ya don't like us, that's wholly your problem -- not ours.

Its not that i dont like yall, for you guys are also called and i too was onced decieved just the same as you.

Your ignorance is showing. One could almost say that you're guilty of indecent exposure! I don't know what you believe in your little fantasy world about worship and what the word means (nor do I care to be frightened in such a way!), but you obviously have no idea what you're talking about if you think worship doesn't entail physical ritual. Indeed, worship is built on a foundation of ritual -- it has to be, or it wouldn't, by definition, be worship.

Really? Have you read about Jesus and what He accomplished? Have you read what it says in the OT about how the Lord feels about sacrifices and offerings and their sabbaths? Have you read how Paul said of rituals? You got all these witnesses against you including Jesus saying to worship in spirit, yet you think doing the physical ritual is the true worship. Geez You think taking of the physical bread and wine is the true worship of Passover?! You have no clue what it means to eat the bread and drink the wine do you? And you probably believe you do this once a year. Please your spiritual ignorance for being a "teacher" "pastor" or "minister" is appalling.

It really is sad to see someone so passionate about their spirituality so angry and defensive. Anger and defensiveness aren't hallmarks of spiritual maturity.

Ha, not angry, at least on my behalf. Im angry for the people who actually listen to you and think you have spiritual knowledge. And by far i am not even close to being on the defensive. I am still waiting on you to quote scripture in your rebuttals. Gee i wonder why?

No, I stated it exactly as I meant to. The problem here isn't with my choice of words; the problem is you're statment, "I think."

Yup maybe one day you should try it.

 

[AK4]

An overblown sense of knowledge is a sure sign of ignorance.

LOL and i quote

"We people" are the ones who make it possible for "you people" to read the Bible in English, in the first place." and "lest I be caught casting my pearls before the swine."

Didnt you also mention about all your schooling and awards and degrees you have earned and said something about me not having them. HMMMMMMMM :foot::foot:

Exactly my point. Thank you. The value would be utterly wasted, because the swine don't recognize the value.

You havent even quoted scripture yet! You cant match the Word of God with any of the spew that is coming out of your "mouth".

I'll bet you've got some lovely swamp land you'd be willing to sell me, too.

No just a stimulus package thatll blow your mind away

As I said: Pearls before swine.

And so, one of your "pearls" is the belief in a fabled trinity. Now is that a pearl or a rotten fish egg.

Since the passage you reference isn't cogent to your argument, all you really see is ...
nothing at all. Because the log in your eye is so freakin' huge

Exactly, you wouldnt know what that passage means because you dont want to give up your traditions and your orthodoxy beliefs so you could actually come to the knowledge of the truth. buuuuut.......


Joh 3:19 - ..... men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

 

[sojourner]

Its not that i dont like yall, for you guys are also called and i too was onced decieved just the same as you.

We are our faith...

Really? Have you read about Jesus and what He accomplished?

Time and again.

Have you read what it says in the OT about how the Lord feels about sacrifices and offerings and their sabbaths?

Not cogent to this particular topic of worship.

Have you read how Paul said of rituals?

Once again, not cogent here.

You got all these witnesses against you including Jesus saying to worship in spirit, yet you think doing the physical ritual is the true worship.

Who says we don't worship in spirit? Ritual is part of worship just as framework is part of a building.

You think taking of the physical bread and wine is the true worship of Passover?!

No, but I think that the taking of Christ's Body and Blood is the central act of our worship of God, through Christ.

You have no clue what it means to eat the bread and drink the wine do you?

More than you could possibly fathom.

And you probably believe you do this once a year.

Nope. At least once a week.

Please your spiritual ignorance for being a "teacher" "pastor" or "minister" is appalling.

It's rather the assumptions you make in your ignorance of me that's appalling.

Im angry for the people who actually listen to you and think you have spiritual knowledge.

As I said: You're angry.

And by far i am not even close to being on the defensive.

You're on the attack. As they say, the best defense is a strong offense...

I am still waiting on you to quote scripture in your rebuttals. Gee i wonder why?

I'm still waiting on a proper interpretation of scripture from you in your rebuttals. Gee, I wonder why?

maybe one day you should try it.

Not like you, I won't!

"We people" are the ones who make it possible for "you people" to read the Bible in English, in the first place."

M'Kay. In what way is it overblown to say that those who know Greek make it possible for those who don't to read their New Testaments in English?

"lest I be caught casting my pearls before the swine."

Well, gee! There's a scriptural quotation for ya, and you don't like it!
I've given you lots of pearls and you haven't recognized the value. What's overblown about that?

Didnt you also mention about all your schooling and awards and degrees you have earned and said something about me not having them. HMMMMMMMM :foot::foot:

You asked for the resume, and I furnished the information. Facts, not overblown fiction.

You havent even quoted scripture yet!

I don't intend to, because it wouldn't do any good in a mudslinging match.

You cant match the Word of God with any of the spew that is coming out of your "mouth".

A real good example of the pot calling the kettle "black."

No just a stimulus package thatll blow your mind away

Been there, done that, baptized the T-shirt.

And so, one of your "pearls" is the belief in a fabled trinity.

No, one of my pearls is the real Trinity. I have no idea what a "fabled" trinity might be...

Now is that a pearl or a rotten fish egg.

A "fabled trinity" might, indeed, be a rotten egg. However, the Trinity is a pearl, to be sure.

Exactly, you wouldnt know what that passage means because you dont want to give up your traditions and your orthodoxy beliefs so you could actually come to the knowledge of the truth. buuuuut.......


Joh 3:19 - .....men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Actually, I do know what the passage means, and it don't mean what you think it does. Nor does the John passage here. You'll have to provide an example of one deed of mine that could be rightly termed "evil."
::taps foot -- looks at watch -- listens to "Jeopardy" theme for a while::
I thought not...