Richard Dawkin

[Naturalist_Atheist]

Well, let's see. You're here talking about it, are you not?


I could ask the same.

Excuse me. Perhaps there is confusion. I did not mean literally keep it to your personal self. This forum is specifically made for these types of discussions. I don't think Dawkins would be against this site or sites like it. And I don't think he would be against people of the same religious beliefs attending churches or other eventswith like minded people. What I feel he's saying is keep it amongst yourselves. Don't come to my door telling me I'll be going to hell for not reading your new issue of The WatchTower. Don't put your beliefs in my public schools or on my nations currency. Don't use your religious ideals to promote government policy change. Don't envoke your magical God to undermine the rights of others.

If Christianity stayed in the Christian churches I don't feel there would even be a problem. And Dawkins would never have bothered to write his book The God Delusion in the first place.

To rephrase the question, What devine infallible agenda have the irreligious pushed?

 

[Storm]

Excuse me. Perhaps there is confusion. I did not mean literally keep it to your personal self. This forum is specifically made for these types of discussions. I don't think Dawkins would be against this site or sites like it. And I don't think he would be against people of the same religious beliefs attending churches or other eventswith like minded people.

Ah, I see. Yes, it was a miscommunication.

What I feel he's saying is keep it amongst yourselves. Don't come to my door telling me I'll be going to hell for not reading your new issue of The WatchTower. Don't put your beliefs in my public schools or on my nations currency. Don't use your religious ideals to promote government policy change. Don't envoke your magical God to undermine the rights of others.

I don't do any such thing. My religion's agenda is quite different.

• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
• The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

I wonder, do you think we should keep THAT to ourselves? I don't.

If Christianity stayed in the Christian churches I don't feel there would even be a problem. And Dawkins would never have bothered to write his book The God Delusion in the first place.

Sorry, I support religious freedom, even when I disagree with them. What do you support?

To rephrase the question, What devine infallible agenda have the irreligious pushed?

It's a nonsense question, due to the qualifiers. However, the irreligious have their agendas, too. We all do. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[darkendless]

If Christianity stayed in the Christian churches I don't feel there would even be a problem. And Dawkins would never have bothered to write his book The God Delusion in the first place.

Unfortunately we have what's called religious freedom as Storm said. I hate it and i hate seeing the hallmark of christianity everywhere, but for most of us it is entwined in our origins. What ticks me off is that if i were to hypothetically open a church of satan and place an upside down cross out the front, it would be shocking and distasteful. Thats the mindset people have. Nothing other than Christianity is acceptable if you want to preach it to the public. Well thats the case where i am. I think its sad but there isnt a lot you can do about it.

 

[Storm]

Do you really think that having religious freedom is "unfortunate?"

 

[darkendless]

Do you really think that having religious freedom is "unfortunate?"

Yes. Because there isn't much of a chance to have freedom from religion where i live. SO many signs around saying "Jesus is the answer."
I also wouldn't call it freedom given my above example. It simply would not be tolerated in my community because of the mindset of the people.

 

[Storm]

Freedom OF religion is not freedom FROM religion. The latter is not possible without limiting the former. However, as an atheist, I'd think you'd be grateful for legal protection. As a religious minority myself, I certainly am.

 

[darkendless]

Freedom OF religion is not freedom FROM religion. The latter is not possible without limiting the former. However, as an atheist, I'd think you'd be grateful for legal protection. As a religious minority myself, I certainly am.

Then again try setting up a religion for something like satanism in a public place and see how long it you to get takes you to get arrested Religious freedom is religious freedom when you're promoting a "public friendly" religion like Christianity. So its not really freedom, its conditional. I think it should be limited, that way, we aren't harassed by missionaries. I'd be even more ticked off if i was of a particular religion and a missionary told me i was wrong and that his/her God was the only path to whatever. I don't want beliefs restricted, only public activity like what i specified above. Its not really doing much other than harassing the public.

 

[Storm]

Then again try setting up a religion for something like satanism in a public place and see how long it you to get takes you to get arrested

Uh, that would be illegal. The Church of Satan is alive and well.

Religious freedom is religious freedom when you're promoting a "public friendly" religion like Christianity. So its not really freedom, its conditional.

Maybe in Australia, I don't know. Not here.

I think it should be limited, that way, we aren't harassed by missionaries. I'd be even more ticked off if i was of a particular religion and a missionary told me i was wrong and that his/her God was the only path to whatever. I don't want beliefs restricted, only public activity like what i specified above.
Its not really doing much other than harassing the public.

So, on the one hand you whine about being restricted. On the other, you want to restrict others. There's a word for that... :run:

 

[Sunstone]

Freedom OF religion is not freedom FROM religion.

There's no genuine freedom of religion without freedom from religion. Unless you can be free from religion (e.g. be an atheist), you do not have genuine freedom of religion.

 

[Apex]

Then again try setting up a religion for something like satanism in a public place and see how long it you to get takes you to get arrested

Please show us an example of this.

 

[darkendless]

Uh, that would be illegal. The Church of Satan is alive and well.


Maybe in Australia, I don't know. Not here.


So, on the one hand you whine about being restricted. On the other, you want to restrict others. There's a word for that... :run:

Im not restricted. Im just saying that hypothetically in our current situation, i would be arrested or told to go away because its not christianity. I do not want to promote religion of any kind because i think its a waste of time when 99% of people don't care what you have to say.

If i could i'd vote for freedom from religion i would. I think Churches do not need to promote, if anyone needs the church they will seek it out.

 

[Storm]

There's no genuine freedom of religion without freedom from religion. Unless you can be free from religion (e.g. be an atheist), you do not have genuine freedom of religion.

The right to atheism (freedom of religion) does NOT include the right to suppress the religious' free expression of their religion(s). The latter is not compatible with the former, and the former is morally superior.

 

[Storm]

Im not restricted.

If you could be arrested for it, that's restriction. Of course, I rather suspect you're exaggerating.

Im just saying that hypothetically in our current situation, i would be arrested or told to go away because its not christianity.

Being unpopular is not the same as legal persecution. Which is it?

 

[Apex]

Im not restricted. Im just saying that hypothetically in our current situation, i would be arrested or told to go away because its not christianity. I do not want to promote religion of any kind because i think its a waste of time when 99% of people don't care what you have to say.

If i could i'd vote for freedom from religion i would. I think Churches do not need to promote, if anyone needs the church they will seek it out.

I am so pleased that you would merrily dance on our rights as you grind them into the dirt.

 

[darkendless]

If you could be arrested for it, that's restriction. Of course, I rather suspect you're exaggerating.


Being unpopular is not the same as legal persecution. Which is it?

Come to Australia and try it then. If you were to do it in the centre of Brisbane i suspect you will incur infraction you did not know existed and find yourself getting kicked out of the police station in 15 minutes. All you have to do is be very loud. I've seen monks being arrested because apparently they trampled public property I have a gut feeling satanism would recieve a similiar response. Police here are slack, they'll find an infraction just to get you to go away. I've been arrested 6 times on about 17 charges, all of which were strangely dropped without an interview.

Of course i do not have proof because im not a religious person and i dont preach for my right to preach, but then again, i live here, you don't.

 

[darkendless]

I am so pleased that you would merrily dance on our rights as you grind them into the dirt.

Similiar rights your church actively tried to deny homosexuals?

I don't want to stop your beliefs or anything, only your people comming to my University and to my house trying to convert me.

 

[Storm]

I'll take your word for it that Australia doesn't actually offer freedom of religion in practice. However, that's a problem with Australia, not freedom of religion.

 

[Apex]

Similiar rights your church actively tried to deny homosexuals?

So two wrongs make a right. Gotch' ya.

I don't want to stop your beliefs or anything, only your people comming to my University and to my house trying to convert me.

Here is some useful advice, ask them to leave. Magically, they will leave. Problem solved.

 

[darkendless]

I'll take your word for it that Australia doesn't actually offer freedom of religion in practice. However, that's a problem with Australia, not freedom of religion.

Police are sensitive to public disturbances. My guess is satanism is a public disturbance to most people. Hence they will do whatever they can to get anyone preaching satanism to move on. I suspect there would be a public backlash if anyone tried to sue the police for denying them religious freedom. As of yet no one has tried, and i dont think anyone really cares. I was speaking in a hypothetical sistuation.

 

[darkendless]

So two wrongs make a right. Gotch' ya.

Here is some useful advice, ask them to leave. Magically, they will leave. Problem solved.

You can't whine about your rights when you easily deny them to others, thats the point im making.

The point is i don't like them there in the first place. Hence my want for freedom from religion.