A question for creationists.

[painted wolf]

rfrank... you realize that the only difference between your idea of evolution (however incorrect it is) is only two bits of reasoning off from Genesis.

Replace soup with dust and millions of years with one day. Add a touch of god and ta-da you have Genesis.

Is it really that different? or unbelievable?

wa:do

 

[Aishikyo]

If you believe evolution, I believe that you are a sinner !

Do you know the origins of life according to Evolution ?
From the Book of Darwin Ch 1;
v.1 In the beginning there was nothing
Then some nothings got together and became something
v.2 Then something exploded ( the “big bang” )
Millions of years passed by.
As the gaseous remains of the “big bang” spread out
Some of it became galaxies, stars, and planets
v.3 Millions of years passed by.
On the planets it rained and it rained
v.4 Millions of years passed by.
Some rocks dissolved into puddles,
And this became the primordial soup
v.5 Millions of years passed by.
Something in the soup decided to be life
v.6 Millions of years passed by.
This “life” mutated and mutated and
v.7 Millions of years passed by.
this is where ALL life comes from!

Yeah Right!

Give me the Genesis account of CREATION as it is much more believable.

May God bless you as you study His Word

<))><

What exactly is so unbelievable about something completely logical?
Why would one be a sinner for believing in something logical?

 

[roli]

(All comments are welcome in this thread, but I would ask that only creationists vote in the poll.)

Is believing in evolution a sin?

No!...God often used the scientific wonder found in creation to make a point.

In other words do you believe that “God” commands you not to accept the theory of evolution?

No !!!, but when it takes him out of the equation and makes it,"evolution" or any other thing , including man himself to be god

Do you believe that “God” requires you to stand firm in a creationists viewpoint.

I believe God gives us knowledge and the ability to use it to improve our enviroment in hope that we will see the heavens and how they declare his wonderous works, but does not force any man to bow to creation.
I think intellect,reason and observation say there is a intelligent designer behind the complexities around us far before scientific analysis discover it.
He actually speaks through Paul when he says, "Rom 1 "God's invisibale attributes are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made so that men will be without excuse on judgment day"
God is not a dictator, nor does force anyone, the truth is there in such simplicity that even a child can enter heaven.
Mark 10:15 Unless you receive the kingdom of God as a child ,you will in no way enter it.
Finding GOD is available to all those who are not afraid to find him or to embarassed to call on him.And you certainly don't have a Harvard Education!!

Or do you believe that it would be acceptable to believe in the theory of evolution if the evidence were sufficient to convince you

If the theory OF evolution your referring to has to do with species and how they change, then I believe it, but to speak of natural selection, random chance ,non living evolving into living ,than that to me is intellectual sabotage.

The evidence for creation is indeed under a microscope, but it's also plainly before the eyes of those who care to look and that will include with their heart, but that I must freely confess, may be a problem for some.

 

[Runlikethewind]

I haven’t gotten an answer yet, from you or any other creationist.....The question, if you missed it, is this: “Is believing in evolution a sin?”

Since no one has really addressed the question at hand I will. First let me agree whole heartedly with Storm

You know what gets my goat? The fact that "Creationism" has become synonymous with YEC and ID.

Really, anyone who believes that the cosmos was Created is a Creationist, including myself. But I can't call myself one, becuause those idiots have been allowed to dominate the conversation.

Creationism has gotten a bad name from certain circles. I am a creationist and I accept the theory of evolution and so I voted that it is not a sin. However, I think that under certain circumstances it might be a sin. Father Heathen brings up an interesting point that I will use to illustrate how accepting evolution might become sinful.

But the concept of god and the theory of evolution aren't mutually exclusive. In fact I only see them being in conflict if someone believes in a literal interpretation of scripture. I don't see why a god couldn't have used evolution as a continuous creation process.

I agree that the concept of a creator God and the concept of evolution are not mutually exclusive but that all lies in how you approach the two. Father Heathen rightly points out that a hyper-literalistic approach to scripture can result in problems. So one needs to have a proper understanding/interpretation of both creation and evolution in order for it to work without conflict.

The theory of evolution and science in general often comes with a philosophy of materialism that is opposed to theism. This is where accepting the theory of evolution might become sinful. If accepting the theory of evolution requires that one also accept a purely materialistic form of natural selection as the driving mechanism meaning that God is not somehow involved as creator, then there might be some form of sin involved there, depending on the circumstances and the person(s) involved. God must somehow be involved in the process of creation.

Someone asked earlier if God was also involved in electromagnetism and other scientific principles. I would have to say yes. If you then asked me how God was involved in these things I would have to say "what's that over there?!?!?!" in order to distract you while I ran away since I don't really have a good answer. I could pose another question though, if God is somehow involved in evolution, electromagnetism, gravity, etc then what exactly would that involvement look like? How could we tell the difference between the action of God and the actions of matter? would they appear identical? Maybe, I don't know.

 

[Halcyon]

v.1 In the beginning there was a fully conscious, sentient, thinking entity, despite that entity not having a brain. The entity didn't come from anywhere, it just decided to exist one day.

v.2 Then the entity made some light, there wasn't any stars yet so presumably it first designed a hydroelectric power plant using the water it removed from outer space and powered some light bulbs.

v.3 Then the entity separated some water it found from some other water, and in the middle there was dry land. (presumably it took the higher water away, otherwise our astronauts would have needed submarines).

v.4 Then he told trees and other plants to spring up from the land (kinda odd since there is no sun, nor the necessary soil nutrients to support higher plant life yet, but never mind).

v.5 The the entity made the stars, the sun and the moon (finally! the Earth was getting a bit cold, and the plants were finding it hard to grow seeing as the air was a chilly -273 degrees).

v.6 Then the entity spontaneously produced some birds (all frugivores of course, which meant the birds of prey got a bit bored, berries don't run very fast). Then he made some fishes and other sea beasties, he even gave some of the whales tiny legs, which was pointless but nice.

v.7 Then he made the land animals (which kinda makes you wonder what pollinated all the fruit bearing trees, perhaps there were some very exhausted angels at the end of the sixth day?) And finally he got some clay together, blew on it and man popped into life, the entity performed some unnecessary yet invasive surgery and genetically engineered for the male a female.

v.8 The entity had a nap, it had been a long 144 hours. You have to wonder exactly why the entity needed to rest, being a super powerful being with neither muscles nor brain needing regeneration, but hey, some things are just a mystery.


You're right rfrank, creationism does make more sense.

 

[Luminous]

The theory of evolution is our(or my) current believe on creation. Creationism is the 2000+ year old jewish theory on creation. the jews used to think that God loved the smell of burning calf. Catholics used to think the moon was a perfect sphere and they didn't like it when Galaleo Galalei proved them wrong. they didn't apologies for lying until 300 years passed. there is more evidence for the theory of evolution and there for it must be assumed true for now. one's believes should hold the least amount of assumptions as possible.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

the jews used to think that God loved the smell of burning calf.

You haven't the foggiest idea about what "jews used to think."

 

[Luminous]

You haven't the foggiest idea about what "jews used to think."

It is evident from the old testament that jewish cleriks spouted this lies to their followers.
creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9.

 

[rfrank]

Bye bye !

See you when you get resurrected.

Probably 1000 years after my resurrection - - L O L

 

[Renazure]

Um...no, it's a science. It's called a scientific theory.

Evolutionists are more than prepared to change their belief. That's the beauty of science. All it does is take the evidence we have and use it to formulate theories and laws. The best part about it is that fact that it is completely open to change. If new evidence comes along to disprove a current conclusion, that conclusion is thrown out. That's the biggest difference between science and religion. Science is more than willing to admit it's wrong and is always searching for new answers. Many organized religions think they already have all the answers and no further research is necessary.

The bottom line is that evolution is science. It is a belief, of course, but it's quite different from a religious belief.

Yeah, i agree Evolution is definitly a science not a religion. There is insurmountable evidence supporting Evolutionisim. What evidence is there supporting creationisim? hm? a senile old man preaching in a church supporting a religion that butchered thousands of people (Mainly women) for practicing a religion that differed from theirs!

No offence... but thats just what i think. :foot::foot::foot:

ps( rfrank, you should just give up before you make yourself look even stupider...)

 

[darkendless]

If you believe evolution, I believe that you are a sinner !

Do you know the origins of life according to Evolution ?
From the Book of Darwin Ch 1;
v.1 In the beginning there was nothing
Then some nothings got together and became something
v.2 Then something exploded ( the “big bang” )
Millions of years passed by.
As the gaseous remains of the “big bang” spread out
Some of it became galaxies, stars, and planets
v.3 Millions of years passed by.
On the planets it rained and it rained
v.4 Millions of years passed by.
Some rocks dissolved into puddles,
And this became the primordial soup
v.5 Millions of years passed by.
Something in the soup decided to be life
v.6 Millions of years passed by.
This “life” mutated and mutated and
v.7 Millions of years passed by.
this is where ALL life comes from!

Yeah Right!

Give me the Genesis account of CREATION as it is much more believable.

May God bless you as you study His Word

<))><

As a New Zealander i expected you to be more logical in your reasoning. The education isnt that bad champ.

Creation is garbage, "God did this and God did that" stands for lack of human understanding, and ignorance. Rather than searching for answers you simply give up and attribute everything to God. That's disappointing that you refute logical scientific evidence, it really is. May your God have mercy on your lack of reasoning

 

[dawny0826]

(All comments are welcome in this thread, but I would ask that only creationists vote in the poll.)

Is believing in evolution a sin? In other words do you believe that &#8220;God&#8221; commands you not to accept the theory of evolution? Do you believe that &#8220;God&#8221; requires you to stand firm in a creationists viewpoint.

Or do you believe that it would be acceptable to believe in the theory of evolution if the evidence were sufficient to convince you.

I don't see how it could be a sin.

I believe that God is the origin of all life. I accept the bible's account of how the earth came to be but it makes sense to me that creation took place over a long span of time and that changes occurred to creation, during that time frame.

Believing that evolution was part of God's creative process makes Creation no less amazing or believable, in my honest opinion.

 

[Caladan]

It is evident from the old testament that jewish cleriks spouted this lies to their followers.
creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9.

“What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says the Lord; I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats. “When you come to appear before me, who has required of you this trampling of my courts? Bring no more vain offerings;

~Isaiah, Hebrew bible

 

[life.is.ravishing]

Is believing in evolution a sin? In other words do you believe that &#8220;God&#8221; commands you not to accept the theory of evolution? Do you believe that &#8220;God&#8221; requires you to stand firm in a creationists viewpoint.

Or do you believe that it would be acceptable to believe in the theory of evolution if the evidence were sufficient to convince you.

I don't believe God really "requires" us to do anything but love and accept him. While I think obviously he would like us to believe in the Creation, he did give us free will, and thus, the ability to believe in evolution.

If the evidence of evolution was enough to convince you, knowing the alternative, and that's a theory you choose to follow, I think God's alright with it. Not happy, maybe, but alright. He knew what he was doing when he gave us free will.

And, in the end, God already knew if each of us was going to believe evolution or not. It's something he's already accounted for.

 

[Evandr]

Have any of you ever been on an Easter egg hunt when you were small? I have and I truly believed in the Easter bunny by virtue of all the eggs that I discovered.

Could it be that all that science has put together is like the Easter eggs that have been put there for us to discover and we are attributing that to evolution and not God the same way children attribute Easter eggs to the Easter bunny and not the parents who really put them there.

In order for us to prove our faithfulness to God we have to be given the opportunity to choose and for that to happen there has to be something else to choose from say... evolutionary theory.

There is plenty of evidence to support the existence of God and yes, although there can be arguments for the evolutionist to cling to, there are just too many assumptions made to avoid the evolutionist theory being degraded at every level.

I believe that we are discovering new things every day and I also believe that these things have a logical place in creation and that it is our own ignorance that prevents us from seeing the beginning from the end.

Using what we have been given to discover about our world to discredit the existence of a creator is like using Easter eggs to discredit the roll of our parents in the whole show.

Evandr

 

[UnTheist]

In order for us to prove our faithfulness to God we have to be given the opportunity to choose and for that to happen there has to be something else to choose from say... evolutionary theory.

What other theories do you have? Why must we choose something else when evolution is scientifically sound?

There is plenty of evidence to support the existence of God

There is no evidence whatsoever supporting the existence of your god.

although there can be arguments for the evolutionist to cling to, there are just too many assumptions made to avoid the evolutionist theory being degraded at every level.

What assumptions?

 

[Evandr]

What other theories do you have? Why must we choose something else when evolution is scientifically sound?

I will admit that one must believe in God to understand the concept of free agency and the need for choice to fulfill the purposes of God. It sounds like you have made yours, although unwittingly, you are falling in line and are being tried just like the rest of us, difference being that you simply choose not to see the obvious.

There is no evidence whatsoever supporting the existence of your god.

Tell Albert Einstein that. Many years ago, Addressing a large group in Berkley, Calif., professor Einstein declared that the further he delved into the sciences of the universe, the more completely he was convinced that there was some force of intelligence, or "God" that had organized it and placed it there for our discovery. Professor Einstein is certainly not alone in this view of the universe amongst his peers.To put it in plain terms, the concept of "chance" being the founding cause of all creation is so astronomically small that Professor Einstein declared that it could be said to be non-existent. The supporting factors of creationism can be found in every particle of our existence from the massive complexities of the smallest neutron the organization and very existence of the greatest galaxies.

What assumptions?

Everything about creationism is an assumption when you consider that they are based on facts and findings wrought of man and his infinitely limited intellectual capacity (compared to our Heavenly Father). I believe that the sound of surprise spouted by half of those evolutionists when they are given all the information about creation will be deafening and matched only by the sound of the other half lamenting their own foolishness.

 

[camanintx]

To put it in plain terms, the concept of "chance" being the founding cause of all creation is so astronomically small that Professor Einstein declared that it could be said to be non-existent.

First, not all atheists will say that everything came to be because of "chance". Second, since no one (not even Einstein) knows how everything came to be, it is senseless to attempt to assign probabilities to it's likelihood.

 

[Evandr]

First, not all atheists will say that everything came to be because of "chance". Second, since no one (not even Einstein) knows how everything came to be, it is senseless to attempt to assign probabilities to it's likelihood.

Why is that? Mathmatics and it's relationship to the universe is the one constant that cannot be explained away. In fact, it is mathmatics that is the underlying driving force behind the evolutionary theory. If what you say is indeed true than there is no rhym or reason to anything including the concept of evolution. Me thinks you just shot yourself in the foot!

 

[camanintx]

Why is that? Mathmatics and it's relationship to the universe is the one constant that cannot be explained away. In fact, it is mathmatics that is the underlying driving force behind the evolutionary theory. If what you say is indeed true than there is no rhym or reason to anything including the concept of evolution. Me thinks you just shot yourself in the foot!

Since mathematics is just a tool developed to explain the universe which we experience, I would think the relationship would be obvious.