Zen meditation groups and big people

[Riders]

I went and visited a new Zen group I hadn't been too. I was very brave. Zen sittings quite often include sitting on the floor and no chairs. I weigh 308 pounds. Ive lost from 341 originally. I called ahead of time they said they had chairs. But I wasn't sure theyd be big enough for me and I was scared to go down there.

I was scared Id show up and the chairs wouldn't be big enough and thered be no place to sit. they would've called 911 for me yikes! No but the metal chairs were hard enough and sturdy enough so I was proud of myself.

However the question is, should Zen centers and groups do more to take in big people like add chairs that will hold big folks?

 

[Ingledsva]

I went and visited a new Zen group I hadn't been too. I was very brave. Zen sittings quite often include sitting on the floor and no chairs. I weigh 308 pounds. Ive lost from 341 originally. I called ahead of time they said they had chairs. But I wasn't sure theyd be big enough for me and I was scared to go down there.

I was scared Id show up and the chairs wouldn't be big enough and thered be no place to sit. they would've called 911 for me yikes! No but the metal chairs were hard enough and sturdy enough so I was proud of myself.

However the question is, should Zen centers and groups do more to take in big people like add chairs that will hold big folks?

Yep! and people with back problems, and the handicapped, etc.

There is no real reason to sit cross-legged on the floor to meditate.

I always meditate in my most comfortable chair, - thus back-strain, aches and pains, and limbs going dead, are not a distraction to my meditation.

*

 

[Twilight Hue]

I went and visited a new Zen group I hadn't been too. I was very brave. Zen sittings quite often include sitting on the floor and no chairs. I weigh 308 pounds. Ive lost from 341 originally. I called ahead of time they said they had chairs. But I wasn't sure theyd be big enough for me and I was scared to go down there.

I was scared Id show up and the chairs wouldn't be big enough and thered be no place to sit. they would've called 911 for me yikes! No but the metal chairs were hard enough and sturdy enough so I was proud of myself.

However the question is, should Zen centers and groups do more to take in big people like add chairs that will hold big folks?

Zafus and Zabutons shouldn't really present an issue for heavier people unless the group is using alternatives as sitting aids that cause strain. Chairs are typically "last resort" but should be available for those who encounter problems and issues conventionally.

Calling in beforehand was a good idea. I'm glad things turned out well enough. :0)

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yep! and people with back problems, and the handicapped, etc.

There is no real reason to sit cross-legged on the floor to meditate.

I always meditate in my most comfortable chair, - thus back-strain, aches and pains, and limbs going dead, are not a distraction to my meditation.

*

Position is just as critical.

There are always going to be sensations like pain and aches present. Too much comfort will be detrimental for a proper practice, body/mind, yet too much pain and discomfort is of no benefit either.


Most experiences with lotus tend to be initally uncomfortable, yet once acclimated, It's likely the most comfortable and natural position one can engage. Its a position that has been refined and used for many centuries with countless people of all body types and most can get there givin enough time aside from any clear medical limitations.

 

[Ingledsva]

Position is just as critical.

There are always going to be sensations like pain and aches present. Too much comfort will be detrimental for a proper practice, body/mind, yet too much pain and discomfort is of no benefit either.

Most experiences with lotus tend to be initally uncomfortable, yet once acclimated, It's likely the most comfortable and natural position one can engage. Its a position that has been refined and used for many centuries with countless people of all body types and most can get there givin enough time aside from any clear medical limitations.

None of which negates -

There is no real reason to sit cross-legged on the floor to meditate.

*

 

[Twilight Hue]

None of which negates -

There is no real reason to sit cross-legged on the floor to meditate.

*

That all depends if you want to "cheat" or not. ;0)

 

[psychoslice]

Actually sitting on the floor or chair makes do difference, there is no one sitting in Zen.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

There is no real reason to sit cross-legged on the floor to meditate.

I agree, and I think a lot of the obsession with meditation posture is cultural baggage. There is no need to do yogic contortions or suffer discomfort when meditating. I've meditated on cushions, stools, chairs, lying down, standing up, I haven't noticed any significant difference in the quality of meditation.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

There are always going to be sensations like pain and aches present. Too much comfort will be detrimental for a proper practice, body/mind, yet too much pain and discomfort is of no benefit either.

I don't agree. Mind and body should be alert but relaxed. Physical pain is an unnecessary hindrance.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Chairs are typically "last resort" but should be available for those who encounter problems and issues conventionally.

That might be the Zen attitude, but in most Buddhist centres I know it is quite common for people to sit on chairs.

 

[Ingledsva]

That all depends if you want to "cheat" or not. ;0)

At this point I have to ask, - what special different thing, - that I already haven't experienced, - am I going to experience, - by sitting crossed-legged on the floor, instead of in a comfortable chair - to meditate?

*

 

[Twilight Hue]

At this point I have to ask, - what special different thing, - that I already haven't experienced, - am I going to experience, - by sitting crossed-legged on the floor, instead of in a comfortable chair - to meditate?

*

There's something else? I thought you wanted something less!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

At this point I have to ask, - what special different thing, - that I already haven't experienced, - am I going to experience, - by sitting crossed-legged on the floor, instead of in a comfortable chair - to meditate?

*

Physical discomfort and pain.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Zen meditation involves facing things directly. Pain and such is an integral and clear aspect of being.

1st Nobel truth.

By avoiding such sensations by attempts to avoid them, you essentally are practicing a form of avoidance.

It dosent mean playing Macho Man Randy Savage and hurting oneself needlessly, but if you can, a good question would be why don't you bother to use correct posture for sitting?

After awhile, as your body gets used to proper posture, it becomes clear as to why its importaint for those who can. Those who can't already contend with facing Mara through the inability to sit in proper posture alternatives are made available.

Your the only one who knows if your "cheating" or not. "0)

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It dosent mean playing Macho Man Randy Savage and hurting oneself needlessly, but if you can, a good question would be why don't you bother to use correct posture for sitting?

"Correct posture" is the body being alert yet relaxed, the rest is cultural baggage. There is no need to do yogic contortions or endure physical pain, and these are unneccesary distractions to developing tranquillity and insight.

 

[Twilight Hue]

"Correct posture" is the body being alert yet relaxed, the rest is cultural baggage. There is no need to do yogic contortions or endure physical pain, and these are unneccesary distractions to developing tranquillity and insight.

The Kyosaku or wisdom stick has that tendency to disagree once you are spotted slumping or leaning out of posture. ;0)

Wack waacck wwwaaaccckkk!!!

Addresses a very strong ego "in the moment" by the crazy*** monk who seems to enjoy being the source of your pain.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The Kyosaku or wisdom stick has that tendency to disagree once you are spotted slumping or leaning out of posture. ;0)
Wack waacck wwwaaaccckkk!!!
Addresses a very strong ego "in the moment" by the crazy*** monk who seems to enjoy being the source of your pain.

Might as well do some kendo if you are into hitting people with sticks.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Might as well do some kendo if you are into hitting people with sticks.

I wonder how incorrect form is addressed?

 

[Wu Wei]

I wonder how incorrect form is addressed?

Painfully

 

[David1967]

The Kyosaku or wisdom stick has that tendency to disagree once you are spotted slumping or leaning out of posture. ;0)

Wack waacck wwwaaaccckkk!!!

Addresses a very strong ego "in the moment" by the crazy*** monk who seems to enjoy being the source of your pain.

If a monk hits me with a stick, all I can say is his kung fun better be really, really good.