Your opinion on converts

[Onkara]

I think that is it. It is better to say "I am a devotee" or "I follow Sanatana Dharma" or "My God is Shiva" or what you feel you are. I think Seyorni is right, Hindu are people from the India. As mentioned once before the word for a person from India in Spanish is " un hindú" which makes it confusing if you try to explain Sikhs, Christians or Muslims from India when speaking Spanish. Also the topic doesn't necessary come up for others who are used to the Mandir, I don't think, it is more from a sense of something new and fresh for you

PS: Nice to see you online

 

[GURSIKH]

But, what do the words/opinions of another mean, if anything? Does it mean that should I, for example want to consider myself Hindu, I can, but I can't be buried with Hindu rites? That I cannot take the sacred thread? What does it mean, besides not being accepted as a convert? Your thoughts?

Thats not the case :, i know Hindus welcome everyone, you should talk to someone more knowledge ful



Anyway sacred thread reminds me a Shabad by Guru Nanak sahib , Guru Sahib telling The Priest who wanna put Sacred thread to Guru sahib


ਦਇਆ ਕਪਾਹ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਸੂਤੁ ਜਤੁ ਗੰਢੀ ਸਤੁ ਵਟੁ ॥
Make compassion the cotton, contentment the thread, modesty the knot and truth the twist.


ਏਹੁ ਜਨੇਊ ਜੀਅ ਕਾ ਹਈ ਤ ਪਾਡੇ ਘਤੁ ॥
This is the sacred thread of the soul; if you have it, then go ahead and put it on me.


ਨਾ ਏਹੁ ਤੁਟੈ ਨ ਮਲੁ ਲਗੈ ਨਾ ਏਹੁ ਜਲੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
It does not break, it cannot be soiled by filth, it cannot be burnt, or lost.


ਧੰਨੁ ਸੁ ਮਾਣਸ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜੋ ਗਲਿ ਚਲੇ ਪਾਇ ॥
Blessed are those mortal beings, O Nanak, who wear such a thread around their necks



Sat Nam sri Wahe Guru

 

[Onkara]

Thats encouraging, Gursikh Ji
Guru Nanak Ji knew that it was the inner devotion which really counts. :bow::bow: It is interesting how we all seem to need the external factors to be right in order for the inner seed to grow, isn't it?

I mean, most of us would like to have friends with the same religious ideas, a place to go when we want to share their company and the pleasure of talking with them I feel this is what one wants when one thinks of converting Nanak Ji also knew this as he spoke often of the company of others, didn't he?

 

[GURSIKH]

Thats encouraging, Gursikh Ji
Guru Nanak Ji knew that it was the inner devotion which really counts. :bow::bow: It is interesting how we all seem to need the external factors to be right in order for the inner seed to grow, isn't it?

I mean, most of us would like to have friends with the same religious ideas, a place to go when we want to share their company and the pleasure of talking with them I feel this is what one wants when one thinks of converting Nanak Ji also knew this as he spoke often of the company of others, didn't he?

You are true my respected Onkaara ji

Guru Nanak sahib gave highest importance to Sadh sangat ( Company of Holy )



Check the following shabad by Guru Nanak


ਤੈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕੀ ਬਾਤ ਜਿ ਆਖੈ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਆ ਦੀਜੈ ॥
One who brings me a message from my Lord and Master - says Nanak, what shall I give to Him?

ਸੀਸੁ ਵਢੇ ਕਰਿ ਬੈਸਣੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਿਰ ਸੇਵ ਕਰੀਜੈ ॥
Cutting off my head, I give it to Him to sit upon; without my head, I shall still serve Him.:bow:

 

[zenzero]

Friend Odion,

Your opinion on converts

Who is converting into what??
Religion is a path/way, to what??
to know the *self*.
Where is the *self*?
within.
To journey within what is meant by changing path/way??
Nothing outward but only internal.
If internal why any outward shoe is required?
not required as one is a human and every human is by birth following the dharma being part of the existence; except some are conscious and others unconscious.
Those who are conscious knows that one is free to follow any path he finds suitable and for that he does not need anyone's permission.
For the unconscious mind?? anything/everything is possible.

Love & rgds

 

[Vinayaka]

Religious conversions amount to not only accepting a new religion but denying one's previous religion. This does not make a convert wiser with the added knowledge of a new religion, but narrow minded due to not seeing the possibilities of truth expressing itself in all religions. Religious conversions generate intolerance and narrow mindedness. What is required is not the exclusive mindset of conversion propagated by the Abrahamic religions but the inclusive mindset of acceptance propagated by the Hinduism. Seeing truth express itself in all religions and being free to choose the religion we wish while accepting that others may find other religions enticing is the Hindu way unlike the Abrahamic way which says that truth is confined to only one religion and conversion to it is the only salvation. The former leads to peace among religions while the latter leads to warfare among religions. Hence, religious conversions are pernicious.

This, in my opinion, is a false idea. For one thing, here in the west, some people have no previous religious affiliation, unlike India, where that is very rare. So its simply not always true that you have to drop a previous system.

Even if you were in a previous religion, it is a really good idea to drop some of it, most of it, or all of it. Confusion reigns supreme when someone tries to be every religion at once. Tolerating all religions is different than that. But it is blatant oversimplification to say all religions are the same. None of the Abrahamics believe that. Hindus only do it to appease these guys, and even then it doesn't work. One should stand firm for what he believes in, and let others do the same, not try to water it all down.

 

[K.Venugopal]

This, in my opinion, is a false idea. For one thing, here in the west, some people have no previous religious affiliation, unlike India, where that is very rare. So its simply not always true that you have to drop a previous system.

Even if you were in a previous religion, it is a really good idea to drop some of it, most of it, or all of it. Confusion reigns supreme when someone tries to be every religion at once. Tolerating all religions is different than that. But it is blatant oversimplification to say all religions are the same. None of the Abrahamics believe that. Hindus only do it to appease these guys, and even then it doesn't work. One should stand firm for what he believes in, and let others do the same, not try to water it all down.

Please note that difference need not mean contradiction. When it is said that all religions are the same it is only meant that all religions have in them teachings that connect man and God, whatever the nomenclatures or approaches we may use or adopt.

 

[Vinayaka]

Please note that difference need not mean contradiction.

Not necessarily, but often it does. Here's a couple of examples:

Christianity: one life, heaven or hell on a judgment day
Hinduism: many lives on a path to release from samsara, moksha

Christianity: Christ is absolutely relevant and necessary
Hinduism: Christ is irrelevant, unnecessarry, may or may not have existed, doesn`t really matter

As far as I know there are only 2 things in common: a belief in God (although the definition may vary), and a set of morals, although they also vary somewhat

So when people find all these similarities, what they tend to do is redefine the other person`s or both belief systems like this as an example : `But the bible does teach reincarnation`

I think its better to view it from a tolerance POV: acknowledge the differences, yet allow that to happen without trying to assimilate it all into one.

 

[Vinayaka]

Does it mean that should I, for example want to consider myself Hindu, I can, but I can't be buried with Hindu rites?

This says a lot. Buried?

 

[Marble]

I am from Europe, with no Indian ancestry.
I believe in Mahadevi, but I do not think about formal conversion to Hinduism because in my opinion it is just not necessary: Devi Ma is Mother of All, be they from India, Asia, Africa, or Europe - whether they know it or not.

The idea that Hinduism does not accept converts may come from the close connection of Hindu religion with Hindu social costoms (such as caste) in the past.
Hinduism seems to be a believe very much centered around the family & village, were every family has its family deity & every village its unique customs, so that it may seem difficult for a non Hindu to connect.

In Christianity, Judaism, Islam much of the religious life is centered around church/synagogue/ mosque, which are all public places.
But in Hinduism most of the religious life takes place in the privacy of one's home, also because in the past there were heavy restrictions on who was allowed to enter what temple.

So when you want to convert to one of the big 3, you can basically go to the next church/synagogue/ mosque and ask what you have to do.
In Hinduism that is not so easy - what temple should you visit, one dedicated to Radha-Krishna, one of Shiva or a temple of Devi?

Buddhism has become prominent in the west because of the Tibetan diaspora. Hinduism has largly remained in Asia, allthough some organizations like ISKCON have gone abroad.

Than I'm not sure if there is a conversion ritual accepted by all Hindu denominations.
When you convert in a Shiva temple under the guidance of a Shaiva Guru - would a Vaishnava accept you as a Hindu (and vice versa)?

Those are my ideas.

 

[Vinayaka]

Regarding conversion, if you look at history, the idea of NOT converting only came up when Eurocentric writers started looking at Hinduism, with their Eurocentric POV (bias) Before that, the idea was there. So this whole idea was created by Christians mainly as another technique to insure more conversions their way. (If there are none going the other way, then we win.)

Its a fine ploy, but the gig is over. Of course you can convert to Hinduism. Its not some secret club. Its the rightful heritage of mankind, indeed destiny. No other faith has the broadness and scope to see that other faiths are also okay. No other faith has the rich mystic depth, the living ancient temples, the patience etc.

Many people are already converted mentally; but they just haven't put the stamp of approval on it. Its like living common-law instead of getting married. Legally in most countries its the same thing.

But if and when you do make this 'full' conversion, please make sure that its really something you want. Due consideration is needed. Its not some sort of jump back and forth game. Today I'm a Hindu. Tomorrow I'm a Buddhist. Next day Islam looks appealing. Other cultural aspects aspects of Hinduism come into play. Back to the marriage analogy, we usually marry the whole person, faults and all.

I stand tall, proud to be Hindu. I wish more Hindus could say that.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Vinayaka,

Your msg. summed up the issue aptly.
As you have yourself pointed

Its the rightful heritage of mankind,

with reference to Sanatan Dharma and whose definition makes it clear that it is not a religion but a way; a way of life in tune with the laws of existence and so every human is a follower of sanatan dharma by default and so no formality is required as it is not a club who recognizes its members by awarding medals or pins like Rotary/Lions/etc club members. It is all about awareness/consciousness and those humans who live with awareness /consciousness are already following sanatan dharma so none needs to convert in any case. Directly join a community/sangha where this consciousness gets enhanced like a field of flowers in bloom.
Love & rgds

 

[Astravalon]

Religious conversions amount to not only accepting a new religion but denying one's previous religion. This does not make a convert wiser with the added knowledge of a new religion, but narrow minded due to not seeing the possibilities of truth expressing itself in all religions. Religious conversions generate intolerance and narrow mindedness. What is required is not the exclusive mindset of conversion propagated by the Abrahamic religions but the inclusive mindset of acceptance propagated by the Hinduism. Seeing truth express itself in all religions and being free to choose the religion we wish while accepting that others may find other religions enticing is the Hindu way unlike the Abrahamic way which says that truth is confined to only one religion and conversion to it is the only salvation. The former leads to peace among religions while the latter leads to warfare among religions. Hence, religious conversions are pernicious.

When I first came to Hinduism (20 years ago) no westerners called them selves Hindu's. They called them selves Yogi's or Vedanten's or even the religion they came out of. Today some converts do call themselves Hindu's. I know a Christian pastor who has a Hindu Guru. I also know hindu's who say they are Atheists and they are Hindu's. It's not so easy to say who is and is not a Hindu when it comes to converts. Many people who practice yoga and follow yogic principles will say they are Buddhist.

I even read a Swami from one of the Sankara Maths say. Every one is born a Hindu you have to make the choice not to be.

Many Hindu's believe Buddhists are just one more sect of Hinduism. So it's hard to tell what conversion even means.

Then you have some of the Orthodox folks in India who believe you have to be born a Hindu in India to be a Hindu. I asked one of these Orthodox fellows about the Hindu's in Bali, He said they are an exception to this rule.

Wow, who can figure the whole thing out.

This is why, while God has revived my love for Him in the form of Krishna, I will continue to simply call myself a spiritual eclectic. I don't want to make the mistake I did as a Christian where I let my love for God get clouded over by the man-made religious mindset built up around Him, and wind up getting God and institution confused with each other. I plan on keeping it very right-brained and simple, and not get caught up in the left-brain intricacies that I did as a Christian. I want it to be a Relationship, not a religion, if that makes sense.

.