Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I know, UV - that's exactly the point I was making to Dallas! Go back and read the posts and you'll see that's what I was saying.
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Your Daughter Wants a Laptop. It Costs the Same as Would Enough Penicillin to Save 125 Lives.
- Thread starter MSizer
- Start date
I know, UV - that's exactly the point I was making to Dallas! Go back and read the posts and you'll see that's what I was saying.
blackout
Violet.
A girl needs a little happiness and entertainment in her life.
Can I transfer entertainment credits
from the fact that we don't have any television service
(which is also unnecessary)
and get all our movies free from the public library?
I'm sure in the end,
I've spent less.
blackout
Violet.
If one of my children needs something however,
I will do my very best to try and get it for them.
Not wanting to become a "charity" myself though,
I will not then be also passing along what little is left
to other people's kids.
sorry.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
UV I bet you give your time or money or talents to people less fortunate than you, don't you?
Don't you take the opportunity to be an example of generosity and empathy for others to your children?
Don't you teach your children to help others when possible?
Don't you teach them (in words and actions) that sometimes helping others requires self sacrifice?
If not - shouldn't you be?
Don't you take the opportunity to be an example of generosity and empathy for others to your children?
Don't you teach your children to help others when possible?
Don't you teach them (in words and actions) that sometimes helping others requires self sacrifice?
If not - shouldn't you be?
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Look!
We are all flying by the seat of our pants here so just calm down and stop saying hell and all that.
Love
Dallas
blackout
Violet.
Kathryn. We do without.
We do without ALOT.
ANYTHING I have goes towards my own.
I HAVE nothing else to give.
I sleep on my own kids all week.
I NEED HELP in my own house.
I'm sick alot.
My kids KNOW sacrifice.
We help each other out right here in this house,
just to survive,
and stay happy, and hopeful.
They don't need to go outside the house
to learn how to help others.
If we don't help each other right here,
we ALL go down. together.
My kids KNOW empathy.
They have hearts for people.
They know LOVE and FRIENDSHIP and kindness.
not "charity".
I manage NOT to be a charity case myself.
THAT is my contribution to society.
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Me too!!!
I dance to
Elmo and the Wiggles (but we are fortunate to have cable) because my GROWN children have chidren that they can NOT afford to stay home with and have electricity at the same time!
So while still raising my OWN minor chidren I am "volunteering " my time to raise my grandchildren because my grown children are POOR.
And if I have money to buy one of my children a "laptop" then I wont think I have to give "more" to charity or volunteer aymore of my FREE time to STRANGERS so I wont feel guilty that my money and free time go to MY children and grandchildren who NEED me..
Love
Dallas
dust1n
Zindīq
Not so simple. In order to build a digital transistor, you would need to mine Coltan. Look up Coltan mining in the Congo, and see if those workers have good employment, or the ability to buy health care and other basic needs.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, buying the laptop could inevitably do more damage to those in need than buying nothing at all.
Last edited:
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
You know what - I never said that if you are going to buy your own kid a laptop, then offset it with a gift to charity.
What I said was - IF you feel like guilty about giving non essential gifts to your daughter, you can offset the gift with acts of charity - which are possible for just about anyone in Western society.
Even if you don't have a penny to your name, you can do something to alleviate the suffering of others. Don't tell me you can't, because you can.
If you don't want to, or feel you can't - fine, go ahead and buy the laptop and move on. It won't bother me any.
My advice was simply for those who MAY feel guilty or extravagant. What you give or don't give is your own business.
What I said was - IF you feel like guilty about giving non essential gifts to your daughter, you can offset the gift with acts of charity - which are possible for just about anyone in Western society.
Even if you don't have a penny to your name, you can do something to alleviate the suffering of others. Don't tell me you can't, because you can.
If you don't want to, or feel you can't - fine, go ahead and buy the laptop and move on. It won't bother me any.
My advice was simply for those who MAY feel guilty or extravagant. What you give or don't give is your own business.
gnomon
Well-Known Member
So don't buy the laptops and the people of coltan get nothing rather than something. Also, should I not have a necessary surgery if they require suture clips? Coltan. Of course, sources state that the coltan from the Congo is a fraction of the world market. So what are the chances that particular laptop has transistors made from the element which came from the Congo? Another source places the majority of coltan exported out of the Congo goes to China. So a Sony laptop should be okay.
So basically, not buying the laptop with really no clue from where the coltan came to manufacture the required parts in the laptop is an essentially meaningless gesture. You could be screwing over those in Australia where the majority of the world's coltan is mined.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Everyone's over analyzing - as the OP dictates.
Give what you can give to make the world a better place. Better the lives of others. Put their needs ahead of your own - but take care of your own. Giving is usually sacrificial in nature, but not always - both types of giving benefits another though.
Buy the laptop if you can - but teach your kids the joy of giving and sacrificing for others. It will be an invaluable lesson.
Lead them by example.
Give what you can give to make the world a better place. Better the lives of others. Put their needs ahead of your own - but take care of your own. Giving is usually sacrificial in nature, but not always - both types of giving benefits another though.
Buy the laptop if you can - but teach your kids the joy of giving and sacrificing for others. It will be an invaluable lesson.
Lead them by example.
Buttons*
Glass half Panda'd
Gnomon, I think I get your point... if not, feel free to tell me. If I heard you right, I think you're right! No matter what you buy, the money is going somewhere. Who is to say that the money from the laptop is not partially going to places where money is needed? People who build laptops get paid, as well as the places that manufacture the stuff that makes laptops. What if by not buying the laptop, we're taking money from those who need it as well? For instance, if someone is working for a laptop company, and the pay is needed to feed that person's family, why is it bad?
I hate sweat-shop labor, which is why I REALLY try hard to buy clothes that are made in the country I'm living in. Sometimes I can't afford this luxury. So many people can't AT ALL! By purchasing things made in China, we're supporting sweat shop labor - but conversely we're helping feed the people within the sweatshop. No, it's not good, but there are so many causes to be helping that it would be really difficult for someone in the West, who is used to luxury items, to give them up in favor of doing everything oneself. For instance, if you despise sweat shop labor of clothing, but purchase all your accessory items (TV) from anywhere, you're still contributing to that cause. Like it or not, we're not good enough people to make our own clothes, to grow our own crops, and to take care of ourselves without the exploitation to other cultures. So, if it comes to the choice where my daughter needs a laptop to succeed, but the money could be spent helping people get vaccinations, I would have to look at my life - how many of the things I have are made of the pain of other people? Other people whom I will never meet, and never think about, but who struggle for survival... how can I possibly say I am a good person either way? If I don't buy my daughter a laptop, people in another country could starve. If I don't donate the money, people in another country will not get basic health needs.
It's really hard to be a "good" person when we think about it. And I mean, REALLY think about it.
I hate sweat-shop labor, which is why I REALLY try hard to buy clothes that are made in the country I'm living in. Sometimes I can't afford this luxury. So many people can't AT ALL! By purchasing things made in China, we're supporting sweat shop labor - but conversely we're helping feed the people within the sweatshop. No, it's not good, but there are so many causes to be helping that it would be really difficult for someone in the West, who is used to luxury items, to give them up in favor of doing everything oneself. For instance, if you despise sweat shop labor of clothing, but purchase all your accessory items (TV) from anywhere, you're still contributing to that cause. Like it or not, we're not good enough people to make our own clothes, to grow our own crops, and to take care of ourselves without the exploitation to other cultures. So, if it comes to the choice where my daughter needs a laptop to succeed, but the money could be spent helping people get vaccinations, I would have to look at my life - how many of the things I have are made of the pain of other people? Other people whom I will never meet, and never think about, but who struggle for survival... how can I possibly say I am a good person either way? If I don't buy my daughter a laptop, people in another country could starve. If I don't donate the money, people in another country will not get basic health needs.
It's really hard to be a "good" person when we think about it. And I mean, REALLY think about it.
gnomon
Well-Known Member
Pretty much. There's so much we consume that is of a necessity or a luxury that is hard to keep track of.
Took me a long time to post this but I just deleted an incredibly long post. Too much personal information.
I'll just say that my main beef is the notion that any luxury item, and laptops are not always classed as luxury which is noted by the many that have been produced and donated or sold very cheap ($100) to those who make good use of them for education, purchased is a waste and all of that money could have gone to aid someone. Usually such arguments ignore some very important concepts. Logistics and politics.
dust1n
Zindīq
It was just an example. I guess a more directly relevant one would be diamonds. But, regardless the commodity, someone is usually oppressed, especially at the base level. These circumstances don't actually lead to any personal gain. Now, jobs may be created and pay may refueled back into the economy, but that doesn't necessarily mean anyone's life is now better. But you are right, you can't be guilty for doing something you didn't know.
blackout
Violet.
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Probably...
But just in case be charitable and abstain from buying a laptop.
Love
Dallas
Buttons*
Glass half Panda'd
But if you look around your house, at any variety of products or even food... how many things are made that come from the hands of sweatshop labor and/or animal cruelty and/or poverty stricken nations? I mean, there are so many things that we have as westerners that people could only dream of... is it hypocritical to help one group of people in need but continue to purchase things we don't need? (that extra couch, that TV, the decorations on your walls, the extra cots or beds you have around?) Assuming you don't live in a cardboard box, and you have money, you could give all your things away and give the money left over to charity. Why don't you? Is it because you don't care about people who need help? I think that's too hard of a judgement to make. Still, money spent IS going to people. It is good to try and be charitable, but until we can actually live in a way that is self sustaining (and I mean, really self sustaining) are we really helping anyone? Would it be best to go about our lives and do what we do, and assume that any item we purchase is at least going somewhere?
All in all, we'll probably benefit more by helping people and being charitable physically, rather than just sending money away with the assumption it will help those in need. I mean, soup kitchens, building homes for homeless, teaching kids how to grow their own crops. If we can do that, we're helping more people in the long run than simply donating money to a cause we know little about. Who's to say that the money is actually getting there anyway?
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I think the word "charity" has bad connotations. It simply means "love."
Au contraire - usually having a job and having the flow of money in an economy make a HUGE difference in the quality of life for a family, and a community.
I would like to buy American, but often the higher price we pay is reflective of over-zealous unions, and top wages paid for inferior work. I don't like the feeling of getting ripped off or supporting a shoddy work ethic any more than I like supporting sweat shop labor.
I have a few companies I refuse to buy from because of their political stances or mode of operating, either domestically or overseas. I also do my best to support local businesses by avoiding Wal Mart and big box stores when possible.
I give to good causes and volunteer some time and try to raise my children to be aware of the bigger picture in things and how their actions affect others around them.
Hey, and I buy organic, cage-free eggs! I try to be aware of any practice which is cruel to animals or humans and adjust my buying habits accordingly.
But if I over analyzed every purchase I make, I'd just stand in the store doorway paralyzed with angst.
One more little aside note - we call ourselves "consumers" like it's a bad thing. It's not - as long as we're also producers. It's when the consumer/producer balance gets off kilter that a community or country is in trouble.
Au contraire - usually having a job and having the flow of money in an economy make a HUGE difference in the quality of life for a family, and a community.
I would like to buy American, but often the higher price we pay is reflective of over-zealous unions, and top wages paid for inferior work. I don't like the feeling of getting ripped off or supporting a shoddy work ethic any more than I like supporting sweat shop labor.
I have a few companies I refuse to buy from because of their political stances or mode of operating, either domestically or overseas. I also do my best to support local businesses by avoiding Wal Mart and big box stores when possible.
I give to good causes and volunteer some time and try to raise my children to be aware of the bigger picture in things and how their actions affect others around them.
Hey, and I buy organic, cage-free eggs! I try to be aware of any practice which is cruel to animals or humans and adjust my buying habits accordingly.
But if I over analyzed every purchase I make, I'd just stand in the store doorway paralyzed with angst.
One more little aside note - we call ourselves "consumers" like it's a bad thing. It's not - as long as we're also producers. It's when the consumer/producer balance gets off kilter that a community or country is in trouble.
