Chevalier Violet
Active Member
I have two experiments running.
To know which experiment to help me with, please answer the following question:
Have you ever had a "vision of God." Put simply, has anything resembling what Judeo-Christians call God, or a similar presence, ever appeared to you.
If yes, please read and help with experiment 1.
If no, please read and help with experiment 2.
Experiment #1:
Quote: If you would be interested in doing an experiment with me - my first experiment in my epistemology of religion, we could perhaps do something very interesting. I don't want you to do anything you'd be uncomfortable with, or that was somehow against some belief you have or text that you cherish.
My understanding of God, whatever he is, appears to be metaphorical. In other words, I have a bit of power to shape and even create my impression of Him. This is not to say that the image of God is only imaginary, and that there is nothing REAL out there that all this corresponds to.
But if you ultimately would like to do an experiment, I would ask you for now simply to observe the "creative aspect" of your perception of God.
Imagine a really close friend or relative. For me, I imagine my dad. So take the spirit, the way of thinking of that person, but make the exterior form in the form of a parrot. Keep the voice the same, the personality entirely the same.
Personally, I can change my dad's form into a parrot, and the parrot still feels like my dad. The parrot doesn't look like my dad, but it still talks like my dad, thinks like my dad, acts like my dad would.
Interestingly, I cannot do this with the image I have of God. If I try to imagine God as a parrot, I just can't. I can imagine a parrot, I can see an image of God in my head (without saying God actually exists) but I cannot imagine God as a parrot. I can't imagine a godly parrot; I can imagine a parrot, but then it doesn't feel like God anymore.
It is a question of feeling; an intuition. I don't think it's possible for me to explain it more clearly. If you haven't felt it, I'm not sure that you could possibly understand what I mean.
Try to see God as an old man, a ball of light, a woman, or a shining block of cheese that governs the universe. What you want to ask yourself is, "is this working?"
For me, just as an example, I can't see God as a woman. I can imagine a woman, but then it's not God anymore, if you see what I mean. You can actually run a "test" that anyone can take to see if God is a woman.
If I overexercise your creativity, God disappears and I'm looking at something else (I know because I feel it). This, for now, is the best way to learn more about what God is.
Again, to say creative aspect is not to say you're inventing anything. Our sensory perceptions of God is like writing a poem in order to better understand a feeling of joy. The feeling is there whether you write a poem or not. Your understanding of it may alter depending on what sort of poem you write, the exact wording and so forth. But the feeling is still there. Also, there is not one poem you can write but infinite, just as there is not only one form God may take but infinitely many.
Let me know how doing this experiment sounds to you. If you are game, please tell me how well you can alter the form under which God appears to you (without too much straining).
Experiment #2
Quote: This experiment is for people who have never seen a vision of God before.
Whether or not God exists, almost everybody agrees that normal, sane, rational people have visions of God, and some of these people believe that what they "see" (or sometimes simply hear or sense) is truly a supernatural being.
Whatever your beliefs - whether or not you believe God is ultimately an illusion - the point of this exercise is to see if we can get you to see this vision. If you have more questions, please feel free.
There is one pre-condition to this experiment. This requisite pre-condition is very different from experiments in the material world: true desire.
Let's say you're baking a cake. In the material world, if I give you precise directions for how to bake a cake, it doesn't matter if you don't want a cake to come out of your oven. So long as you follow the directions scrupulously, it doesn't matter what you desire; even if you desire cookies, you will get a cake.
"Visions that people attribute to God" is not a material perception. It is a perception of a religious realm, or something completely imaginary. I could give you precise directions, and you could follow them exactly. But if you're bent on undermining what I say, you cannot possibly succeed. You must really seek this vision in order to have it. It will take your consent.
Now, if you fail to have a religious vision, you're afraid I'm going to say, "ah, your effort wasn't good enough. You didn't truly desire it, that's why you didn't have a religious vision." This prospect frightens you.
But that's not what I would say. I would simply ask three questions: 1.) would you please describe the frequency and duration of your attempts to see the "Vision attributed to God". 2.) How much did you desire to have a religious vision from 1-10 (10 being strong desire, 1 being no real desire.) 3.) I would ask how honestly did you answer these questions from 1-10 (1 being with complete dishonesty, 10 being with complete truth.)
That's it.
If you'd answer a bonus question, I'd really appreciate it. I'd ask "how uncomfortable, embarrassed, or foolish did you feel while praying?" 1-10
Then, whatever happens, I would thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Recommended method: just "pray" to "god" for 5 minutes a week every night for a week. Let's see what happens.
By prayer, I mean just ask God for what you want, talk about your feelings with God. If you feel comfortable doing the following, apologize for not being a better person in specific ways.
Even if you don't ultimately have a vision of God, this exercise will resemble meditation, and can't possibly do anything but make you a happier person. You really have nothing to lose but a few minutes of time and everything to gain.
I'm really excited to see what happens. I really appreciate the effort and telling me what you find out. I'm really looking forward to the results.
Thank you for your help. Good luck to you all in your search for truth,
To know which experiment to help me with, please answer the following question:
Have you ever had a "vision of God." Put simply, has anything resembling what Judeo-Christians call God, or a similar presence, ever appeared to you.
If yes, please read and help with experiment 1.
If no, please read and help with experiment 2.
Experiment #1:
Quote: If you would be interested in doing an experiment with me - my first experiment in my epistemology of religion, we could perhaps do something very interesting. I don't want you to do anything you'd be uncomfortable with, or that was somehow against some belief you have or text that you cherish.
My understanding of God, whatever he is, appears to be metaphorical. In other words, I have a bit of power to shape and even create my impression of Him. This is not to say that the image of God is only imaginary, and that there is nothing REAL out there that all this corresponds to.
But if you ultimately would like to do an experiment, I would ask you for now simply to observe the "creative aspect" of your perception of God.
Imagine a really close friend or relative. For me, I imagine my dad. So take the spirit, the way of thinking of that person, but make the exterior form in the form of a parrot. Keep the voice the same, the personality entirely the same.
Personally, I can change my dad's form into a parrot, and the parrot still feels like my dad. The parrot doesn't look like my dad, but it still talks like my dad, thinks like my dad, acts like my dad would.
Interestingly, I cannot do this with the image I have of God. If I try to imagine God as a parrot, I just can't. I can imagine a parrot, I can see an image of God in my head (without saying God actually exists) but I cannot imagine God as a parrot. I can't imagine a godly parrot; I can imagine a parrot, but then it doesn't feel like God anymore.
It is a question of feeling; an intuition. I don't think it's possible for me to explain it more clearly. If you haven't felt it, I'm not sure that you could possibly understand what I mean.
Try to see God as an old man, a ball of light, a woman, or a shining block of cheese that governs the universe. What you want to ask yourself is, "is this working?"
For me, just as an example, I can't see God as a woman. I can imagine a woman, but then it's not God anymore, if you see what I mean. You can actually run a "test" that anyone can take to see if God is a woman.
If I overexercise your creativity, God disappears and I'm looking at something else (I know because I feel it). This, for now, is the best way to learn more about what God is.
Again, to say creative aspect is not to say you're inventing anything. Our sensory perceptions of God is like writing a poem in order to better understand a feeling of joy. The feeling is there whether you write a poem or not. Your understanding of it may alter depending on what sort of poem you write, the exact wording and so forth. But the feeling is still there. Also, there is not one poem you can write but infinite, just as there is not only one form God may take but infinitely many.
Let me know how doing this experiment sounds to you. If you are game, please tell me how well you can alter the form under which God appears to you (without too much straining).
Experiment #2
Quote: This experiment is for people who have never seen a vision of God before.
Whether or not God exists, almost everybody agrees that normal, sane, rational people have visions of God, and some of these people believe that what they "see" (or sometimes simply hear or sense) is truly a supernatural being.
Whatever your beliefs - whether or not you believe God is ultimately an illusion - the point of this exercise is to see if we can get you to see this vision. If you have more questions, please feel free.
There is one pre-condition to this experiment. This requisite pre-condition is very different from experiments in the material world: true desire.
Let's say you're baking a cake. In the material world, if I give you precise directions for how to bake a cake, it doesn't matter if you don't want a cake to come out of your oven. So long as you follow the directions scrupulously, it doesn't matter what you desire; even if you desire cookies, you will get a cake.
"Visions that people attribute to God" is not a material perception. It is a perception of a religious realm, or something completely imaginary. I could give you precise directions, and you could follow them exactly. But if you're bent on undermining what I say, you cannot possibly succeed. You must really seek this vision in order to have it. It will take your consent.
Now, if you fail to have a religious vision, you're afraid I'm going to say, "ah, your effort wasn't good enough. You didn't truly desire it, that's why you didn't have a religious vision." This prospect frightens you.
But that's not what I would say. I would simply ask three questions: 1.) would you please describe the frequency and duration of your attempts to see the "Vision attributed to God". 2.) How much did you desire to have a religious vision from 1-10 (10 being strong desire, 1 being no real desire.) 3.) I would ask how honestly did you answer these questions from 1-10 (1 being with complete dishonesty, 10 being with complete truth.)
That's it.
If you'd answer a bonus question, I'd really appreciate it. I'd ask "how uncomfortable, embarrassed, or foolish did you feel while praying?" 1-10
Then, whatever happens, I would thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Recommended method: just "pray" to "god" for 5 minutes a week every night for a week. Let's see what happens.
By prayer, I mean just ask God for what you want, talk about your feelings with God. If you feel comfortable doing the following, apologize for not being a better person in specific ways.
Even if you don't ultimately have a vision of God, this exercise will resemble meditation, and can't possibly do anything but make you a happier person. You really have nothing to lose but a few minutes of time and everything to gain.
I'm really excited to see what happens. I really appreciate the effort and telling me what you find out. I'm really looking forward to the results.
Thank you for your help. Good luck to you all in your search for truth,
