• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Would you please help me: an experiment for theists and atheists alike

ayani

member
CV- i kind of had two reactions to the experiment.

one was "nah, i really can't see God as a parrot."

the other one was "oh wait, yeah, i can!"

insomuch as i believe that when one is kind of in a right place spiritually, whether one wishes to call it mindfulness, grace, or prayerfulness, the apparent barriers between "self", God" and "other" can burn away. leaving one, for example, free to enjoy God's presence and blessings while one is observing a parrot, eating cereal, or talking with someone on their porch.

so i can't really "see God as a parrot" but i can understand something of God with and in the parrot.
 

elwedriddsche

New Member
No, that is not intended to be Pascal's Wager.

I know, but same difference.

There's nothing with wrong introspection and quiet contemplation, but your experiment is simply an exercise in self-inflicted delusions.

Anybody can also try a few "secular" versions. Try to convince yourself that somebody is following you and see if you can't match the evidence to the conclusion. Is the guy sitting on that bench really reading a newspaper? Haven't I seen that woman on the other street? You get the idea.

Or if you're alone in a dark quiet house, try really hard to interpret every slightest sound as the noises made by an intruder. That creaking floorboard? That popping sound? Scary, isn't it?

There's a chance that you'll take these experiments entirely too seriously and it make take a few days to shake it off. Of course, these experiments do not prove or disprove anything about you being followed or an intruder being present; they are designed to showcase the power of self-suggestion and how our cognitive bias leads us to delude ourselves.
 

Chevalier Violet

Active Member
There's nothing with wrong introspection and quiet contemplation, but your experiment is simply an exercise in self-inflicted delusions.
Circular reasoning. This is an experiment to provide evidence for whether or not they are delusions.

The theist sees this as an exercise in perceiving the truth.

As far as I'm concerned, your certainty that these are delusions is just as arrogant as the Christian's certainty that they are real.

Anybody can also try a few "secular" versions. Try to convince yourself that somebody is following you and see if you can't match the evidence to the conclusion. Is the guy sitting on that bench really reading a newspaper? Haven't I seen that woman on the other street? You get the idea.

Or if you're alone in a dark quiet house, try really hard to interpret every slightest sound as the noises made by an intruder. That creaking floorboard? That popping sound? Scary, isn't it?

There's a chance that you'll take these experiments entirely too seriously and it make take a few days to shake it off. Of course, these experiments do not prove or disprove anything about you being followed or an intruder being present; they are designed to showcase the power of self-suggestion and how our cognitive bias leads us to delude ourselves.
Agreed, what we believe influences us.

Here's another secular exercise.

Tell yourself all the time that people who perceive God are deluding themselves. Tell yourself that you are better than them because you "don't need God to be happy." (true statement, by the way, except for being better). Now tell yourself over and over again that what I'm suggesting is an exercise in invention.

Those theists, they seem deluded don't they? That guy who prays to whoever, he seems nutty doesn't he?

It may take you a few days to shake off your delusion. But of course this just demonstrates the power and influence of what you believe to prevent you from perceiving things, like visions of God.

Of course I'm not implying that God ultimately exists. I am completely agnostic on this point. I do believe that normal sane rational people "perceive" God. And whether or not this is based in reality, it would therefore not be a delusion in the simple sense, since non-delusional people perceive "god".

I agree, with your treatise on the power of perception. I see perceiving God as a skill, one that anyone can develop but not everyone has. And obviously, the "delusions" you have right now are shaping your reality. :)

I know, but same difference.

Ok lol. I don't see how they are similar even, except for the statement "you have nothing to lose by trying" and God is implicated.

the Purple Knight
 

Chevalier Violet

Active Member
I disagree.

You disagree with the purpose of my experiment? That's nice, unfortunately, I made the experiment, so I decide what the purpose of it is, not you.

Or perhaps you were referring to the circular reasoning, within the confines of my experiment, yes it is circular reasoning, aka a clearly defined logical fallacy.

That doesn't mean what you're saying is a fallacy, or that what you're saying is wrong. It is simply not a "proof" within the confines of my experiment.

It is perfectly reasonable to be afraid of a vision of God, for fear that you will go crazy. For one, ending up like one of those Christians, that scares me personally. For another, having visions of something that doesn't exist and being delusional, that leading to other things... well that is a valid fear. I think that fear is based on a misunderstanding of what visions of God are. If they aren't real, at the worst it is like dreaming while awake, and perfectly harmless. Most people report profound benefits. But if you're not interested, no problem. I understand.

Whatever.
Whatever.
 
Top