Would Jesus put up with the very wealthy and very poor?

[mikkel_the_dane]

OK? I never said US should be the baseline. For me, Jesus is the baseline.

Heaven (and I ) know that the US needs to fix their own house. But, IMV, Socialism is not the answer - it is just another human construct.

Your socialism is not mine. I am a social democrat.

 

[Kenny]

Your socialism is not mine. I am a social democrat.

OK... I believe in free will and support your decision to be a social democrat.

I am a Christ follower.

 

[oldbadger]

Nah, on my father's side Highlander, on my mother's side Mancunian, and New England for much of the rest. (I told you it was a long story.)

Well that's better than having Liverpudlian blood in ya!

New England sounds like one of the more ancient areas of the States? I'll guess that all our cities here are named there as well.

 

[74x12]

riddled with greed, wealth, corruption and hypocrisy.

Sounds a lot like democrats or socialists in general around the world. Even if you support socialism the current establishment in control of the world is evil and will never be anything else. You can't really expect things to get better by just supporting the same trash that hasn't worked so far. Jesus would never support it because he would see through all their lies/hypocrisies even if Socialism was a good thing when done properly. Which by the way I do not concede that it really is. I do agree with limited socialism; but not to the degree being pushed now. You can't have socialism without top down control. Without taking people's personal liberties for the so called "collective good". Personal liberties are the best thing ever conceived in politics.

Personal liberty is not given for people's indulgence and hedonistic pursuit of self pleasure. IT's given so people can rule themselves. In fact if people refuse to be their own master then they will be slaves to others.

This thread is about what Jesus said and did. You can follow what he said and did or you can do something (anything) else, 74x12. If you don't follow his words and actions, then you don't.......

Mark {10:21} Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor,

............. obviously nobody has to go poor in order to help the poor, but fair taxation and a good system to catch the tax avoiders and evaders would fix the problems.

Oh okay so ... therefore socialism; a concept stemming from Karl Marx a God hater extraordinaire. I really believe Karl Marx came up with the communist system because he himself was lazy/incompetent and didn't want to work very hard and secondly because he hated God and thought this was a good way to get rid of God.

 

[oldbadger]

Yes... love is about actions. As James said, "faith without works is dead".

Did you need James to tell you that?

But, I think you can only offer an opinion on the middle class. Maybe fishermen were middle class, carpenters, and even some farmers... who knows...

So check it out. The senior peasant class was Farming although Farmers did not own land. But 2nd and 3rd sons would have to leave the land for other work.

Did I say "pay no taxes"? I don't think I did. I'm not even sure what Saul/Paul has to do with this.

Ah....I'll need to come back about this, and Saul..... and his contract.

If, as you said, those leaders were already rich... how can you say "Funds were suffering"? As a matter of fact, business was quite good in the Temple. Remember, Jesus cast them out?

You need to get your timeline in order, Ken.
When the Baptist and Jesus (his men) were baptising, thousands were coming for redemption and cleansing.....for nothing! The Temple's takings suffered. The Baptist got nicked and Jesus went out in to the wastes.

A year later Jesus went in to the Temple and caused mayhem........ for similar reasons, but the damage was mainly caused earlier through baptism.

I like "if I man does not work he should not eat"... a great motivator. A hand up instead of a hand down.

Dreadful. Shocking. Unbelievably bad.
The very young. The very old. The Injured. The Disabled. The dysfunctional. The Pregnant. The redundant.

The OT Laws supported all........ and (for instance) gave every married couple a year off all duties a whole year......

We have gotten away from "helping one another" to "Let the government take care of it".

You pay out for a big military, roads, police, local services, security and more..... none of it comes from 'helping on another'. You need to pay out for education, health, subsistence, homes etc.

What on Earth do you think Jesus would say?

Education... what education??? Indoctrination?? My children home-school.

There should be a standard curriculum for all. If you want to teach more then that should be in addition.

Housing? I started in a one bedroom apartment with a rattan rug, a snowy black and white TV and a mattress (with my wife). Didn't complain, didn't covet someone else's money, and moved up from there.

Big deal. I had a similar 1st home with my wife. But when she became pregnant we got some help from local authority.
If you didn't get help then do better for today's young and needy, eh?

If it is "we have a responsibility to help the poor"... I do and we should. But I don't agree with forcing people to give and then give it to the government (waste of a lot of money to the "managers")

You support taxation for huge battle fleets, and police, and roads...... why stop at things which Jesus supported?

Let's look at facts:

Fact:-
Jesus said of a hoarder
Matthew {25:25} And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth:
You know what he was saying, I think.

And the Baptist said:-
Luke {3:10} And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
Luke {3:11} He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

 

[oldbadger]

No, I don't think he would based on his words in the Sermon On the Mount.

Which words, Metis?

And, btw, the Catholic Church condemns such income disparity that leads to poverty.

Very good.
But Catholic countries have always had so many very poor folks, yes?

 

[blü 2]

Well that's better than having Liverpudlian blood in ya!

New England sounds like one of the more ancient areas of the States? I'll guess that all our cities here are named there as well.

And there was apparently a dash of Welsh with the Mancunians.

 

[oldbadger]

??? - maybe your sources are biased?

And where to you get than information from?

..... that many people live schizophrenic type double lives of religion-politics-mammon? I just read the papers, watch telly, talk to folks.

U.S. churches are using donations to pay off millions of dollars in medical debt for thousands of families - NationofChange
Churches help pay rent and bills
Nearly half of all churches and other faith institutions help people get enough to eat
Churches extend helping hands to homeless | United Methodist News Service
Transitional Housing – GRACE Grapevine

As a matter of fact, there isn't one sector that isn't being helped.

...... in which case they will ALL support the provision of education, healthcare, subsistence, housing etc for all...... easy.

..... I clicked on one of those links and noticed this para....
Meals, soup kitchens, clothing, and non-financial aid is often provided by churches. This is part of hunger prevention in local communities, and it is often available at a food pantry that a local church may operate. Low income families, seniors, and the homeless can all benefit. More on food banks.

Look, my local foodmarket does that. The rugby club does that. etc It's good but a proper system of provision needs to be in place, just like your huge costly military, etc.

Read another poor law from the Laws of Moses which Jesus clearly supported. It is about loans:-

Deuteronomy {15:1} At the end of [every] seven years thou shalt make a release. {15:2} And this [is] the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth [ought] unto his neighbour shall release [it;] he shall not exact [it] of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the LORD’S release.

 

[oldbadger]

So, he was then rich? He had someone holding the money bag and they gave to the poor continuously.

We know he wasn't poor, you have eliminated middle, so that just leaves me as rich.

Please show me with verses, Ken. Show me how they were so rich.
They ate food as they walked through fields, gleaning!

Yes... we all should. Yes, rising according to income. Yes to taxes when you buy values and interest returns. No problem with Capital gains but No on death tax.

Tough on Death Tax. Over a certain limit death tax is reasonable.

yes... close loopholes for the rich and prosecuting those who skirt the laws.

Yes. Absolutely.

 

[oldbadger]

And there was apparently a dash of Welsh with the Mancunians.

Yes.... that looks likely. And an Irish dash in Liverpudlians, I think.

 

[oldbadger]

Sounds a lot like democrats or socialists in general around the world. Even if you support socialism the current establishment in control of the world is evil and will never be anything else. You can't really expect things to get better by just supporting the same trash that hasn't worked so far. Jesus would never support it because he would see through all their lies/hypocrisies even if Socialism was a good thing when done properly. Which by the way I do not concede that it really is. I do agree with limited socialism; but not to the degree being pushed now. You can't have socialism without top down control. Without taking people's personal liberties for the so called "collective good". Personal liberties are the best thing ever conceived in politics.

Personal liberty is not given for people's indulgence and hedonistic pursuit of self pleasure. IT's given so people can rule themselves. In fact if people refuse to be their own master then they will be slaves to others.

Oh okay so ... therefore socialism; a concept stemming from Karl Marx a God hater extraordinaire. I really believe Karl Marx came up with the communist system because he himself was lazy/incompetent and didn't want to work very hard and secondly because he hated God and thought this was a good way to get rid of God.

All that, and not one quote from Jesus or Baptist.
Says it all........

See the Poor laws which Jesus definitely supported:-
Deut {15:7} If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother: {15:8} But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, [in that] which he wanteth.

 

[metis]

Which words, Metis?

It's too long for me to quote, but here's a general summary:

The teachings of the Sermon on the Mount have been a key element of Christian ethics, and for centuries the sermon has acted as a fundamental recipe for the conduct of the followers of Jesus.[18] Various religious and moral thinkers (e.g. Tolstoy and Gandhi) have admired its message, and it has been one of the main sources of Christian pacifism.[1][19]

In the 5th century, Saint Augustine began his book Our Lord's Sermon on the Mount by stating:

If anyone will piously and soberly consider the sermon which our Lord Jesus Christ spoke on the mount, as we read it in the Gospel according to Matthew, I think that he will find in it, so far as regards the highest morals, a perfect standard of the Christian life.

The last verse of chapter 5 of Matthew (5:48) is a focal point of the sermon that summarizes its teachings by advising the disciples to seek perfection."[20] The Greek word telios used to refer to perfection also implies an end, or destination, advising the disciples to seek the path towards perfection and the Kingdom of God.[20] It teaches that God's children are those who act like God.[21] [this sentence, "It teaches that God's children are those who act like God(...)", Is up for debate, as the indicated source's claim is ambiguous at best. Though some of the commentaries written on this event, notably by Eckhart Tolle, and others, indicate that the ultimate humility and itiatiatory act is to act like God in order receive God's ultimate grace, this particular source should be replaced with one that merits this claim]

The teachings of the sermon are often referred to as the Ethics of the Kingdom: they place a high level of emphasis on "purity of the heart" and embody the basic standard of Christian righteousness...[22] -- Sermon on the Mount - Wikipedia

But Catholic countries have always had so many very poor folks, yes?

Yep-- too many people, too few resources.

 

[oldbadger]

@firedragon

I promised to stick up some verses about care in the community from Jesus, and I have added a couple from the Baptist and some of the OT poor laws. Some might not seem relevant in which case tell me and I'll offer an explanation as to why I inserted them.

Mark {10:21} Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor,

Matthew {9:13} But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
...again.............
Matthew {12:7} But if ye had known what [this] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Matthew {23:25} Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Matthew {25:25} And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth:
(......today digital detectives find out about the wealthy people who stuff their money where they hope it cannot be found. I think we know what Jesus would do about them when so many are in so much need.)

Luke:- . {10:31} And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. {10:32} And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked [on him,] and passed by on the other side. {10:33} But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion [on him, ]{10:34} And went to [him,] and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
(See how Jesus scorned the rich and leaders in the above story!)

Mark :{2:23} And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
(Here is a great example of how Jesus supported the poor laws)

And this verse from Deuteronomy which Jesus actually referred to:-
Deuteronomy {15:11} For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.
(Powerful words!)

Mark , {4:19} And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches............................ choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

Mark , {10:23} And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

Mark, {10:24} And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! Mark,

Mark {10:25} It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God

---------------------------------
And the Baptist:-

Mark {1:6} And John was
clothed with camel’s hair, and with a girdle of a skin about
his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;

Matthew {3:5} Then
went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region
round about Jordan, {3:6} And were baptized of him in
Jordan, confessing their sins.

Luke {3:10} And the people asked him, saying, What shall
we do then?
Luke {3:11} He answereth and saith unto them, He
that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none;
and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

Luke {3:12} Then
came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him,
Master, what shall we do? {3:13} And he said unto them,
Exact no more than that which is appointed you.

Matthew {3:7} But when he saw many of the Pharisees and
Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O
generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the
wrath to come?


---------------------------------

Some of the Poor Laws:-
Leviticus {15:11} For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.

Leviticus {19:9} And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.

Leviticus {19:10} And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather [every] grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I [am] the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy {15:1} At the end of [every] seven years thou shalt make a release. {15:2} And this [is] the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth [ought] unto his neighbour shall release [it;] he shall not exact [it] of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the LORD’S release.

Deut {15:7} If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother: {15:8} But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, [in that] which he wanteth.

 

[oldbadger]

It's too long for me to quote, but here's a general summary:

The teachings of the Sermon on the Mount have been a key element of Christian ethics, and for centuries the sermon has acted as a fundamental recipe for the conduct of the followers of Jesus.[18] Various religious and moral thinkers (e.g. Tolstoy and Gandhi) have admired its message, and it has been one of the main sources of Christian pacifism.[1][19]

In the 5th century, Saint Augustine began his book Our Lord's Sermon on the Mount by stating:

If anyone will piously and soberly consider the sermon which our Lord Jesus Christ spoke on the mount, as we read it in the Gospel according to Matthew, I think that he will find in it, so far as regards the highest morals, a perfect standard of the Christian life.

The last verse of chapter 5 of Matthew (5:48) is a focal point of the sermon that summarizes its teachings by advising the disciples to seek perfection."[20] The Greek word telios used to refer to perfection also implies an end, or destination, advising the disciples to seek the path towards perfection and the Kingdom of God.[20] It teaches that God's children are those who act like God.[21] [this sentence, "It teaches that God's children are those who act like God(...)", Is up for debate, as the indicated source's claim is ambiguous at best. Though some of the commentaries written on this event, notably by Eckhart Tolle, and others, indicate that the ultimate humility and itiatiatory act is to act like God in order receive God's ultimate grace, this particular source should be replaced with one that merits this claim]

The teachings of the sermon are often referred to as the Ethics of the Kingdom: they place a high level of emphasis on "purity of the heart" and embody the basic standard of Christian righteousness...[22] -- Sermon on the Mount - Wikipedia

Yep-- too many people, too few resources.

Thanks for that, Metis.

I'm not a Christian, but I'll guess that 'God's ultimate grace' would support the poor in the land.

The trouble is, there is ability and disability in every land. Ability should always understand that it is present through chance, just as Disability is. Ability must help Disability........ always.

 

[Kenny]

Did you need James to tell you that?

Did you want me to be my own authority?

So check it out. The senior peasant class was Farming although Farmers did not own land. But 2nd and 3rd sons would have to leave the land for other work.

Do you have some support? What happened to the year of jubilee?

Boaz had a farming business.

You need to get your timeline in order, Ken.
When the Baptist and Jesus (his men) were baptising, thousands were coming for redemption and cleansing.....for nothing! The Temple's takings suffered. The Baptist got nicked and Jesus went out in to the wastes.

A year later Jesus went in to the Temple and caused mayhem........ for similar reasons, but the damage was mainly caused earlier through baptism.

MMMmmm... I don't think so. If people came for cleansing, then they tithing went up. The money changer mayhem was an issue because "It was profitable".

Unless you can go beyond the logic with some sustainable material, it would look more like an opinion.

Dreadful. Shocking. Unbelievably bad.
The very young. The very old. The Injured. The Disabled. The dysfunctional. The Pregnant. The redundant.

The OT Laws supported all........ and (for instance) gave every married couple a year off all duties a whole year......

WE AGREE!! I never said it didn't support helping...

Did we loose the issue about it being mandated as a percentage? Was it even government controlled? Other than not cutting the corners of your field, I don't recall any mandates other than "don't forget to help"

You pay out for a big military, roads, police, local services, security and more..... none of it comes from 'helping on another'. You need to pay out for education, health, subsistence, homes etc.

What on Earth do you think Jesus would say?

No, no, no.... this is a big no no. We are are talking about a & b.(helping the poor and needy) To then say that because of a & b, then c & d (military et al) that is a no no.

Can we stay on subject

There should be a standard curriculum for all. If you want to teach more then that should be in addition.

Hmmmm "no". The problem here is "whose standard". The standard today is "promote Critical Race Theory, be whatever sex you want to be, don't listen or talk to mom and dad" et al.

Our grandchildren are getting taught college level material... in high school.

Big deal. I had a similar 1st home with my wife. But when she became pregnant we got some help from local authority.
If you didn't get help then do better for today's young and needy, eh?

That's called "a hand up" not a "hand down -- free for all -- don't work" help.

You support taxation for huge battle fleets, and police, and roads...... why stop at things which Jesus supported?

Jesus promoted government helping the poor? By a certain percentage? Pray tell where.

Remember, I didn't say "don't help".

Fact:-
Jesus said of a hoarder
Matthew {25:25} And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth:
You know what he was saying, I think.

And the Baptist said:-
Luke {3:10} And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
Luke {3:11} He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

But we aren't in disagreement here. I agree that hoarders will tend to poverty as well as revolution.

But two coats doesn't line up with "rich"... does it?

 

[firedragon]

@firedragon

I promised to stick up some verses about care in the community from Jesus, and I have added a couple from the Baptist and some of the OT poor laws. Some might not seem relevant in which case tell me and I'll offer an explanation as to why I inserted them.

Mark {10:21} Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor,

Matthew {9:13} But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
...again.............
Matthew {12:7} But if ye had known what [this] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Matthew {23:25} Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Matthew {25:25} And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth:
(......today digital detectives find out about the wealthy people who stuff their money where they hope it cannot be found. I think we know what Jesus would do about them when so many are in so much need.)

Luke:- . {10:31} And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. {10:32} And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked [on him,] and passed by on the other side. {10:33} But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion [on him, ]{10:34} And went to [him,] and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
(See how Jesus scorned the rich and leaders in the above story!)

Mark :{2:23} And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
(Here is a great example of how Jesus supported the poor laws)

And this verse from Deuteronomy which Jesus actually referred to:-
Deuteronomy {15:11} For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.
(Powerful words!)

Mark , {4:19} And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches............................ choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

Mark , {10:23} And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

Mark, {10:24} And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! Mark,

Mark {10:25} It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God

---------------------------------
And the Baptist:-

Mark {1:6} And John was
clothed with camel’s hair, and with a girdle of a skin about
his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;

Matthew {3:5} Then
went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region
round about Jordan, {3:6} And were baptized of him in
Jordan, confessing their sins.

Luke {3:10} And the people asked him, saying, What shall
we do then?
Luke {3:11} He answereth and saith unto them, He
that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none;
and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

Luke {3:12} Then
came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him,
Master, what shall we do? {3:13} And he said unto them,
Exact no more than that which is appointed you.

Matthew {3:7} But when he saw many of the Pharisees and
Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O
generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the
wrath to come?


---------------------------------

Some of the Poor Laws:-
Leviticus {15:11} For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.

Leviticus {19:9} And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.

Leviticus {19:10} And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather [every] grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I [am] the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy {15:1} At the end of [every] seven years thou shalt make a release. {15:2} And this [is] the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth [ought] unto his neighbour shall release [it;] he shall not exact [it] of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the LORD’S release.

Deut {15:7} If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother: {15:8} But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, [in that] which he wanteth.

Thanks OB

 

[oldbadger]

Did you want me to be my own authority?

You need to be your own investigator.
Brother James wasn't even there, listening to his brother.

............. or did you think that was the disciple?

Do you have some support? What happened to the year of jubilee?
Boaz had a farming business.

Just check out what is known about early 1st cenhtury Palestine.

MMMmmm... I don't think so. If people came for cleansing, then they tithing went up. The money changer mayhem was an issue because "It was profitable".

The money changer (and sacrifice sales) mayhem was undertaken because it was a totally corrupt rip-off.

WE AGREE!! I never said it didn't support helping...
Did we loose the issue about it being mandated as a percentage? Was it even government controlled? Other than not cutting the corners of your field, I don't recall any mandates other than "don't forget to help"

The poor laws were laws. It wasn't about 'don't forget....' it was about 'you shall do this....'

No, no, no.... this is a big no no. We are are talking about a & b.(helping the poor and needy) To then say that because of a & b, then c & d (military et al) that is a no no.

Can we stay on subject

Yes. You haven't mentioned Jesus once so far in this post.

Hmmmm "no". The problem here is "whose standard". The standard today is "promote Critical Race Theory, be whatever sex you want to be, don't listen or talk to mom and dad" et al.

Our grandchildren are getting taught college level material... in high school.

What Race Theory do you want to approach? Jesus was a Middle Eastern Jew.... what do you think he would say about it?

That's called "a hand up" not a "hand down -- free for all -- don't work" help.

You cannot help it, it seems. At the very idea of a more level system of 'division of wealth' you click in to politics. This seems to me like 'politics today, Jesus tomorrow'.

Jesus promoted government helping the poor? By a certain percentage? Pray tell where.

Remember, I didn't say "don't help".

EDIT: Matthew {23:25} Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Oh My Goodness. The Leaders (the government) were ripping off the peasant classes in so many ways. The Baptist and Jesus were acting against all of that. And you want a quote showing where Jesus gave speech about 'Government policies'? It was a Theocracy gone corrupt.

But we aren't in disagreement here. I agree that hoarders will tend to poverty as well as revolution.

But two coats doesn't line up with "rich"... does it?

Two coats was the symbol used for wealth, Ken.

You seem to body-swerve to left and right to avoid or 'put-by' what Jesus said and did.
Look, if you think that Jesus was any kind of right-wing Capitalist then I cannot help you with that.

 

[oldbadger]

Jesus promoted government helping the poor? By a certain percentage? Pray tell where.

This is how he spoke about 'government'.

Matthew {23:25} Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

 

[blü 2]

Yes.... that looks likely. And an Irish dash in Liverpudlians, I think.

Yup. These things can happen, even in the best families. Just ask Betty.

 

[oldbadger]

Yup. These things can happen, even in the best families. Just ask Betty.

You've lost me!
Betty....? Elizabeth?