Women that don't want children

[Reverend Rick]

More and more women these days do not want to have children. Is it because they are selfish or that they do not have the time to raise children in the middle of a sucessful career?

I believe the biggest reason some women don't want to have children is because they are afraid of having to raise them alone. I don't believe women have changed as much as men have. Many men today are not very good father material. Perhaps working hard, sacrificing and staying true to a loving woman is to much to ask for them.

The caliber of many men out there is pretty sad.

What do you think?

 

[Storm]

I think they just don't want to have kids, and that it means they don't want to have kids. They don't have to be selfish or frightened, anymore than men who don't want children. We do have individual personalities, you know; we don't all want the same thing.

 

[Sunstone]

Is it a problem that many women don't want children? If so, how?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Is it a problem that many women don't want children? If so, how?

It's not so much of a problem as it is a trend. There is a reason for everything and I am curious to what the reason is.

 

[Nanda]

I don't know if I count in this, because I already have one child, but I feel very, very strongly about the fact that I don't want any more children. But then again, all of my reasons for not wanting any more stem from already having one... Hm... Yeah, I think I don't count.

 

[doppelganger]

Is it just women who seem to want fewer children?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Is it just women who seem to want fewer children?

What does that have to do with this discussion? Seriously, men have very little control over whether there are children or not, unless you get a vasectomy.

 

[doppelganger]

What does that have to do with this discussion? Seriously, men have very little control over whether there are children or not, unless you get a vasectomy.

Interesting . . .

 

[Booko]

What does that have to do with this discussion? Seriously, men have very little control over whether there are children or not, unless you get a vasectomy.

Men have no control about whether they find a woman to marry who wants children? :areyoucra

 

[Reverend Rick]

Interesting . . .

Women are more in tune with when they ovulate.

Women have more available birth control and can use or discontinue use at their whim.

Women have total control over the decision to abort.

So I ask once again, other than discussing the situation with your mate and convincing her to have children, how do men have anything to do with this?

Women can have children without consent of the father.

Men can't.

This is a tangent, I am interested in WHY many more women don't want children now.

 

[doppelganger]

So I ask once again, other than discussing the situation with your mate and convincing her to have children, how do men have anything to do with this?

Even more interesting . . .

Perhaps you could look to your own OP for the answer . . . .

In any case, you still didn't answer my question . . . which is also interesting . . .

 

[Smoke]

More and more women these days do not want to have children. Is it because they are selfish or that they do not have the time to raise children in the middle of a sucessful career?

I believe the biggest reason some women don't want to have children is because they are afraid of having to raise them alone. I don't believe women have changed as much as men have. Many men today are not very good father material. Perhaps working hard, sacrificing and staying true to a loving woman is to much to ask for them.

The caliber of many men out there is pretty sad.

What do you think?

I think there are probably as many different reasons for not wanting children as for not wanting to own a circus, and that the fecklessness of men is probably not the most common reason.

I also think your thesis is more than a little patronizing. You appear to be letting women off the hook for failing to conform to traditional expectations by shifting the blame to men. The implication seems to be that women would gladly fill their proper office of Mommy if men would just fill their own proper office of Breadwinner. Poor, pitiful girls, thwarted by the cruelty of men.

I don't doubt that there are a good many would-be Cinderellas out there desperately scanning the horizon for Prince Charming. But I'd like to think there are also a few who can get along fine on their own, and even some who trust their husbands but still don't want children. In any case, no man is obligated to assume the role of Prince Charming, however desperately Cinderella may be looking. It's no more feckless for men to decline traditional roles than it is for women.

 

[Reverend Rick]

What is even more interesting is that all the while heterosexuals are shunning children more and more, homosexual couples are embracing the concept of children.

Could it be possible that homosexuals will be more conservative in the future while heterosexuals will become more Liberal? If same sex marriage legislation is passed, would the Gay and Lesbian community have a reason to be Liberal? They may have issues with how their children are raised and want the responsibilty of educating them their selves, a basic conservative cornerstone.

 

[Smoke]

They may have issues with how their children are raised and want the responsibilty of educating them their selves, a basic conservative cornerstone.

Well, that depends what you mean. All parents have a responsibility to educate their children in a general sense, but I don't think it's basic cornerstone of either conservatism or liberalism that Mommy and Daddy are necessarily the proper people to be teaching geometry.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Well, that depends what you mean. All parents have a responsibility to educate their children in a general sense, but I don't think it's basic cornerstone of either conservatism or liberalism that Mommy and Daddy are necessarily the proper people to be teaching geometry.

I may not be teaching geometry to them, but I should be making sure their curriculum is appropriate.

 

[Booko]

I think there are probably as many different reasons for not wanting children as for not wanting to own a circus, and that the fecklessness of men is probably not the most common reason.

I cannot say it if is the most common reason, but I certainly do hear remarks of the sort while visiting the ladies' room, so I do think that sometimes it is a reason.

I also think your thesis is more than a little patronizing. You appear to be letting women off the hook for failing to conform to traditional expectations by shifting the blame to men. The implication seems to be that women would gladly fill their proper office of Mommy if men would just fill their own proper office of Breadwinner. Poor, pitiful girls, thwarted by the cruelty of men.

Well, I believe you are correct for pointing out that it's a bit simplistic to view the situation in only this way.

Among other things, statistics the world over show that the more educated women are and the more access they have to equal power in society the fewer children they have. This is not necessarily a bad thing -- it's not like humanity is in danger of dying out, after all.

I don't doubt that there are a good many would-be Cinderellas out there desperately scanning the horizon for Prince Charming. But I'd like to think there are also a few who can get along fine on their own, and even some who trust their husbands but still don't want children. In any case, no man is obligated to assume the role of Prince Charming, however desperately Cinderella may be looking. It's no more feckless for men to decline traditional roles than it is for women.

Here's where I think you're being patronizing to women, MB. ( Sorry, but there are indeed women out there who are practical and with realistic expectations, not "Cinderellas scanning for Prince Charming" -- but women who want a man who is interested in a family, will actually support one, and is serious about it.

If anything, there are fewer women stuck in dreaming-for-Prince-Charming-land than there used to be. We get out more than in the past, and society doesn't give us just Donna Reed as a role model for "the perfect woman" any more.

 

[Booko]

What is even more interesting is that all the while heterosexuals are shunning children more and more, homosexual couples are embracing the concept of children.

Could it be possible that homosexuals will be more conservative in the future while heterosexuals will become more Liberal? If same sex marriage legislation is passed, would the Gay and Lesbian community have a reason to be Liberal? They may have issues with how their children are raised and want the responsibilty of educating them their selves, a basic conservative cornerstone.

Could it be possible that it's short-sighted to try and cast everything in terms of Liberal vs. Conservative? :sarcastic

I'm assuming you know what a bell curve looks like.

 

[Reverend Rick]

If women are obtaining higher education and careers all the while men are becoming more irresponsible, that speaks volumes for the caliber of men out there.

 

[Quagmire]

More and more women these days do not want to have children. Is it because they are selfish or that they do not have the time to raise children in the middle of a sucessful career?

I believe the biggest reason some women don't want to have children is because they are afraid of having to raise them alone. I don't believe women have changed as much as men have. Many men today are not very good father material. Perhaps working hard, sacrificing and staying true to a loving woman is to much to ask for them.

The caliber of many men out there is pretty sad.

What do you think?

If you had posted this as a poll I would've checked "all of the above" Rick.

I live in an area (Santa Cruz, Ca.) that became a mecca for refugees from the Hippy movement when it ended in the mid-70s. Part of the fallout from the lifestyle that emerged in that era is that almost everyone under 30 (that I know) was raised almost exclusively by their mother.

Typically the father was just someone who showed up when he needed money or a place to crash.

The result of that is that we've wound up with a whole generation of kids (adults now)who've been instilled with the idea that a mother is someone who's supposed to sacrifice herself completely in order to take care of everything and everyone, while a father is someone who's supposed to be allowed complete freedom from responsibility so that he can go "find himself".

So, now we see a whole generation of women who are either hopelessly co-dependant; stuck with some chronically unemployed, perpetually adolescent (and usually drug addicted) clone of her dad, or to whom the whole idea of marraige/motherhood is about as attractive as a prison sentence.

Most of the women that I know in that age group are more than capable of taking care of themselves, and many are too smart to waste that sense of responsibility and independeance they've gained from their upbringing by saddling themselves with some guy who can't take care of himself.

So really it's no surprise if alot of women these days are putting the whole idea of family on the backburner.

Santa Cruz, given it's hippy tradition, is most likely an extreme example, but I'm sure to some extent it reflects American society in general.

Don't get me wrong; I'm the first person to stand up and recognise all the good that came out of the counter-culture movement of the '60s, but I'm not blind to the fact that there's been some (in some ways) unfortunate side-effects.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Could it be possible that it's short-sighted to try and cast everything in terms of Liberal vs. Conservative? :sarcastic

I'm assuming you know what a bell curve looks like.

It is no secret that the country is almost evenly split between Liberal and Conservative values. My point was, if the Gay and Lesbian community did receive same sex marriages, they would have more in common with the Conservatives because they are moving more toward family values while Liberals seem to be running from the responsibility of having children.