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Women Clergy

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Does your religion/denomination allow women clergy? Why or why not?

When did your religion/denomination first begin to ordain women?

Do you agree with your religion/denomination's stance on women clergy?
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Yes, UU allows female ministers. Unitarian Universalism was the first major religious organization to have a majority of female clergy. We believe that men and women are equal, and if a women is called to serve as a minister she should be able to pursue that calling. Our first female minister was ordained in 1863 when Olympia Brown was ordained by the Universalists. She later became a Unitarian.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
They only came in a few years ago.
There was quite a lot of opposition.
Now the way is about cleared for women Bishops.

Me I am very pleased, They have been an excellent addition to the ministry.







Terry____________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Maize said:
Does your religion/denomination allow women clergy? Why or why not?

When did your religion/denomination first begin to ordain women?

Do you agree with your religion/denomination's stance on women clergy?
I have absolutely nothing against the idea of women clergy; personally I see no difference between them and male clergy.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/femclrg3.htm

Quotation:

"I've often thought of my ministry as a wedge plowing a field that is hard, leaving behind something softer that's ready for new life." Bishop Geralyn Wolf of Rhode Island, the first female dean of an Anglican cathedral


Concerning the Anglican Communion itself:

The total membership of the worldwide Anglican Communion is approximately 76 million. Each of the 38 national or multi-national churches, called "provinces," has wide powers of self-government. They independently decide who is eligible for ordination. The leader of each province -- the Primate -- and the bishops meet every ten years at the Lambeth Conference. They attempt to reach general agreement on basic matters of faith and social policy. The next meeting is scheduled for 2008.

In 1998, the General Assembly of the Nippon Sei Ko Kai (Anglican Church in Japan) voted to accept female priests. This meant that the majority of provinces will now consider women for ordination. Some provinces have consecrated women as bishops; most still refuse.



The gradual acceptance of female ordination within the Anglican Communion :

There has historically been a threefold ministry in the church, consisting of deacons, priests and bishops. Prior to the mid-20th century, all provinces in the Anglican Communion had refused to consider female candidates as eligible for ordination to the priesthood, no matter what their qualifications. There was little discussion on the matter. However, in the 1960s, the evolving feminist movement began to have an impact on the Anglican Communion, particularly in the west. Discussions of the unthinkable began. By 1974, the first female priests were ordained in the U.S. By 1998, debate had been confined to the sizeable minority of provinces which still banned the ordination of women.

The important stages of this controversy are worth considering, because they could form a model for the Communion's consideration of the role of homosexuals in church life:

During the 1960s: There was a growing acceptance in western cultures of the need to give women equal opportunity as a moral imperative. This was largely driven by secular groups, very liberal religious groups, and individuals. Debate intensified within the Anglican Communion concerning female ordination as priests and even their consecration as bishops.1968 Lambeth Conference: Five resolutions were passed concerning the ordination of women: Resolution 34 stated that the theological arguments for and against female ordination are both inconclusive.Resolution 35 and 36 asked the provinces and the Anglican Consultative Council to continually exchange their views on female ordination.Resolution 37 asked any province that was seriously considering female ordination to not proceed until obtaining the advice of the Anglican Consultative Council.Resolution 38 was initiated by Women in the Anglican Communion. It recommended that provinces involve women as much as possible in worship services pending resolution of the female ordination question. 11974: Three bishops of the Episcopal Church, USA irregularly ordained eleven women. Massive outrage surfaced in the Church and throughout the rest of the Communion.1975: The Anglican Church of Canada authorized female ordination.1976: The Episcopal Church, USA passed a resolution declaring that "no one shall be denied access" to ordination into the three orders of ministry: as deacons, priests or bishops, on the basis of their sex.1978 Lambeth Conference: The situation had degenerated into a crisis. Some wondered if the Communion could survive intact. Resolution 20 recommended that all provinces open the Diaconate to women.Resolution 21 noted that: Since the previous Lambeth Conference in 1968, the provinces of Canada, Hong Kong, New Zealand and USA had ordained women as priests.The debate had "...caused distress and pain to many on both sides. To heal these and to maintain and strengthen fellowship is a primary pastoral responsibility of all, and especially of the bishops
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Pt2.

."The Conference recognized "the autonomy of each of its member Churches, acknowledging the legal right of each Church to make its own decision about the appropriateness of admitting women to Holy Orders."The Conference accepted both those provinces and dioceses which ordain women and those who don't, and urged that each respect the convictions of the other side.The resolution stated that: "...the holding together of diversity within a unity of faith and worship is part of the Anglican heritage." 2Resolution 22 recommended against the consecration of women as bishops unless "overwhelming support" existed in the province and diocese concerned, and then only after consultation with the other primates.1980s: Additional provinces started to ordain qualified women to the priesthood. Debate intensified within some provinces over whether female bishops should be consecrated as bishops.1988 Lambeth Conference: This was a critical time for the Anglican Communion. Female ordination remained a hot topic. There was a concern that the Episcopal Church, USA might shortly consecrate a woman as bishop. Resolution 1 was adopted by a vote of 423 to 28, with 19 abstentions. It begins: "That each province respect the decision and attitudes of other provinces in the ordination or consecration of women to the episcopate, without such respect necessarily indicating acceptance of the principles involved, maintaining the highest possible degree of communion with the provinces which differ." This resolution recognizes that each province is autonomous and has the authority to decide for itself whether to ordain women or to consecrate female priests as bishops. 3Part "c" of the resolution also recommended that the Archbishop of Canterbury, Robert Runcie, appoint a commission to monitor female ordination. The main purpose of the group was to preserve the unity of the church during this critical time. There was considerable concern that one or more provinces would break away from the Anglican Communion. None ever did. The commission's formal name was the "Archbishop of Canterbury's Commission on Communion and Women in the Episcopate" It became generally known as the Eames Commission because it was chaired by the Most Reverend Robin Eames, Archbishop of Armagh in Ireland.1989: The fear of the first female Anglican bishop materialized when the Anglican Church of New Zealand consecrated Penny Jamieson as the seventh Bishop of Dunedin. Later that year, the Episcopal Church, USA consecrated Barbara Harris, an African-American woman, as bishop.1994: Three official reports of the Eames Commission were published in one volume, "The Eames Commission, The Official Reports." The Commission was disbanded, but was replaced by the Eames Monitoring Group which continued to observe the female ordination issue in the Communion. 1997: Eames Monitoring Group report: The Eaves Monitoring Group issued a report. It said that the Communion wanted to "...uphold legitimate provincial autonomy while at the same time fostering a care and consideration for those ...." who opposed female ordination. The commission felt that their "...guidelines ...have helped Anglicans maintain the highest degree of communion with those who, with integrity, hold quite opposite views about the ordination of women." They estimated that there were "well over 4,000" female priests in the Communion, as well as "10 women bishops of which 6 are diocesan bishops." The provinces of Australia, Burundi, England, Kenya, Philippines, Scotland, Uganda, Wales, West Africa, and West Indies accepted women as deacons or priests. Brazil, Ireland, Mexico, and Southern Africa had accepted, in principle, women to all three ministries of the church: as deacons, priests and bishops.. The province of Aotearoa, New Zealand and Polynesia had joined Canada and the US by actually having women functioning in all three levels.


They reported that some English groups which are: "...opposed to women's ordination continue to feel marginalized. Others believe the Church of England went too far in accommodating conscientious dissent....The reports from the Provinces indicate occasional or even more general attitudes of contempt for opponents on both sides of the continuing debate. Communion in diversity requires charity and respect." The Province of the Anglican Church in South East Asia continued its opposition to ordaining women. They said, "It is wrong to consider the open process of reception where the principle is wrong and not accepted...there is no debate where scripture, tradition and common sense are clear." 41998: By this date, a slim majority of the provinces had decided to ordain women. There was little controversy at that year's Lambeth Commission concerning female deacons and priests. Female ordination had become almost a non-issue. In South Africa, for example, Bishop Duncan Buchanan of Johannesburg noted that of the two bishops in that province who strongly opposed women priests, one has retired and the other is about to retire. "On the whole it has been a huge and wonderful non-issue and I mean that in the best way. It is not that people have gone the same way, but that people have respected each other's point of view...Those of us who have ordained women to the priesthood have done so supported by an enormously loving brethren also in the episcopate who have disagreed with us." Eleven female bishops attended the 1998 Lambeth Conference. 8 were from the US, 2 from Canada, 1 from New Zealand. All but one had been ordained as priests between 1978 and 1984. They were thus pioneers from the beginning of their ordained ministries as deacons and priests. "Nearly all can tell tales of painful marginalization, even, in a few cases, of being spat upon, shouted at, verbally abused...With each bishop, however, such tales are told only rarely and then reluctantly, and usually, only to illustrate how much progress has been made." 3

A few conservative bishops protested. Almost 50 bishops planned to hold a parallel meeting. Others decided to attend the main conference, but not participate in liturgies or Bible studies where female bishops are present. At least one decided to not pose for the official group photograph if female bishops are included. Most of the protesting bishops were members of the Episcopal Synod of America (ESA), a conservative-reform group which has serious theological concerns over female ordination.

Barbara Harris, an African-American, is the bishop suffragan of Massachusetts (USA) and the first female bishop consecrated in the Anglican Communion. She had received death threats during her consent process. At the 1998 Lambeth Conference, she commented: "The people who are unappreciative of our presence here are probably just avoiding us...People have been very solicitous and kind."

A group of women bishops and conservative male bishops prepared a resolution on female ordination. It stated that bishops should not be compelled to act against their conscience by ordaining or licensing female priests. It was moved by Bishop Penny Jamieson of Dunedin (Aotearoa, New Zealand and Polynesia). She commented: "During our discussions there were deep and real disagreements. Our small group began by being suspicious of each other, but as trust between us began to grow it became our prayer that we could agree on an amendment that we could offer to this Communion as a way of deepening our communion in the heart of God while and because of our respect for our differences." The resolution was approved by the conference on 1998-AUG-6.

Included in the resolution was a call to the provinces that they allow "appropriate Episcopal ministry" as needed. This apparently refers to a practice in which a parish that was opposed to women priests could "declare themselves out of communion with ordained women and those who recognize their orders." 4 These congregations could then be cared for by a second bishop who is male -- often called a "flying bishop" -- rather than by their own diocesan bishop. He would serve congregations upon request, either in addition to or as an alternative to the diocesan bishop. This is a radical departure from Anglican tradition which had always recognized the authority of only a single bishop within each diocese.

2004: There are still many provinces in the world which do not permit female ordination. Religious groups tend to follow -- rather than lead -- secular trends towards women's rights. Anglican provinces in much of the far East, for example, will probably refuse to accept women for ordination until firm cultural beliefs about the roles of women are overturned. This could take many decades.Bishops in three dioceses in the U.S. also refuse to ordain women. However, this position will probably not survive the retirement or death of their present bishop. More details.Many more provinces refuse to consecrate women as bishops. As of 2004-OCT, the Church of England still refuses to consecrate priests as bishops if they happen to be female. It may well take generations -- conceivable even a century -- before sexism is totally abolished in the Anglican Communion, and women are allowed to fully serve in all positions within the church.:)
 

Aqualung

Tasty
Well, our church does not allow women to hold the priesthood. But they're allowed to give talks in our services, teach classes, and all that stuff. So I guess it depends on what you say "clergy" are. I agree with it. Nowhere in the Bible has God allowed women to hold the priesthood, so it would be really presumptuous of our church to say that they are going to allow it, because, of course, they know better than God. :rolleyes:
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
As far as we can tell, the ancient Gnostic organisations had women in all the same religious roles as men; teachers, preachers you name it. God is seen as both male and female in Gnostic thought, thus men are not placed above women.

Gnosticism on the whole did not place great emphasis on the clergy, preferring individual (unmediated) interaction with God.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Aqualung said:
Well, our church does not allow women to hold the priesthood. But they're allowed to give talks in our services, teach classes, and all that stuff. So I guess it depends on what you say "clergy" are. I agree with it. Nowhere in the Bible has God allowed women to hold the priesthood, so it would be really presumptuous of our church to say that they are going to allow it, because, of course, they know better than God. :rolleyes:
Excellent point...:clap

~Victor
 

Engyo

Prince of Dorkness!
Maize said:
Does your religion/denomination allow women clergy? Why or why not?

Nichiren Shu Buddhism does ordain women. Women are also sometimes appointed as resident minister at temples; I do not know whether a woman has yet attained the rank of Bishop.

Maize said:
When did your religion/denomination first begin to ordain women? ?

This question I will need to do some research on; I don't know the answer.

Maize said:
Do you agree with your religion/denomination's stance on women clergy?
Yes, especially since my wife is currently a novice minister studying for her ordination.
 

Dark_Waltz

Active Member
You know when I was a christian my vicar was giving me information on it, (I think he would kill me if he saw me now though i would hope he would understand)
Anyway the most interesting thing I found was that the people who were opposed to it were actually more women than men i was so shocked and appauled by this!
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Maize said:
Does your religion/denomination allow women clergy? Why or why not?
Greetings, greetings!

I'm a Baha'i, and we Baha'is don't allow female clergy.

Of course, we don't allow male clergy, either, so that nicely solves the problem. :)

Best,

Bruce
 

sdotbrown

Member
BruceDLimber said:
Greetings, greetings!

I'm a Baha'i, and we Baha'is don't allow female clergy.

Of course, we don't allow male clergy, either, so that nicely solves the problem. :)

Best,

Bruce

i'm not Baha'i but i also agree it is best to not have clergy. if someone wants to say something during worship, they should be allowed to say it. simple as that
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
I feel very strongly that women should serve *prepare yourself for Christian jibberish* wherever the Lord calls them to serve. IMHO, calling is the most important thing. When God calls a female to serve, the church hurts itself and denys itself her wonderful gifts.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
yup, as far as I know it has been that way from the very begining.
Women are the other half of humanity, we are just as powerful as men, but in our own girlish ways. :cool:
We give birth, we give blood, and we are connected to that life giving process.

Naturally we never got the same press as the male leaders, bias of the reporter and all. :rolleyes:

wa:do
 

ashai

Active Member
Ushta All

Yes , again with the exception of the Ultra Conservatives, ( Why is it that all religions have them?)

Why because Zarathushtra never established a clergy and because women and men are equal

Ushta Ve
Ashai

ushta te
 

Smoke

Done here.
There are different kinds of Quakers.
Those Quakers who have clergy have both male and female clergy.
The kind of Quakers I prefer have no clergy at all.
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
We have no female priests or bishops and we never have had. I can't see that we ever will have either and I agree with the point as (notably) does every Orthodox woman I've ever spoken to on the subject for a number of reasons, many of which I've gone into before. In any case this seems to be less of an issue for us than some as our married priests (who must have their wives' consent to be ordained) have wives who play an equally important, though different, role in the parish. They're even called priestesses (presbytera, khouria, preoteasa - all mean priestess and are titles for priests wives). We have had deaconesses in the past and there is a movement to resurrect the tradition in at least the Greek Church. I'd be for that with the proviso that it isn't just a Trojan Horse to overturn the rest of our Tradition. The role of an Orthodox deconess is (as with the priest's wife) rather different to, though no less important than, the role of deacon.

James
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
This week the general synod have taken further the Ordination of women Bishops.
The problems to be resolved concern how to deal with those conservative Anglo catholics who are fundamental opposed. A date has been set to complete these arrangements and establish women Bishops by 2012.

Women priests were first ordained in 1994.
This caused 400 male priests to transfer to the Roman Catholic Church.
since then more then 2000 women have been ordained ( a fair exchange).
38 churches in the Anglican Communion already have women Bishops.

Terry__________________________
Blessed are the gentle, they shall inherit the land
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
Terrywoodenpic said:
This caused 400 male priests to transfer to the Roman Catholic Church.
And not a few male clergy headed east, too, probably because we have married priests among other things. Actually, the deacon at the Greek Church where I was Chrismated was an Anglican convert who said this issue had contributed to his departure. Having said that, he was pretty scathing of those who left for this reason alone and we probably weren't the church of choice for as many dissenters because people who want to convert to Orthodoxy are only accepted when they agree and conversions caused simply by running away from a former confession rather than coming to agree with ours are generally discouraged.

James
 
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