Will the West be Pagan again?

[Anti-thesisofreason]

I still don't see a difference. A magical rite, in most traditions, is basically an appeal to the universe or some other non abrahamic deity for a certain end to come about. How is this distinct from prayer?

I agree prayer and magic can be the same thing it depends on how it is used.
Magic is about intent and not so much about asking for something to be done for you. It is about you making something happen with intent and Will.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

For the record, I just realized this thread has been derailed pretty bad. :sorry1:

The stations of the cross, ive only know catholics to do it. I dont mind seeing the cross in the church. Again, it identifies the edifice as a church. No idea what the rosary beads are for or symbolize. I dont really celebrate Christmas in the traditional way anyways because of the pagan roots. So no. Why cant we just focus on Christ? I think that is why we are told to go into our secret closets and go before the throne. Because we may have trouble focusing with things happening around us. So i see no need for us to focus on those things when we have Christ Himself to focus on.

Some people are very visual. Others are verbal. While one may get their best concentration on Jesus by looking at a picture or statue of Him, others may benefit more by reading or hearing His word. The same doesn't end with Christianity. So many faiths use statues, pictures, and sacred writings. The end result is the same. These things all help one to interact with one or more Deities. I think what bugs some the most is that I am so partial to golden statues. The one in my avatar is sitting on my dashboard right now. Without it helping me to focus on Anubis I would be in a lot of trouble at times.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Well, mysticism is a very diverse phenomenon - I think you might even find that within Christian mysticism itself there are some traditions you might consider closer to your beliefs than other traditions.

I'll let you know.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

Ooohhh. That is one thing we dont like to hear! LOL But I SOOOO agree with you there! We tell others to have no idols or graven images. But we have Jesus pics and crucifixes all over our homes and churches. Now if its on the building so that it can be identified as a church, i think its cool. But when we get to kneeling in front of it, and wearing the cross around our necks, i think we're doing the exact same thing we accuse others off. Christ is no longer on the cross. We kneel before His feet. Not what He died on

I wouldn't confuse symbolism with idolatry. Symbolism is a very powerful tool used to focus the mind on a particular purpose. Prayer is a type of meditation and when one uses a crucifix as a focus it helps to deepen and maintain the meditation instead of allowing the mind to wander. It keeps a person focused on their intent and purpose.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

For the record, I just realized this thread has been derailed pretty bad. :sorry1:



Some people are very visual. Others are verbal. While one may get their best concentration on Jesus by looking at a picture or statue of Him, others may benefit more by reading or hearing His word. The same doesn't end with Christianity. So many faiths use statues, pictures, and sacred writings. The end result is the same. These things all help one to interact with one or more Deities. I think what bugs some the most is that I am so partial to golden statues. The one in my avatar is sitting on my dashboard right now. Without it helping me to focus on Anubis I would be in a lot of trouble at times.

I think its what works for others. but again, im a bible believer. So im not one to do that. The cross has become a glorified bling piece. And going into my secret closet, i find it so much easier to focus on the things of God without distractions. And the more we do that, the easier it gets when we do have outside distractions. Part of "hiding His word in our hearts."

 

[enchanted_one1975]

I wouldn't confuse symbolism with idolatry.

That's my point. On the primarily Christian board I came from before settling in at RF, I came out of the broom closet. One member in particular kept insisting that as a Wiccan I am worshiping plants. He said he knows this for sure because one of his cousins has a friend who knows somebody that worships a plant. It's amazing how one's love and respect for nature can be so misinterpreted. When I decided to show them pics of one of my Anubis statues, I was so glad I had some golden ones on hand to make their heads spin with. They seem to associate golden statues with the golden calf.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

I wouldn't confuse symbolism with idolatry. Symbolism is a very powerful tool used to focus the mind on a particular purpose. Prayer is a type of meditation and when one uses a crucifix as a focus it helps to deepen and maintain the meditation instead of allowing the mind to wander. It keeps a person focused on their intent and purpose.

I agree. But i believe there is fine line between the two in most cases.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

That's my point. On the primarily Christian board I came from before settling in at RF, I came out of the broom closet. One member in particular kept insisting that as a Wiccan I am worshiping plants. He said he knows this for sure because one of his cousins has a friend who knows somebody that worships a plant. It's amazing how one's love and respect for nature can be so misinterpreted. When I decided to show them pics of one of my Anubis statues, I was so glad I had some golden ones on hand to make their heads spin with. They seem to associate golden statues with the golden calf.

That hilarious! :biglaugh:

 

[enchanted_one1975]

I agree. But i believe there is fine line between the two in most cases.

Not really...Do you use an item as a means to help you reach out to a Deity or do you believe the item is the Deity? That is the difference.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

I agree. But i believe there is fine line between the two in most cases.

In my opinion the fine line is crossed when one doesn't understand the difference. It's like confusing the map for the territory.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

In my opinion the fine line is crossed when one doesn't understand the difference. It's like confusing the map for the territory.

I agree. LOL

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Back to the OP though. I believe that it is possible for the west to be Pagan again. I just don't think we will see it in our lifetime. Paganism encompasses so many older faiths that there is at least one that could make sense to everyone. All it would take is for a few other religions to lose popularity. It has happened over the years. It just takes times and a lot of bloody wars. The obstacle is that us Pagans are not usually the kind to kill someone for not believing the same as we do, so we are not apt to start a war to convert anyone to Paganism. We only want those who's hearts are in it. It is then that they are embraced with love and a very warm welcome.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Lyrical just curious, do you think Paganism a bad thing? You are aware Christianity is pretty well Pagan right? I say that in the best of ways by the way, not to slam Christianity. To me, Paganism isn't a bad thing at all. It's good that Christianity is Pagan.

 

[Azakel]

Christianity is Pagan.

Christianity is not Pagan. Even though it's a broad term it has to do with Non-Abrahamic religions, that includes Christianity.

 

[Gentoo]

It may, then again, it may not. Either way, it doesn't matter much to me.

 

[Panda]

It may, then again, it may not. Either way, it doesn't matter much to me.

I agree with the penguin on this one.

 

[sunsplash]

Is Paganism going to dominate the west again?

Can you clarify "again" for me, please, and what countries are considered the "west?" I was (perhaps falsely) under the impression that the U.S. (and Canada similarly) was founded on Christian prinicples by protestants escaping Catholic persecution in Europe. Are you including the entire western hemisphere that would include all ancient tribal religions as well...Maya, Aztec, Native American, etc? When was the last time paganism dominated?

Thanks

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I am counting the Native American spirituality as part of that, yes

 

[Rainbow Mage]

When I say the West, I mean North America, and western Europe where Paganistic religions is growing in large numbers.

 

[no-body]

Like Buddhism and Deism those in the west will incorporate terms and rituals from it but they will flatly deny that they are in anyway practicing paganism.

Labels and stereotypes are a big thing in the west, when you say pagan people think of hippies, fat people in pointy hats talking about the "goddess" and awkward teenagers drinking cats blood not what it actually is.