QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
This is not about what seems logical to you because God does not operate according to logic, God transcends logic. Hypothetically, since God is omnipotent, God COULD communicate His message to everyone in the world, but humans could not understand it because they do not have that capability because they do not have a divine mind.
God did not give us all a divine mind because He chose not to, no doubt because He never planned to communicate directly to us ordinary humans.
IF god didn't want to give us all the same abilities he gave special messengers so we could understand his message, why didn't he just give HIMSELF the same abilities that he gives to his special messengers to convey his message directly to common mortals?
As I just said above, God DOES have the ability to convey His message to ordinary humans, but ordinary humans do not have the ability to understand God’s message, so the LIMITATION is not a limitation God has, it is a limitation that ordinary humans have.
Now let’s talk logic. What reason on earth would God have to communicate the SAME exact message to everyone in the world (even if everyone could understand it? I have heard all the arguments as to why atheists think God should do that so I doubt you will surprise me with a new argument, but go ahead and then I will see if it is the same as I have heard before, for which I have answers memorized.
Another question is why shouldn’t God communicate one message to one Messenger in every age and allow Him to disseminate that message to everyone? That sounds a lot more efficient to me than communicating the same message to everyone. Then of course we would have to imagine what would happen if everyone got the SAME message from God. (This is not even taking into consideration what I said before, that everyone is not worthy of getting their own personal message and that that would make it too easy for people to believe in God.)
Aside from this, we have a slight detail I failed to mention before: Baha’u’llah wrote 15,000 tablets, so even if everyone COULD understand what was revealed to Baha’u’llah, is everyone going to be able to write all that down to refer to later? And then what would happen if that was even possible? Would everyone interpret the same message the exact same way? That would be impossible.
So just imagine 7.8 billion people all getting this message from God and interpreting it differently. What did God mean by that? Oh I dunno John, what do you think? And so on and so forth. Can you imagine how much conflict that would cause between all the people in the world who could not get on the same page regarding what God meant by what He said? Even though there is one Bible, look at how many different Christian churches there are, but at least those of the same denominations agree on the basics because they are all reading the same Bible. Islam also has many sects but at least they agree on the basics because they are all reading the same book, the Qur’an.
But the point of my free ride analogy was that they have to do all the work, the professor is not going to do their homework for them. The professor is not going to go online and do their research although he might provide some references. My other point was that not everyone can make the cut and get a Phd, because there are requirements, so why should everyone make the cut and get a message from God, why shouldn’t there be requirements?
I already explained the pitfalls if God giving you a message directly.
That is exactly what God did; He provided evidence that He exists by sending Messengers, but He did not reveal all knowledge about Himself and we certainly do not know everything there is to know about God, we only know very little..
I said that a person would have to have “some faith” that God might exist in order to embark upon the journey and start searching for God and His message. I did not say that they would BELIEVE on faith that God exists with no evidence because that would be blind faith.
Moreover, if you already KNOW that something exists, why would you be seeking it? So if you already KNOW that God exists, why would you be seeking God? What you want is for God to prove that He exists to you so you will not have to seek, but it doesn’t work that way, not anymore than you are going to get a PhD without doing lots of research.
In my opinion a LAZY seeker is impatient and expects God to hand deliver verifiable evidence, whereas a sincere seeker patiently looks for the evidence and after he finds the evidence God had provided, the Messenger, he realizes that God exists and he chooses to believe in God. A sincere seeker does not employ a leap of faith and fool himself into believing that what he already wanted to find is actually what's there; rather, he does not make any assumptions until he has found the evidence and investigated it for himself. In the Baha’i Faith we call this the Independent Investigation of Truth.
How to Independently Investigate the Truth
(Continued on next post)
This is not about what seems logical to you because God does not operate according to logic, God transcends logic. Hypothetically, since God is omnipotent, God COULD communicate His message to everyone in the world, but humans could not understand it because they do not have that capability because they do not have a divine mind.
Oh I disagree. This is 100% about what seems logical to me. IF this god created me with a brain that uses logic and reason in order to determine what is true and what isn't THEN this god would have to be lacking in intelligence if it expected me to accept some god that doesn't operate according to logic or reason. Apparently god screwed up by giving me a brain that requires logic and reason. That seems like a major flaw in the system to me.
IF god didn't want to give us all the same abilities he gave special messengers so we could understand his message, why didn't he just give HIMSELF the same abilities that he gives to his special messengers to convey his message directly to common mortals?
As I just said above, God DOES have the ability to convey His message to ordinary humans, but ordinary humans do not have the ability to understand God’s message, so the LIMITATION is not a limitation God has, it is a limitation that ordinary humans have.
Sorry, but you didn't answer the question. You say that normal humans don't have the ability to understand god's message. So god created special messengers who CAN understand the message, but didn't want to give everyone that same ability because he never intended to communicate directly with everyone... for SOME reason... but you have no idea what it is. Okay... but god ALSO gave his special messengers ANOTHER special ability... that being the ability to do something that even God CANNOT do... that being the ability to convey his message in a way that normal humans CAN understand. So why did god not just give HIMSELF the ability to convey his message in a way that normal humans can understand?
Now let’s talk logic. What reason on earth would God have to communicate the SAME exact message to everyone in the world (even if everyone could understand it? I have heard all the arguments as to why atheists think God should do that so I doubt you will surprise me with a new argument, but go ahead and then I will see if it is the same as I have heard before, for which I have answers memorized.
Why would you possibly think that god would communicate the EXACT SAME message to everyone? That's the beauty of INDIVUAL communication... god would be able to alter his message so that it would be perfectly clear to each and every person who heard it, all based upon what that specific individual would require in order to understand the message perfectly.
And how exactly has this problem been solved by sending messengers, since they each have the exact same message for everyone?
So just imagine 7.8 billion people all getting this message from God and interpreting it differently. What did God mean by that? Oh I dunno John, what do you think? And so on and so forth. Can you imagine how much conflict that would cause between all the people in the world who could not get on the same page regarding what God meant by what He said?
And that's PRECISELY what we have when people are expected to all read the exact same message from a messenger... what did the messenger mean by that? I don't know, what do you think? I don't have to IMAGINE how much conflict it would create, I just have to look at the world in which I live. We have 7.8 billion people all getting these messages from the special messengers who can't get on the same page regarding what god meant by what the messengers say he said. How is this SO MUCH better than if god had simply given his message to each person individually in a way that they COULD completely understand... instead of the one-size-fits-all model of using divine messengers?
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