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Why People Fear Death?

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Disclaimer: The following opinions are my own -- I am usually wrong about most things -- and so you should examine these issues for yourself. On the other hand, only a boring, bumbling, berkle-snozer would disagree with me about anything.​

It is my esteemed and noble opinion that the fear of death is a major factor in how folks experience life, and a major motive behind much of human behavior.

How much of a factor and motive, you might ask? Ernest Becker, the psychiatrist who authored, The Denial of Death, thought it unconsciously drove most of human experience and behavior. And here the word "unconsciously" is key to understanding the fear of death.

I do not agree with all of Becker's ideas, but I am in complete agreement with him about the fear of death being very largely a hidden, unconscious fear. Ask ten people if they fear death, eight or nine will not be aware of themselves fearing it.

It seems to me especially easy for young people to be unaware of the influence the fear of death has over their experience of life and their behavior. As a rule of thumb, the younger we are, the less aware we are of our own mortality. But even older folks tend to be unaware of fearing death. As Becker observed, we hide our fears under a thousand disguises. That's to say, the fear is never truly suppressed in humans but instead manifests itself in as many ways as it possibly can depending on the psychology of the individual humans.

I believe a common enough way in which the fear manifests itself is in the desire many of us feel to accumulate and possess many more things than we perhaps need (or perhaps in some case, even truly want). Not always perhaps, but so often the desire or greed for more and more things than we really need is a mask for the fear of death.

But how does the fear of death translate into a greed for possessions?

I believe we can be driven to accumulate things in order to aggrandize or "build up" our egos. Our egos of course, are our psychological selves, our sense of "I", of "me", of "myself", etc.

Now, there is a profound sense -- a very profound sense -- in which the fear of death is not really a fear of death per se, but rather is a the fear of the ego dying. Put differently, if we humans did not have an ego, did not have a psychological self, we would be completely liberated from any and all fear of death -- we would not manifest the fear in any form at all -- it simply would not exist.

Thus, to strengthen, to aggrandize, or to in any way to build up the ego is in effect to guard against the death of the ego. That is, even when building up the ego is not intentionally to guard against the ego's death, the effect of building it up is to do so.

One can build up the ego in all manner of ways. For instance, to psychologically possess something -- psychologically possess anything -- is to aggrandize the ego. "That's mine!" is veritably a battle cry of the fear of death.

But so is psychologically owning a spouse, a pet, a house, a car, a religion, a politics, a friend, and so forth. Psychologically owning anything strengthens the ego -- and can thus be a response to the fear of the ego's death. To "psychologically own" something is to self-identify with it. It is to affirm something as in some way part of ones self.

Psychological ownership or self-identifying behavior almost always focuses one on the relationship between ones self and the possession. Indeed, the relationship usually becomes more important than the possession itself. When one psychologically owns ones spouse or partner, for instance, one typically does not so much affirm the spouse or partner, as one affirms the relationship between ones self and ones spouse or partner.

In all of this, the ego is strengthened.

Ironically, what strengthens the ego also strengthens the fear of the ego's death perhaps for the rather simple reason that "I" now have more to lose. Once, "I" did not own a car and consequently had no fear of losing a car. But now "I" own a car and so have a new fear in my life -- the loss of my car.

There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of ways in which the fear of the ego's death influences us on a moment by moment basis in both how we experience life, and in our behavior towards life.

Now, there is a difference of opinion about whether the ego, the psychological self, is identical to normal, everyday consciousness. Some say it is, some say the two things are merely so entwined that the one cannot exist without the other. Whatever the case, it is a simple fact that mystical experiences -- in which normal, everyday consciousness comes to an end, are also ego-less experiences. Moreover, people who experience such things sometimes -- but not always -- report both becoming aware of how they had been fearing death, and of simultaneously overcoming their fear of death.

I believe that were we to become fully aware of our fear of ego death, that fear would generally prove to be -- depending on the individual -- anywhere from anxiously unsettling to nearly crippling.That is one compelling reason NOT to precipitously rip the masks off our fear of the ego's death.

Yet, the fear manifests itself in so many life denying ways, in so many destructive ways, and has so many undesired consequences. I do not believe anyone who refuses to deal with the fear is likely to live as fully and as happily as they are capable of living.

If anyone reading this is curious about what might be done about the fear of dying, I would recommend meditation as a start towards a solution to the problem.

At least all of the above is how I see it. I'm probably quite wrong about most things, and simple minded about the rest.

Comments? Observations?
 

WalterTrull

Godfella
Look, I'm old, I had to force myself to read all that, but, because it is Sunstone...
Ego death is what I'm hoping for. "Merciful, just and pure". Man, not me, but hoping for it.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Fixed it for you.:)

Just so you know, messing with someone's quoted words is a rule violation on this forum. What you just did isn't serious, of course, but please don't get in the habit of it -- the mods will take after you for it.
 

Woberts

The Perfumed Seneschal
Just so you know, messing with someone's quoted words is a rule violation on this forum. What you just did isn't serious, of course, but please don't get in the habit of it -- the mods will take after you for it.
ok, I'll try not to get into a habit of it.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Comments? Observations?
Mostly agree. I conjecture fear of death becomes a lot more significant with preaching about hell fire, and then that fear works its way into society. Does Becker account for that hell fire teaching in his book? Maybe he is working from a skewed data set?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Disclaimer: The following opinions are my own -- I am usually wrong about most thing

I'll join you in happy wrongness.

Now, there is a profound sense -- a very profound sense -- in which the fear of death is not really a fear of death per se, but rather is a the fear of the ego dying. Put differently, if we humans did not have an ego, did not have a psychological self, we would be completely liberated from any and all fear of death -- we would not manifest the fear in any form at all -- it simply would not exist.

I agree. I know one person who decided she had lived long enough and it was time to go and went. Another in her last days kept saying "thank you" repeatedly as she was so grateful to have lived the life she did. My father-in-law feared death until the day he died and his last words were "I'm ready now" and died a while later.

Whether or not their ego was gone, I can't judge. But all three had, at one point, a profound letting go of fear.

Ironically, what strengthens the ego also strengthens the fear

Some have written that fear itself strengthens the ego. So there's circular reinforcement going on.

Rosemary Harris wrote the following about one way to approach fear:

My companion is fear
Walking behind me like a shadow.
He sees obstacles where none are,
He knows death as disintegration,
He comes from hell to cherish me
Saying 'turn right,' 'turn left,'
'Look, there is a lion in the road
And no resurrection.'

Yet I will make my torturer
My dear companion.
For in acceptance he grows honest,
Showing that a skeleton is only bones
And one moment no longer than another
And pain only sensation
Like the color of the rose,
Less than the falling of a leaf.

See, I shall turn my head,
Diminish him with pity,
Kill him with understanding
Even love . . .
Looking him in the eye
I shall observe his dwindling
Because he is only a shadow
Lost between me and the sun.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I'm 72 and I don't geeze very much at least not yet.
I am avoiding it the best that I can. For my birthday I now try to do one "Superman pushup" for every year that I am old, I began that only a couple of years ago. Not all in one shot, but scattered throughout the day. It is part of my personal fight against the inevitable.

Back to the OP, fear of death may very well be instinct. To avoid death is a positive trait. Unfortunately it appears that we cannot avoid it forever. As long as life is enjoyable I plan to strive to keep on.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
My experiences are rather unusual. I almost died three times from asthma before I was 13 years old. And I have always known that eating the wrong food could kill me.

I have also almost died (again from asthma) as an adult. I distinctly remember thinking (as I got tunnel vision from anoxia) that I had lived a good life and the only regret was that I couldn't spend more time with my wife.

So, speaking from experience, I don't think I fear death in the way many others appear to. What I fear more is not living life while I can. I know deep down I will cease to exist at some point. I am OK with that. But I want to actually *live* life in the mean time.

So far, so good. :)
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
My experiences are rather unusual. I almost died three times from asthma before I was 13 years old. And I have always known that eating the wrong food could kill me.

I have also almost died (again from asthma) as an adult. I distinctly remember thinking (as I got tunnel vision from anoxia) that I had lived a good life and the only regret was that I couldn't spend more time with my wife.

So, speaking from experience, I don't think I fear death in the way many others appear to. What I fear more is not living life while I can. I know deep down I will cease to exist at some point. I am OK with that. But I want to actually *live* life in the mean time.

So far, so good. :)


I am not that bad, though when I quit smoking my body gave me one last heck of an asthma attack as a parting gift for my habit. I got a ride to the ER and though people complain about waiting for treatment take it from me, it is a bad sign when they take you back right away. Three days later I went home.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
I am not that bad, though when I quit smoking my body gave me one last heck of an asthma attack as a parting gift for my habit. I got a ride to the ER and though people complain about waiting for treatment take it from me, it is a bad sign when they take you back right away. Three days later I went home.

Yep. Asthma is one of the reasons you will get treatment *immediately*. Once I was in the hospital for a week. I don't recall the first few days.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
My experiences are rather unusual. I almost died three times from asthma before I was 13 years old. And I have always known that eating the wrong food could kill me.

I have also almost died (again from asthma) as an adult. I distinctly remember thinking (as I got tunnel vision from anoxia) that I had lived a good life and the only regret was that I couldn't spend more time with my wife.

So, speaking from experience, I don't think I fear death in the way many others appear to. What I fear more is not living life while I can. I know deep down I will cease to exist at some point. I am OK with that. But I want to actually *live* life in the mean time.

So far, so good. :)
Not to derail the thread, but I might be one of the few who could honestly put this on my tombstone....
720X720-img-1581.JPG
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I was going to try for a drive by one-liner, but some of your post made me a bit queasy.
Disclaimer: The following opinions are my own -- I am usually wrong about most things -- and so you should examine these issues for yourself. On the other hand, only a boring, bumbling, berkle-snozer would disagree with me about anything.​

It is my esteemed and noble opinion that the fear of death is a major factor in how folks experience life, and a major motive behind much of human behavior.

How much of a factor and motive, you might ask? Ernest Becker, the psychiatrist who authored, The Denial of Death, thought it unconsciously drove most of human experience and behavior. And here the word "unconsciously" is key to understanding the fear of death.

I do not agree with all of Becker's ideas, but I am in complete agreement with him about the fear of death being very largely a hidden, unconscious fear. Ask ten people if they fear death, eight or nine will not be aware of themselves fearing it.

It seems to me especially easy for young people to be unaware of the influence the fear of death has over their experience of life and their behavior. As a rule of thumb, the younger we are, the less aware we are of our own mortality. But even older folks tend to be unaware of fearing death. As Becker observed, we hide our fears under a thousand disguises. That's to say, the fear is never truly suppressed in humans but instead manifests itself in as many ways as it possibly can depending on the psychology of the individual humans.
In agreement to this point. So far, so good.

I believe a common enough way in which the fear manifests itself is in the desire many of us feel to accumulate and possess many more things than we perhaps need (or perhaps in some case, even truly want). Not always perhaps, but so often the desire or greed for more and more things than we really need is a mask for the fear of death.

But how does the fear of death translate into a greed for possessions?
Largely agree. It's all about over-compensating due to unconscious impulses.

I believe we can be driven to accumulate things in order to aggrandize or "build up" our egos. Our egos of course, are our psychological selves, our sense of "I", of "me", of "myself", etc
Due to the stunted vision of self that most human animals hold, yes.

Now, there is a profound sense -- a very profound sense -- in which the fear of death is not really a fear of death per se, but rather is a the fear of the ego dying. Put differently, if we humans did not have an ego, did not have a psychological self, we would be completely liberated from any and all fear of death -- we would not manifest the fear in any form at all -- it simply would not exist.
Obviously.

Thus, to strengthen, to aggrandize, or to in any way to build up the ego is in effect to guard against the death of the ego. That is, even when building up the ego is not intentionally to guard against the ego's death, the effect of building it up is to do so.

One can build up the ego in all manner of ways. For instance, to psychologically possess something -- psychologically possess anything -- is to aggrandize the ego. "That's mine!" is veritably a battle cry of the fear of death
This is where you slide off the rails, imho. I will admit that it is a possibility for some people, for sure. The problem is that to apply it to people in general is not especially helpful. As I have explained several times, it isn't the ego that is the problem. The problem is egotism and egotistical behavior. This is an important distinction.

But so is psychologically owning a spouse, a pet, a house, a car, a religion, a politics, a friend, and so forth. Psychologically owning anything strengthens the ego -- and can thus be a response to the fear of the ego's death. To "psychologically own" something is to self-identify with it. It is to affirm something as in some way part of ones self.
In that all these things can be deflections or distractions empowered simply to procrastinate from dealing with identity issues or behavioral issues, sure. However, when we create something new, something positive, whether it be a piece of music, an inspirational poem, a gripping narrative, etc, we are very much the "owner" of that work and intense effort. Creativity is never a negative, though it can, on occasion, have unexpected consequences.

Psychological ownership or self-identifying behavior almost always focuses one on the relationship between ones self and the possession. Indeed, the relationship usually becomes more important than the possession itself. When one psychologically owns ones spouse or partner, for instance, one typically does not so much affirm the spouse or partner, as one affirms the relationship between ones self and ones spouse or partner.
Well, yes, many relationships are unhealthy simply because everyone has different psychological baggage and the match is rarely perfect, though the pairing can often be quite complimentary.

In all of this, the ego is strengthened.
In a well balanced individual, yes, the ego should be strong, but not single or narrow-minded. There is more to identity/personality than the ego.

Ironically, what strengthens the ego also strengthens the fear of the ego's death perhaps for the rather simple reason that "I" now have more to lose. Once, "I" did not own a car and consequently had no fear of losing a car. But now "I" own a car and so have a new fear in my life -- the loss of my car.
Well, yes, as we go through life we gain attachment to the things we love or feel we need. That should not be unexpected though I doubt that fear of death is greatly exacerbated by this. If the fear is latent, it will colour actions, but it won't be the only contributing factor in behaviors.

There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of ways in which the fear of the ego's death influences us on a moment by moment basis in both how we experience life, and in our behavior towards life.
Are you sure you are not confusing this fear of death with general fear of the unknown? No one knows what happens after death, it is therefore part of the great unknown, and though we should have a healthy respect for "the unknown" we should not outright, think the worst, and fear it for no reason. Doing so is not conducive to furthering good mental health.

Now, there is a difference of opinion about whether the ego, the psychological self, is identical to normal, everyday consciousness. Some say it is, some say the two things are merely so entwined that the one cannot exist without the other. Whatever the case, it is a simple fact that mystical experiences -- in which normal, everyday consciousness comes to an end, are also ego-less experiences. Moreover, people who experience such things sometimes -- but not always -- report both becoming aware of how they had been fearing death, and of simultaneously overcoming their fear of death.
For me, it was never about "ego loss", but rather about an important shift in focus on what identity is or what self is. There was a distinct psychological expansion and my wee ego clearly saw that it was an important aspect of a far larger psychological gestalt than it has previously imagined. Though dwarfed, it did not feel threatened and understood that it was a necessary part of the larger whole. It was the spokesperson for the whole in the physical reality or its physical counterpart. I remember laughing at the idea that I was a dead, at that moment, as I was ever going to get. It was an empowering sentiment.

I believe that were we to become fully aware of our fear of ego death, that fear would generally prove to be -- depending on the individual -- anywhere from anxiously unsettling to nearly crippling.That is one compelling reason NOT to precipitously rip the masks off our fear of the ego's death.
100% agreement. The British have an expression, "Softly, softly..." (meaning with kid gloves.)

Yet, the fear manifests itself in so many life denying ways, in so many destructive ways, and has so many undesired consequences. I do not believe anyone who refuses to deal with the fear is likely to live as fully and as happily as they are capable of living.
One of my personal achievements was the vanquishing of my fears. I have no unnatural fears, period, though I have a healthy respect for a mother bear minding her cub.

If anyone reading this is curious about what might be done about the fear of dying, I would recommend meditation as a start towards a solution to the problem.
Excellent advice @Sunstone but I might add something a bit more adventurous too. This was one of my earliest posts on RF and remains one of my favorites. *shameless plug*

The mind of a child
(Note: This exercise is not for the faint of heart.)

IAt least all of the above is how I see it. I'm probably quite wrong about most things, and simple minded about the rest.
I feel you pain and can certainly relate. :)
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
Disclaimer: The following opinions are my own -- I am usually wrong about most things -- and so you should examine these issues for yourself. On the other hand, only a boring, bumbling, berkle-snozer would disagree with me about anything.​

It is my esteemed and noble opinion that the fear of death is a major factor in how folks experience life, and a major motive behind much of human behavior.

How much of a factor and motive, you might ask? Ernest Becker, the psychiatrist who authored, The Denial of Death, thought it unconsciously drove most of human experience and behavior. And here the word "unconsciously" is key to understanding the fear of death.

I do not agree with all of Becker's ideas, but I am in complete agreement with him about the fear of death being very largely a hidden, unconscious fear. Ask ten people if they fear death, eight or nine will not be aware of themselves fearing it.

It seems to me especially easy for young people to be unaware of the influence the fear of death has over their experience of life and their behavior. As a rule of thumb, the younger we are, the less aware we are of our own mortality. But even older folks tend to be unaware of fearing death. As Becker observed, we hide our fears under a thousand disguises. That's to say, the fear is never truly suppressed in humans but instead manifests itself in as many ways as it possibly can depending on the psychology of the individual humans.

I believe a common enough way in which the fear manifests itself is in the desire many of us feel to accumulate and possess many more things than we perhaps need (or perhaps in some case, even truly want). Not always perhaps, but so often the desire or greed for more and more things than we really need is a mask for the fear of death.

But how does the fear of death translate into a greed for possessions?

I believe we can be driven to accumulate things in order to aggrandize or "build up" our egos. Our egos of course, are our psychological selves, our sense of "I", of "me", of "myself", etc.

Now, there is a profound sense -- a very profound sense -- in which the fear of death is not really a fear of death per se, but rather is a the fear of the ego dying. Put differently, if we humans did not have an ego, did not have a psychological self, we would be completely liberated from any and all fear of death -- we would not manifest the fear in any form at all -- it simply would not exist.

Thus, to strengthen, to aggrandize, or to in any way to build up the ego is in effect to guard against the death of the ego. That is, even when building up the ego is not intentionally to guard against the ego's death, the effect of building it up is to do so.

One can build up the ego in all manner of ways. For instance, to psychologically possess something -- psychologically possess anything -- is to aggrandize the ego. "That's mine!" is veritably a battle cry of the fear of death.

But so is psychologically owning a spouse, a pet, a house, a car, a religion, a politics, a friend, and so forth. Psychologically owning anything strengthens the ego -- and can thus be a response to the fear of the ego's death. To "psychologically own" something is to self-identify with it. It is to affirm something as in some way part of ones self.

Psychological ownership or self-identifying behavior almost always focuses one on the relationship between ones self and the possession. Indeed, the relationship usually becomes more important than the possession itself. When one psychologically owns ones spouse or partner, for instance, one typically does not so much affirm the spouse or partner, as one affirms the relationship between ones self and ones spouse or partner.

In all of this, the ego is strengthened.

Ironically, what strengthens the ego also strengthens the fear of the ego's death perhaps for the rather simple reason that "I" now have more to lose. Once, "I" did not own a car and consequently had no fear of losing a car. But now "I" own a car and so have a new fear in my life -- the loss of my car.

There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of ways in which the fear of the ego's death influences us on a moment by moment basis in both how we experience life, and in our behavior towards life.

Now, there is a difference of opinion about whether the ego, the psychological self, is identical to normal, everyday consciousness. Some say it is, some say the two things are merely so entwined that the one cannot exist without the other. Whatever the case, it is a simple fact that mystical experiences -- in which normal, everyday consciousness comes to an end, are also ego-less experiences. Moreover, people who experience such things sometimes -- but not always -- report both becoming aware of how they had been fearing death, and of simultaneously overcoming their fear of death.

I believe that were we to become fully aware of our fear of ego death, that fear would generally prove to be -- depending on the individual -- anywhere from anxiously unsettling to nearly crippling.That is one compelling reason NOT to precipitously rip the masks off our fear of the ego's death.

Yet, the fear manifests itself in so many life denying ways, in so many destructive ways, and has so many undesired consequences. I do not believe anyone who refuses to deal with the fear is likely to live as fully and as happily as they are capable of living.

If anyone reading this is curious about what might be done about the fear of dying, I would recommend meditation as a start towards a solution to the problem.

At least all of the above is how I see it. I'm probably quite wrong about most things, and simple minded about the rest.

Comments? Observations?

The term Treasures was used by Jesus to explain what an accumulation meant. Mammon or God? Treasures that exist forever is much greater then those we lose to decay, theft, etc.

One must view death as something where they lose or gain.

To me, I have experienced greatness the more I learn, spend time in/with, spirituality. I imagine a greater experience once I am not hampered by this Aeon and body. Everyone physically loses their imperfect flesh.

We each decide whether it is worth the trek of spiritual understanding, or what we see as all that their is.

There is no fear of death in what Christ taught. He actually said to die first to live. A fear many choose not to do, even when it's while they breathe.
 
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