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Why This Growing Trend?

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Trying as best I can to take a look at the world from the perspective of a modern 14-year-old kid, here's what I see:

For the last several generations the world I'm going to inherit has been run by a bunch of shallow, hedonistic, self -indulgent idiots who care more about the kind of language that people use in everyday speech than they do about things that could actually destroy the planet, or basically turn into a huge unusable garbage dump.

What is there to feel good about?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Personally, I still think segments of our population still suffer from the glorification of male chauvinism. I've recently seen a couple of marriages fall apart because the husband didn't 'get it', so maybe that influences this thought. That would explain the higher incidence of depression in young women.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This is demonstrably false.
There is no correlation at all between these data points.

But there absolutely is between social media use and mental health. Regardless of religiosity.

There is a mammoth correlation and we were warned of it in the 1800's

We can offer warning after warning about what we will do to each other, but better still we can also offer the promise that out of all this, we will change for the better.

Here is but an example.

It is not only in the Súriy-i-Mulúk has Bahá'u'lláh warned mankind of the consequences of rejecting His call, but also in numerous Tablets revealed later, He has clearly foreshadowed the torment and trials which would afflict an unbelieving humanity which turned away from its God and rejected His supreme Manifestation. Thus is but one passages gleaned from the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, that portray the spectacle awaiting a world steeped in perversity and heedlessness:

"The time for the destruction of the world and its people hath arrived.' 'The hour is approaching when the most great convulsion will have appeared.' 'The promised day is come, the day when tormenting trials will have surged above your heads, and beneath your feet, saying: "Taste ye what your hands have wrought!"' 'Soon shall the blasts of His chastisement beat upon you, and the dust of hell enshroud you.' 'And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake.' 'The day is approaching when its [civilization's] flame will devour the cities, when the Tongue of Grandeur will proclaim: "The Kingdom is God's, the Almighty, the All-Praised!"

The youth if today have not been given the hope of what personal morality, trustworthiness and Truthfulness can impart on humanity as a whole. Amongst all these trials there is hope, there is purpose. That hope and purpose cannot be found in material possessions and security of wealth. It cannot be found in any worldly pursuit, unless that pursuit has purpose to serve the human race.

So, although the present day and the immediate future, as foretold by Bahá'u'lláh, are calamitous and very dark, we are indeed reassured by His promise that the distant future is so glorious that no man can as yet visualize it. He states:

"After a time, all the governments on earth will change. Oppression will envelop the world. And following a universal convulsion, the sun of justice will rise from the horizon of the unseen realm."

It could be the current civil conflicts and wars are the start where the convulsions either coincide with the most great convulsion.

This is also offered, an Interesting thought from what is found in the Baha'i Writings

".....The burning of cities; the contamination of the atmosphere of the earth - these stand out as the signs and portents that must either herald or accompany the retributive calamity...."

So that offere that "...signs and portents that must either herald or accompany the retributive calamity...."

So Shoghi Effendi is saying about what Baha'u'llah offered, that even if we face a potential nuclear war, which would cause both "the burning of cities and the contamination of the atmosphere of the earth" is not, alone, what the "retributive calamity" is. Rather, the "retributive calamity" either will accompany or come after this "burning of cities [and] contamination of the atmosphere of the earth."

All this will bring about a Lesser Peace, many will survive to build that lesser peace, many will not.

An interesting aspect of the Lesser Peace is that as it is being built, ther move to do away with religion will gain momentum.

As our collective mental health will all suffer through all these processes, one can buck that trend and live in Love, hope and peace throughout it all. If only all our children could see and live that hope!

Regards Tony
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
No, there isn't.

Your bare claims and religious preaching notwithstanding.

Look at any societal health index. If anything, the correlation is reverse.
One might ask @Shadow Wolf how
religion embiggened her spirit....Not!

Kids are individuals, each with different
needs. Some religions (the non-evil ones)
might benefit some kids. Others (eg, me)
thrived without religion. Public schools tried
to force Christianity on me. They failed.
 
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Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
Personally, I still think segments of our population still suffer from the glorification of male chauvinism. I've recently seen a couple of marriages fall apart because the husband didn't 'get it', so maybe that influences this thought. That would explain the higher incidence of depression in young women.
You mean he didn't get "it?"
 

chlotilde

Madame Curie
Trying as best I can to take a look at the world from the perspective of a modern 14-year-old kid, here's what I see:
If you have a 14 yo, you'll know that that's your perspective, not a 14 yo.:)

Most kids today want to be social influencers when they grow up, so that tells you where their head is.

American kids want to be famous on YouTube, and kids in China want to go to space: survey

edit to add: if they really cared about all those things you listed, then maybe they would want to be someone who makes those changes, instead of someone who just wants to complain about it on you tube.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
If you have a 14 yo, you'll know that that's your perspective, not a 14 yo.:)

I doubt it.

Most kids today want to be social influencers when they grow up, so that tells you where their head is.

American kids want to be famous on YouTube, and kids in China want to go to space: survey

edit to add: if they really cared about all those things you listed, then maybe they would want to be someone who makes those changes,

Or maybe they just figure it's too late.

Or maybe they just got done watching a couple of generations of people who supposedly "wanted to make those changes" and the hypocrisy has left a bad taste in their mouth.

instead of someone who just wants to complain about it on you tube.

"Hey kids, sorry about trashing the house with the party we threw last night, but if you really cared about the mess you'd just shut up and clean it up instead of complaining about it".
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
One might ask @Shadow Wolf how
religion embiggened her spirit....Not!

Kids are individuals, each with different
needs. Some religions (the non-evil ones)
might benefit some kids. Others (eg, me)
thrived without religion. Public schools tried
to force Christianity on me. They failed.
More like poisoned it to near death.
 

chlotilde

Madame Curie
Or maybe they just figure it's too late.

Or maybe they just got done watching a couple of generations of people who supposedly "wanted to make those changes" and the hypocrisy has left a bad taste in their mouth.

"Hey kids, sorry about trashing the house with the party we threw last night, but if you really cared about the mess you'd just shut up and clean it up instead of complaining about it".

As a bit of an optimist, here's my philosophy (and I'm in a playful mood so I'm going to borrow other people's words).

“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.” – William Shakespeare

Because it is always “the best of times and the worst of times”. -Mark 13: 1-8; no wait, that’s Dickens; no, it was probably Socrates but he didn’t write it down; either way, Led Zeppelin sung it best.

And “Every generation blames the one before." Mike and the mechanics…Orwell…Socrates…when it’s really all Adam’s fault.

and my generation partied with Prince like it was 1999 (when the amazon would be totally destroyed and we'd run out of oxygen), because "Mommy, Why does everyone have a bomb?"

But

“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” G. Michael Hopf; no wait, that was, Ibn Khaldoun; no, it was Plato (and 2 Corinthians 12:10 in some sense)

It seems to me, Man survives each crisis by causing another.

So what's the current crisis? CO2? Some see a blessing in it as it’s staving off the next ice age, which could be far worse. And our kid’s kids will have to deal with the environmental fall out of all this mining we’re doing for metals to make solar cells/batteries/wind mills (and the fallout is already taking place in China/Chile etc.). And my great grandchildren will blame today's 14 yo.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
As a bit of an optimist, here's my philosophy (and I'm in a playful mood so I'm going to borrow other people's words).

“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.” – William Shakespeare

Because it is always “the best of times and the worst of times”. -Mark 13: 1-8; no wait, that’s Dickens; no, it was probably Socrates but he didn’t write it down; either way, Led Zeppelin sung it best.

And “Every generation blames the one before." Mike and the mechanics…Orwell…Socrates…when it’s really all Adam’s fault.

and my generation partied with Prince like it was 1999 (when the amazon would be totally destroyed and we'd run out of oxygen), because "Mommy, Why does everyone have a bomb?"

But

“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” G. Michael Hopf; no wait, that was, Ibn Khaldoun; no, it was Plato (and 2 Corinthians 12:10 in some sense)

It seems to me, Man survives each crisis by causing another.

So what's the current crisis? CO2? Some see a blessing in it as it’s staving off the next ice age, which could be far worse. And our kid’s kids will have to deal with the environmental fall out of all this mining we’re doing for metals to make solar cells/batteries/wind mills (and the fallout is already taking place in China/Chile etc.). And my great grandchildren will blame today's 14 yo.
I think this kind of thinking is a perfect example of how and why things got to the state that they are now.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
A lot of people tend to get depressed or sad because it's so hard to find anyone that loves them, is my impression. The human need to love and be loved is wired into our brains.
That, I agree with.
Living in a loveless world - that is, where most people do not understand, or know love, yes, many people grow up feeling insecure, or overly self conscious.

Not having enough love hits some worse that others though, just like you suggest, according to things like low self esteem (such as from not being treated as valuable or such by one's parents, etc.).
True.

And temperament is also important, as some people are more wired to be extroverted, etc., so that they really need that relatively constant (or near constant) level of relationship interaction to feel more energetic.
Different personalities do play a role in how we interact, but I think that all leads back to being shaped by the environment, and those around us.
Since man turned from God, we are shaped by imperfection, in an imperfect world..

I don't know about you, or others, but for me, it is clear that God=Love=God. -God=Loveless=AllSortsOfOtherIlls.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Long winters. Not many people react well to vitamin D deficits.

anyway, I think that overall the level of happiness in Scandinavia is highest, at least according to recent polls.

Finland is in the top position in the world happiness report in 2022. Followed by Denmark and Iceland in second and third place. Switzerland, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Sweden, Norway, Israel and New Zealand, were among the top 10 'happiest' countries in the world [1].

please note the very high level of secularism on those countries. Now the wuestion is: are we happy because we are secular, or are we secular because we are happy?
ciao

- viole
The thing is though viole, we aren't talking about "highest" verses "less higher than".
So, for anyone to put the blame of increasing depression on religion... as it seems you always do... you and how many others here, is really an outright baseless unsupported attack on religion... isn't it?
What drives that viole? Bitter hatred for God... the Bible... Religion? What?
Would be nice to hear you say it.

Evidence shows... if you care to check... that religion actually plays a role in limiting depression.
How much more so, good religion, as opposed to not so good religion.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
religion actually plays a role in limiting depression.
Yes, like lithium, probably. Maybe Marx just got the wrong chemical, by confusing two latin words. Who can say?

And I have no hatred for God. Where did you get that from?
I don't believe in God. I don't believe in Mother Goose either. And I think it would be silly to say I hate Mother Goose. And since your God and Mother Goose have the same plausibility, and evidence, it would be highly irrational, from my side, to hate one and not the other.

I am just pointing out that secularism correlates positively with high levels of happiness. Nothing more, nothing less. According to polls, at least.

If I you were forced to leave your country, and you could only choose between a very religious country, and a very secular country, without knowing which one, what are your best odds?

But again, I am not sure whether we are secular because we are happy, or we are happy because we are secular. I tend for the former.

For when you are happy, you have a strong social safety, high levels of education for everyone, a guaranteed high standard of living, free health insurance for you and your kids, free kindergarten, equal opportunities at work, and even a free place when you are too old to be alone, then, well, what do you need a god for?

Ciao

- viole
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
"Social" media has diddly squat to do with socializing.
Like... literally NOTHING.

Actual socializing is GOOD and HEALTHY. It's about going out and like actually talking to people face to face.

Social media on the other hand is about sitting alone behind your computer trolling, being narcistic, being lied to about how "perfect" other people's lives are, about jealousy, about pettyness, about body shaming,...

It's pure poison for the mind.
There goes all the data from experts... down the tubes... Tagmonster has spoken.

Is social media the problem though? Isn't that a lot like saying, the internet is a problem, or television?
Granted, socializing offline and online in this world can, and does have negative consequences, but that's true about basically everything... depending on whom one is with. Proverbs 13:20

If for example, all the people on social media were as described at John 13:35, one would not expect the negative effects you mentioned.
Like the internet, and television, what we choose to view, is the same as what we choose to say... or what we only tend to say.

We can choose to use the internet wisely, or not. We can choose to use social media wisely, or not.
Neither are responsible for how we behave.
What's responsible for our behavior, is our values... which we are either taught, or learned from our environment... whether home or elsewhere.

It's evident that what we need is a better society of people. That would alleviate much of the depression.
...and yes, on social media, is where we open ourselves to the society of people we have to live with today.
I look forward to that changing.
 
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