Why the forbidden fruit?

[Colt]

People? Could be. Or... he was afraid of the beasts of the field and the creepy crawlies of the earth... in common language demons.

The narrative indicates “people” and a place called Nod where Cain finds a wife. A good detective would have issues with the story as presented.


Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.”

So Cain bore the tribal mark of his mothers people. In that age people didn’t wonder around alone in the world with no tribal mark!

 

[Wildswanderer]

Innocence is where you are when you are a child. But we don't stay children, and no loving parent tries to keep their kids babies.

You can be growing and still innocent.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Hmmmmm.... completely different.... so Adam and Eve aren't made in the likeness of an image of God? story as God wanted his children to advance compared to the one reason to understand the story as God wanting to inhibit his children.

This is why I prefer not to post with you -- because you often put words in my mouth that are not there. For example, I did not say mankind was not made in God's image. My comment was limited to that Gen 1 is a completely separate creation myth from Gen 2-3.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

But, either way, if one offers an explanation as to why something occurred

Your Christian theology of the need for a savior from sins is NOT at all related to the question of why God preferred for adam and eve to remain ignorant. Again, please do not bring into the thread other subjects that are not related to the opening post.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You can be growing and still innocent.

Spiritual growth absolutely necessitates an understanding fo good and evil.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The crafty beast was working against Gods will when he was working on fooling Eve. Therefore he was already fallen, sin was already on the earth.
Cain feared people out in the world when he was preparing to leave his family. The world was already populated.

Yes, Satan became a fallen cherubic angel by the time he told the first lie and that was to Eve.
The whole world did Not have to be populated for Cain to be in fear.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Your Christian theology of the need for a savior from sins is NOT at all related to the question of why God preferred for adam and eve to remain ignorant. Again, please do not bring into the thread other subjects that are not related to the opening post.

Adam and Eve were Not ignorant because they were educated informed by the words found at Genesis 2:17

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Spiritual growth absolutely necessitates an understanding of good and evil.

The good was: everlasting life on Earth forever.
The evil was: death - Genesis 2:17
All Adam had to do was step on a bug to see what death is.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

In the story of Adam and Eve, God forbids them to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It seems to imply that God did not want them to know good from evil. Why would that be? And does that strike you as not wanting them to spiritually grow?

Maybe by gaining the knowledge of good and evil, you actually create evil by defining its presence. Of course, if Eve never bite the apple, then sin would have never occurred, and there would be no knowledge of evil to speak of. At that time people only knew what was good from God's creation, hence why chapter 1 of Genesis always throw the word in "good" when God created something. But, when fate tempted Adam and Eve, they couldn't resist, and created sin for all men to bear.

(I am not a Christian but this is how I think most Christians would understand the beginnings of the Bible and the creation of sin story.)

 

[Wildswanderer]

Spiritual growth absolutely necessitates an understanding fo good and evil.

Jesus said to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.

 

[syo]

In the story of Adam and Eve, God forbids them to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It seems to imply that God did not want them to know good from evil. Why would that be? And does that strike you as not wanting them to spiritually grow?

Thank god Eve ate the fruit. I love her, gorgeous woman. And the snake the wise.

I met my husband because of their fall.

 

[Brian2]

But that is no the way the story is laid out. The knowledge of good and evil is contained within the rruit from that tree. If God wanted them to have a conscience, he would have allowed them to eat from that tree. I'm not the one who designed the story. I'm just reminding you how it worked.

God had already told them to not eat that fruit and if they ate it they would die. So God had already given them a conscience concerning eating the fruit by telling them about it and that is why they did not eat it.

 

[dybmh]

The narrative indicates “people” and a place called Nod where Cain finds a wife. A good detective would have issues with the story as presented.

Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.”

So Cain bore the tribal mark of his mothers people. In that age people didn’t wonder around alone in the world with no tribal mark!

Well..... are you sure that's what it says?

Let's look at it:

Gen 4:14

הֵן֩ גֵּרַ֨שְׁתָּ אֹתִ֜י הַיּ֗וֹם מֵעַל֙ פְּנֵ֣י הָֽאֲדָמָ֔ה וּמִפָּנֶ֖יךָ אֶסָּתֵ֑ר וְהָיִ֜יתִי נָ֤ע וָנָד֙ בָּאָ֔רֶץ וְהָיָ֥ה כָל־מֹֽצְאִ֖י יַֽהַרְגֵֽנִי

The part to focus on is at the end. "וְהָיָ֥ה כָל־מֹֽצְאִ֖י יַֽהַרְגֵֽנִי" It literally says "And it will be any find me will slay me". "כָל" is any, not anyone, just plain any. Making it a little more readable, we can add a word "that". So the phrase is "... and it will be any [that] find me will slay me." That's it. A person isn't specificied. Cain is saying "any" not anyone.

Gen 4:15 It's basically the same thing as in the previous verse.

וַיֹּ֧אמֶר ל֣וֹ יְהֹוָ֗ה לָכֵן֙ כָּל־הֹרֵ֣ג קַ֔יִן שִׁבְעָתַ֖יִם יֻקָּ֑ם וַיָּ֨שֶׂם יְהֹוָ֤ה לְקַ֨יִן֙ א֔וֹת לְבִלְתִּ֥י הַכּֽוֹת־אֹת֖וֹ כָּל־מֹֽצְאֽוֹ

​

"כָּל־הֹרֵ֣ג" - any [that] slay
"כָּל־מֹֽצְאֽוֹ" - any [that] find him


Gen 4:16, Cain "knew" his wife and they conceived... It didn't say he found a wife. Cain could have brought a wife with him? We're not told that Adam and Eve had no other children. Yes it would have been incest, but that's not uncommon for primitive people. There is a legit theory, in my opinion, that Cain and Abel had twin sisters. Legit enough not to make assumptions. See below:

Aclima - Wikipedia.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

................... At that time people only knew what was good from God's creation, hence why chapter 1 of Genesis always throw the word in "good" when God created something. But, when fate tempted Adam and Eve, they couldn't resist, and created sin for all men to bear......................)

Yes, they knew what was good, very good, from seeing creation surrounding them.
Not fate but by angelic fallen sinner Satan who tempted Eve but Adam was Not deceived - see 1 Timothy 2:14
Their created leanings were upright (good) so their righteous leanings allowed that they could resist if wanted.

 

[dybmh]

This is why I prefer not to post with you -- because you often put words in my mouth that are not there. For example, I did not say mankind was not made in God's image. My comment was limited to that Gen 1 is a completely separate creation myth from Gen 2-3.

Often? I can't remember the last time we've talked. When was that? How many years ago? It was pre-covid to my recollection. And even then, it's not like we debated or discussed frequently at all.

Anyway, I answered your question. I didn't put words in your mouth. You said "completely seperate", I pointed out what that would look like. I answered your question ignoring Gen 1 per your request. You don't like the answer, totally your choice.

 

[YoursTrue]

What I said was that in order for them to know right from wrong, they had to eat from the tree. With or without God's permission. That is the way the story is set up.

That is apparently what Eve thought after her conversation with the serpent. God told her (through Adam evidently) that IF she ate from that tree, she would -- do what?
Let's see what the Bible says.
"Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it. And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”
Genesis 2.
So let's try to look at it again. God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate it. So Adam had plenty to do. He also told him that he could eat freely from every tree of the garden except for the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Now let's see what can be discerned from this. What was Adam given to do in the Garden?

 

[YoursTrue]

So what did eating the fruit do? Nothing?

OK, I don't know what you have been taught about this, so I'll ask you the question after I quote the Biblical account as to what happened. (i.e., what did eating the fruit do?)
Genesis 2: "...the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it.16And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”
So what did God tell Adam would happen if he ate from that tree?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Anyway, I answered your question. I didn't put words in your mouth. You said "completely seperate", I pointed out what that would look like. I answered your question ignoring Gen 1 per your request. You don't like the answer, totally your choice.

You cannot mix up the two stories. You cannot pretend like they are connected.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

God had already told them to not eat that fruit and if they ate it they would die. So God had already given them a conscience concerning eating the fruit by telling them about it and that is why they did not eat it.

No, I'm sorry, I fervently disagree. A dog knows it needs to stay off the couch but that is not the same as a dog having moral sentience.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Adam and Eve were Not ignorant because they were educated informed by the words found at Genesis 2:17

A dog can know that it should not get on the couch. This is not the same as a dog having moral sentience.